From Lee H. Baucom's 'Save The Marriage':

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't Ask Yourself Whether You Are Still In Love.

Love is too often linked to emotion, not to action.

When we ask ourselves whether we are still in love, we end up wondering if we still have the emotional connection to the other person.

Unfortunately, even the action of questioning leads to more doubt,not less. When we raise the question, we begin to ponder the question. When we ponder the question, we can often create the answer.

So, instead of asking whether we love our spouse, it is much more useful to begin treating our spouse as if we do love him or her. As we treat someone 'as if' we often find the emotions once felt lacking, to be returning. The question needs to shift from 'do I still love(emotion) him/her?' to 'how do I love(action) him/her?'

The simple task of asking this question shifts our perspective. When our perspective shifts, the relationship shifts. The heart of improving a relationship is usually a shift in perspective. Rarely do people 'work' themselves to a better place. Instead we shift there.

Ask the question 'What can I do to show my love?' and here is the difficult part: we rarely have the best way of showing the other our love. Our actions usually come from an understanding of what lets us know that we are loved. And here, the specifics run against the Golden Rule: 'Do unto others as we would have them do unto us'. For this point, it may be rephrased: 'Show love to others as they wish to have love shown'.

We all have different ways of feeling loved and feeling accepted. The problem is that we usually assume the way we feel love is also the case for others. There are many, many ways to show and be shown love.

Some find love in words, others in touch, others in deeds, and still others in gifts. Within those broad means, there are many specifics. Our task, as lovers, is to discover how the other yearns to be loved. This is the learning task of any succesful relationship. Discover that and you discover the deepest yearnings of a spouse.

Why Not Emotions?

Unfortunately, we have all been raised in a culture that finds the romantic notion of love to be supreme. Sure, those emotions bond us together in the early days of a relationship. But emotions are not the 'North Star' of a relationship. Life can not be navigated based on the presence or absence of these feelings. The true North Star of a relationship is commitment, which is based in action, the 'doing' of a relationship. This sometimes entails continuing to love (action) someone in the absence of the feeling of love.

On a basic level, emotions are reactions in the chemistry lab of our bodies. Sure, they are wonderful when they are around, but the fact that they are missing doesn't indicate the death of a relationship. This is when the hard work begins.

Even more importantly, when the emotions are missing, we often try to find some way to recapture the emotions. This is a losing proposition. It moves from the wrong direction. Emotions are not a goal, but a side-effect (albeit quite pleasant) of the action of loving.

When one acts lovingly toward another, one naturally begins feeling more loving toward the other. Feelings follow action and not vice versa. More than that, most find it a losing proposition to try to 'make' themselves feel a certain way. It is easier and more effective to choose to act in a certain way. Anyone can 'make' themselves act in a chosen way. From that, feelings emerge almost without fail.

Many of us are aware of the fact that emotions ebb and flow in the life of a relationship. Even with this knowledge, we seem to forget it in the day to day life. When the emotions are missing, we begin to beleive 'I'm not in love anymore'. When, in actuality, the relationship is in an ebb patter. The flow, if allowed, will return. That simply is the nature of relationships when we don't interfere.

'So, What Should I Do?'

At this point, that may be the question you are asking. If emotions are a dead-end, and our first instinct is to show love the way we wished to be loved, you may be wondering, 'How do I show this person love?' Two answers: 1)Consider what the other person does(or did) to show love; 2)ASK!

Even if the two of you have lost the habit of treating each other in loving ways, you may have the opportunity to think back on how love was expressed to you earlier in the relationship, and particularly during periods where the feeling of love was evident. This can provide some clues on how the other person feels loved. If you show love in ways that love shown to you, you may discover the key to best showing love for that person.

And best of all, ASK the other person how to love him or her. Think to yourself, what would it be like to have your spouse ask you how you would like to be loved? Would that not be a powerful discussion? Would that not make you feel loved, even in just having that discussion?

One relationship trap is to assume that we must know what the other wants, or it isn't genuine. Mind reading is a high standard to hold another to. In fact, it has been the death of many relationships. Give up on thinking about what you or your spouse is 'supposed' to know, and concentrate on discovering what you and your spouse haven't known about each other.

Relationships can not be sustained on that illusion that the other should 'know' if it really is love. Instead, healthy relationships are all about discovery and growth. Make it your task to learn about the other, to discover their secrets. And don't trap yourself in expecting them to know your secrets. Share them. Seek to have your spouse share his or her secrets with you.

Discovering the secrets of each other lies at the very heart of a succesful relationship. It is a discovery unlike any other. This is a shift in understanding. It is the difference between seeing a marriage where both are on the same 'wavelength' to seeing marriage as a discovery of the other's wavelength.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds very MBish, doesn't it?

2muchcoffeeman,

BRAVO, this article is wonderful. It is very MBish. I want to run out and get this book right now. This has definetely helped my bad night out, THANK YOU. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TMCM

AWESOME POST! I REALLY NEEDED TO READ THIS TODAY AS IT IS THE 1 YEAR ANNIV. OF MY D-DAY (3-10-02)

THANKS

It's a wonderful book and very much in line with the MB principles. You can get the e-book at Save The Marriage.

Hey Blind Sided I'm glad that you are still around. I hope that everything is going great in your life.

I want to agree with this article soooooooo bad. But because of my experience I'm at the very least confused when I hear people talk like this.

I don't know if anyone participating in this discussion has read my post in the Emotional Needs section entitled "Is this advice really working?" (or something like that)

I mentioned that I did not marry my husband on the basis that I had these in love emotinal feelings, so all along I've been going through the motions and treating him with love but the feelings never followed. I've been married for 4 years now and we dated for 3 and a half years, so how long is it going to take for the feelings to follow. If you're asking why I ever married my husband (like everyone else) it's because he is a good man who loves the lord who treats me right and loves me. But for some reason I just never had those romantic love emotions/feelings for him. I remeber trying to have them but because of ideas like this article presents I assumed that they weren't neccessary to have a happy marriage.

So my intellect wants to agree with the article, and certainly I believe in committment because I promised myself that as long as the Lord doesn't allow another temptaion like I had recently and as long as He gives me strength to do the right thing I'm going to stay with my husband.

But I certainly feel like I've missed out. And I am very jealous of my other married friends who are experiencing passion and good sex and luvy duvy feelings for their mates.

Let me just ask this question. How come when we have these feelings for our spouse, it's called love, but if we develop these feelings for someone else while we're married then it is called infactuation?

Could it be true that it is possible to have true love for someone else without it being infactuation and that's why we should take certain precautions so that it won't happen and if it does happen it's still the right thing not to act on them because you would ruin your family and even the friendship with the other person?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let me just ask this question. How come when we have these feelings for our spouse, it's called love, but if we develop these feelings for someone else while we're married then it is called infactuation?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your H made vows of exclusivity with you and God to demonstrate his true love for you. What vows of exclusivity has the OM made to you that would make you beleive that he truly loved you?

Infatuation is only transitory. Don't beleive me? just look around and see how many of those other couples(that started their relationships and marriages, head over heels in love with each other) have cooled down their feelings for each other significantly? It would probably be safe to say over 90% of them have.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could it be true that it is possible to have true love for someone else without it being infactuation and that's why we should take certain precautions so that it won't happen and if it does happen it's still the right thing not to act on them because you would ruin your family and even the friendship with the other person?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I see is that maybe you beleive that your emotional needs would be better served by someone else who is partially fulfilling them when your H has not.

True love is NOT an emotional state, it is the product of an action called COMMITMENT.

I'd would humbly suggest that you read the article a couple of times more, until you see that relying on your emotions to dictate your course of action, is a recipe for disaster.

<small>[ March 11, 2003, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: 2MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Here's another passage from 'Save the Marriage':

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When The Emotions Are Missing.

Sometimes, the emotions just seem to have escaped you. You may feel completely incapable of feeling love, passion, or any other emotion toward your spouse.

I have good news for you! There are some specific things you can do to get back in touch with those missing emotions. However, the first thing you must do is to commit to sticking in there. As I said in the last lesson, asking the question of whether you still love someone completely misses the action part of being loving.

But more dangerously, asking that question continues the loss of emotion. You can become so focused on the lack of feelings that you miss the opportunities to rediscover the feelings.

Reconnecting With The Emotions.

Here are severak specific strategies for moving towards the feelings.

1. Remember that at their essence, feelings and emotions are cyclical, somewhat like the tide. They move in and move out. And there are some extremely hight tides and low tides. But, sure as the pull of gravity, low tide moves to high tide, and vice versa.

So, when feelings are low, instead of getting concerned, choose to wait. Soon, the feelings will move in a more positive direction.

Don't get too caught up in wondering why this the case. Just accept that it is the case, and move forward. Sometimes, a change of emotion is as simple as waiting for the emotions to change on their own.

2.Choose to be playful. When people begin to feel less loving and warm toward their spouse, their first reaction is to retract, get serious, and work hard to change the feeling.'

This ends up being particularly counterproductive. Few relationships rediscover the passion by working harder. Usually, the working harder is what caused some of the loss of passion in the first place.

So try to find some activities that might be lighter. Take up a new hobby together. Go for walks, hikes, camping, trips, etc., together. Perhaps you can think of the things that used to make you laugh together - take that skinny dip the pool, sneak away for a dessert together, whatever it was. Remember it and do it again.

3.Remind yourselves of how the relationship started. When I am with a couple that seems to have lost their warmth toward each other, I often ask them a simple question: "Tell me about how your relationship started". Suddenly, their whole demeanor changes.

Where once, they were critical of each other, they suddenly find loving eyes (both metaphorically and in reality). The room is transformed from one of coldness and distance to warmth.

Is this connection fleeting? Often, it is. But it reconnects the couple to a feeling they have forgotten how to have. Sometimes, they just need to be reminded that the feelings are still there, even though they are buried.

4.I saved the most powerful method for last.

Psychology has long known that we create some of our reality. We unknowingly have a grea deal of control over our perception of reality and situations.

The secret is known as 'Acting as if...' Here, is how it works: imagine what you would be doing if you felt differently, and act as if that feeling is there. If you were feeling loving toward your spouse, what would you be doing? How would you be looking at him/her, acting toward him/her, responding to him/her? Do those things.

The amazing thing about this technique is it works in so many areas. When someone is talking to you (spouse included) about something with which you are not interested, act as if you are interested. I'll guarantee that within 5 minutes, you really will become interested.

When you are feeling down or depressed, act as if you were happy and joyful, even forcing a smile. Within 5 minutes, your feelings will shift away from depressed and towards joyful.

This powerful trick can dramatically transform a relationship. Your task is to discover the many ways you can 'act as if...' in your relationship. Your relationship will be transformed because you have discovered a method of transforming your feelings toward the relationship.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Let me just ask this question. How come when we have these feelings for our spouse, it's called love, but if we develop these feelings for someone else while we're married then it is called infactuation?

Your H made vows of exclusivity with you and God to demonstrate his true love for you. What vows of exclusivity has the OM made to you that would make you beleive that he truly loved you?

la....That does not answer her question. You don't marry someone the first second you become aware of their existence. You develop a relationship first, to see if you fit, to see if they are worthy, to assess capacity (ability to bond in a healthy manner), and so forth. That process is independent of ones marital status. There is no functional reason why you cannot develop those kinds of feelings for someone other than a spouse, is no different than dating someone and finding out you have different feelings for someone else, or engaged to someone and finding out you have different feelings for someone else. The problem is if you are "married" why would you develop feelings for someone else (does it mean you married the wrong person?), and of course what to do about the feelings (either deny them alltogether, or process them and see what that means for your marriage). But trying to have both relationships (an affair) is not going to work.

...Infatuation is only transitory. Don't beleive me? just look around and see how many of those other couples(that started their relationships and marriages, head over heels in love with each other) have cooled down their feelings for each other significantly? It would probably be safe to say over 90% of them have.

la...By definition feelings which do not persist, or lead to good outcomes are "infatuation". The point being making lifelong decsions (marriage, or affairs) based strictly on initial feelings of attraction (before you know the individual well enough to validate the infatuation with long term respect and attraction) is not a good idea. What happens too often is people enter relationships (of all kinds) for shallow reasons, and wonder why the marriage, affair, live-in bf/gf fail. They haven't done their homework very well.

lj, by your admission you did this a bit. You married your H because he met a laundary list of things you thought made a good mate...but you did not assess how well you fit psychologically. I wonder how much dating/life experience you had before marrying, so you could know yourself well enough, as well as assess the nature of potential mates.

....Could it be true that it is possible to have true love for someone else without it being infactuation and that's why we should take certain precautions so that it won't happen and if it does happen it's still the right thing not to act on them because you would ruin your family and even the friendship with the other person?

...What I see is that maybe you beleive that your emotional needs would be better served by someone else who is partially fulfilling them when your H has not.

la...This gets tricky. Using the "needs" model anyone can meet anyone elses needs. So indeed you do all the work so your spouse can meet all your needs, and avoid letting others meet your needs. However, this is just a model, and we are not robots. Nor do humans function only this way. If they did it would not make any difference who we married, just marry someone, exchange out laundary list of needs, and live happily ever after. Fact is, we all know intrinsically it matters who we attempt the intimacy of a marital relationship with, it matters ALOT. So it is not just about identifying needs and asking someone to meet them. IMO we are all unique human beings, each with out own psychology, temperament, desires and so forth. Every other human being will fit those things to one degree or another...all the way from almost no fit at all....to the other end where we become one, and have no interest in anyone else (are affair proof) cause no one else could meet our needs any better than our spouse.

For those who think love is only a verb, and does not include fit issues, simply think about all the people you know, and how many of them would you want to be married to, even if they met your needs? As for your question lj, if you find yourself feeling things for someone else, you should not act on them until and unless your life (and theirs if applicable) is in order to do so. One of the more difficult and angst feeled life experiences to pass through is being radically honest about ones marital relationship, and finding the courage to act on that honesty. Be it staying in one, or leaveing one, there is a lot at stake.....but it is even worse to avoid the decision and stay/leave because one did not do the work required to know who you are, and what you want from life.

....True love is NOT an emotional state, it is the product of an action called COMMITMENT.

la...love without feelings is nothing more than a contract. It is a way to live, but in my book is not a desireable way to live. IMO True love is not a decision, it arises from how well two people see each other, what that means in terms of feelings, capacity to be vulnerable and transparent (has to do with personality traits, many can never go there), and a lot of other things we partially assess by feelings (such as feeling safe with someone), the committment follows from this. To make a committment without the other is a recipe for resentment, and unhappiness.

You cannot make yourself love someone, your feeling side (which is of vital importance to our well-being or we wouldn't have feelings), won't allow it. But you can decide to care, and you can talk yourself into substituting the caring for true love, and that is what this author (and others) promote...sort of a self imposed mindset, accept what you have (regardless of how you got there) and make the best of it. That is not necessarily a bad approach..but first you should take advantage of our most important human ability, capacity for change, and decide whether you want to do this in the relationship you are in....you can't properly assess that until you understand the nature of human relationships. You may decide (after applying radical honesty), you do not want to do that in the marriage you are in (for many healthy reasons), that is not a happy decision to reach but it often is an honest one.

...I'd would humbly suggest that you read the article a couple of times more, until you see that relying on your emotions to dictate your course of action, is a recipe for disaster.

la...This is the conundrum, few here would say they did not rely on emotions to get married, but now we are not supposed to rely on emotions? How does that work? The fact is emotions play an integral role in our lives in all areas, there is no reason to assume they are useless in assessing our marital circumstances. However, one should not make decisions purely by emotion, one should apply reason too, to see what exactly our emotions are telling us. Likewise we should not make decisions purely by reason (like lj did), we can talk/rationalize ourselves into anything, that is the danger of ignoring emotions. There are plenty of people here who have denied their emotions for years, fiercely "decideing" to be married, only to find out it was all a sham in the end as the marriages self-destruct, or become wastelands just surviving.

The fact is clear, just being married to whatever stranger crossed your path at some point in your life, does not gaurantee this is how you should live your entire life, it is very easy (and common) to make marital judgement errors (just like all the errors people can make)...and it very much does matter who you are married to...and all the techniques in the world are not going to change that....but they will help you settle, maybe, if all your effort is reciprocated some. What can happen though, is sometimes it is a good fit, and fixable behavioural issues are present. And upon repairing those, people discover the passion, and the true love (we speak of) can blossom. Each has to decide for themself (if that is not present) when to give up, accept the reality, and either settle for practical reasons (money, kids, social approval, fear of being alone, etc.)...or diovrce, sadder, but wiser for future intimacy.

If feelings weren't important than divorce would be no big deal. All the talk about hurt, and such would be just refiuted withn ignore your emotions, just decide to be happy. Further people just marry someone else and deicde to love them. Love as a decison (no emotional component) is nonsensical, that is not how humans live. I suppose it would make life easier if we were "allowed" to get married based on an emotional assessment of our desire, but then could turn off that inside us, and just "decide" we are happy (with this particular partner)...but then we wouldn't be human beings.

<small>[ March 11, 2003, 08:04 AM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Your H made vows of exclusivity with you and God to demonstrate his true love for you. What vows of exclusivity has the OM made to you that would make you beleive that he truly loved you?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I never said I believed this other man truly loved me. I was never actually in an affair but I was honestly on the verge of one. There were times though when I thought he may have felt the same way about me. Just the way he would act sometimes the eye contact, the hugs etc. I caught him staring at me a couple of times and I tried to play it off. If he did feel the same way, neither one of us verbalized it. But, I know that he loves the Lord and would like to think that he respected me to the point where he refused to let anything inappropriate happen between us and ruin a good friendship. The friendship was real though, it wasn't a fantasy and not only did I see lot's of things about him that I loved I also saw some things that I didn't like.

And it's not like I saw him, thought he was cute and became infatuated with him. I have plenty of male friends and associates that I think are quite handsome but I never developed the kind of feelings for them that I did for this person. And it's not like our growing friendship was seclusive and a big secret. I was apart of a group and I was growing close to everybody in that group including him. If I had of known that I would feel this way I cetainly wouldn't have began a friendship with him

So, I can't be sure he felt the same way, but the point is I have never had those feelings for my husband even after dating him for 3 and a half years before marriage and being married to him for 4 years.

I know love is more than just feelings so I'm not arguing that point. But in the past when I've read articles like this one, it led me to believe that these feelings weren't important because it was just infatuation and that's why I married my husband in spite of those lack of feelings. But I'm convinced now that those feelings are the beginning of love and if given the chance it can grow and be more than just infatuation. And I'm scared to death that I will never experience being in a relationship where those feelings exist between both me and my mate.

lj

P.S.

You didn't address my question about "How long it takes for the feelings to follow?" Remember I've been with my husband for over 7 years in total now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I'm convinced now that those feelings are the beginning of love and if given the chance it can grow and be more than just infatuation. And I'm scared to death that I will never experience being in a relationship where those feelings exist between both me and my mate.

lj</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Those feelings are the beginning of infatuation NOT love. But don't take my word for it, because most of the FWS here said the same thing when they were knee deep in their A's. But once they ended their A's and came out of withdrawl, they saw that what they beleived was love was nothing more than infatuation.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">P.S.

You didn't address my question about "How long it takes for the feelings to follow?" Remember I've been with my husband for over 7 years in total now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd like to answer you question with another question: Have you implemented Dr Willard Harley, Michelle Weiner Davis, or Dr Lee H. Baucom's principles?

If you are waiting for those feelings to magically appear without applying yourself to strategies designed to help develop those feelings, your chances of ever experiencing them are very bleak and THAT IS scary.

<small>[ March 11, 2003, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: 2MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you implemented Dr Willard Harley, Michelle Weiner Davis, or Dr Lee H. Baucom's principles?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Answer: Yes I believe so. I mentioned earlier (I think it was under this topic) that even when we were just dating I was doing the things a good girlfriend would do, going through the motions. Of course I didn't know what Dr. Harley's principles were then, but I specifically remember doing special things for Him in an attempt to experience romance, but that feeling never came. Even now since I've discovered this website, I've been making attempts to concentrate on my marriage by practicing these principals.

So to make a long story short the answer to your question is yes. Practicing the right thing to do has only help me cope, but I don't feel any different.

One more question. In your opinion how does love begin? Are you saying that you have to committ to someone first and act like you love them by doing the right things before you know that you truly love them and then feelings will come?

If so then we shouldn't date anyone that we have those "feelings" for because it only leads to infatuation. In that case, I didn't make a mistake like I think I did. I did the right thing by marrying someone I didn't neccessarily have those feelings for.

I don't question if I love my husband, I care about him and wouldn't wish any harm on him, but I just know I've never experienced a passionate sexual desire for him. That's why I find it so hard to give myself sexually to him and that's what is causing some of the frustration in our marriage. We've always been good friends. As a matter of fact if sex wasn't an issue in marriage I would probably consider myself a happily married women. That's why it's easy for me to believe that I would have been more happy with this other person because our friendship had most of the elements that me and my husband have, it's just that he had the things in him that I've always desired in a man when it comes to sexual desire.

And I'm not just discovering that I wanted these things, but like I told rjd I thought the Lord was telling me "No, you can't have everything you want. I have something else for you." But now I'm realizing that I could have waited maybe a few more years and maybe I would have found someone who it wouldn't be so hard to give myself sexually to (FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE).

So, that's the angle I'm coming from.

lj

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lj:
One more question. In your opinion how does love begin? Are you saying that you have to committ to someone first and act like you love them by doing the right things before you know that you truly love them and then feelings will come?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let me ask you this, can a person under the influence of drugs or alcohol be trusted to make sound decisions? Of course not, and by the same token, when we develop strong feelings of sexual attraction for another person, our perception of reality becomes clouded. We ARE in a fog of our own, almost identical to the WS's fog for the OP. It is so strong that, in some cases, people have even fallen head over heels with sociopaths. How can we trust that we would be making a sound decision in marrying somebody that we are so sexually intoxicated with? Is it any wonder that the vast majority of A's end, despite the WS being so 'in love' with the OP? Why do at least half the marriages end up in divorce, despite the fact that the vast majority of the people in them started so head over heels in love with each other?

When you truly love somebody, you are not only aware of that person's wonderful qualities, you are also very much aware of his/her serious shortcomings. You don't gloss over his/her faults with excuses in order to justify your love for him/her. You know that you could probably find somebody else, yet you make the commitment to share your life with that person, despite all of his/her faults. With Love, we sacrifice, with lust we do not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If so then we shouldn't date anyone that we have those "feelings" for because it only leads to infatuation. In that case, I didn't make a mistake like I think I did. I did the right thing by marrying someone I didn't neccessarily have those feelings for.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't beleive that you shouldn't date somebody that you have a physical attraction for, as long as you are honest with yourself and do not let those feelings of attractions deceive you into beleiving something that may not be real.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't question if I love my husband, I care about him and wouldn't wish any harm on him, but I just know I've never experienced a passionate sexual desire for him. That's why I find it so hard to give myself sexually to him and that's what is causing some of the frustration in our marriage. We've always been good friends. As a matter of fact if sex wasn't an issue in marriage I would probably consider myself a happily married women. That's why it's easy for me to believe that I would have been more happy with this other person because our friendship had most of the elements that me and my husband have, it's just that he had the things in him that I've always desired in a man when it comes to sexual desire.

And I'm not just discovering that I wanted these things, but like I told rjd I thought the Lord was telling me "No, you can't have everything you want. I have something else for you." But now I'm realizing that I could have waited maybe a few more years and maybe I would have found someone who it wouldn't be so hard to give myself sexually to (FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE).

So, that's the angle I'm coming from.

lj</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You make the assumption that the passionate feelings of sexual attraction will endure, and that unfortunately is not the reality of human relationships. If you don't beleive me, just ask any married man or woman, if the passion of the beginning of their relationship is still there, and chances are that the vast majority will answer you with an definite no.

Your attraction to this OM is very much like the new-car-syndrome. In the beginning you are so head over heels happy with your brand new vehicle that you can't imagine being driving another. That is until, the mechanical breakdowns start to appear, somebody puts a ding on the side of it when you are not around, you start skipping on washing it every week, and you start noticing that the gas mileage is not the great. And so the same would probably happen with this OM that you feel so much sexual attraction for, and what you thought was love for him, was nothing more than lust.

What would you do if you married this OM, but with time, you loose the strong sexual attraction you had for him, and another man appeared in your life that stirred those same passionate feelings? Are you then going to leave your cold flame OM for the new hot flame OM? See if you let your feelings of sexual attraction direct your course of actions, you will perpetually going from man to man. Is that what you wish?

<small>[ March 12, 2003, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: 2MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Ok Coffeeman.

Trust me, I know what you are saying and it makes perfect sense. But I don't think I'm getting my point across.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do at least half the marriages end up in divorce, despite the fact that the vast majority of the people in them started so head over heels in love with each other?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lj: Well, it was my understanding from the information on this website that people turn to divorce because their EN's are no longer being met. So if they once felt a certain way about eachother and they don't anymore the solution would be to concentrate on meeting eachothers needs. So if I was married to this OM and the passion died I would just follow the "steps" to regain it, right? Maybe I'm just misunderstanding something, but I've been told more than once that this is possible.

But that's not what I'm talking about. My problem is not re-gaining passion that I lost, my problem is that I never had it in the first place.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When you truly love somebody, you are not only aware of that person's wonderful qualities, you are also very much aware of his/her serious shortcomings. You don't gloss over his/her faults with excuses in order to justify your love for him/her. You know that you could probably find somebody else, yet you make the commitment to share your life with that person, despite all of his/her faults. With Love, we sacrifice, with lust we do not.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lj: You are also making assumptions about me. I understand this statement completely and I believe it. I will not argue with it one bit. But why are you assuming that I didn't know this OM and that if we met and became friends when I was not married that I would overlook his faults and that I would not committ to him like I have committed to my husband?

I just want you to understand that I will never justify myself having an affair this is why when I finally admitted to my self that I was developing feelings for this OM (I denied it completely at first) I made the appropriate choices (with God's help of course, because there were times I did not want to do the right thing at all) to prevent anything from happening.

All I was trying to say from my first post on this topic is that I think I would rather be in a more ideal situation where the passionate feelings were mutual, because my husband does have those "in love" feelings for me. We also have married friends who have those feelings for eachother,(married just as long as us, some a little longer and some a little less).

Yes it probably is rare, but if it's possible at all why can't more people experience this, including me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't beleive that you shouldn't date somebody that you have a physical attraction for, as long as you are honest with yourself and do not let those feelings of attractions deceive you into beleiving something that may not be real.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">lj: Once again, I totally agree. But please don't assume that I am believing something that is not real because the friendship was real. I just shouldn't have let myself get so close, but then again, I couldn't see it coming because like I said I was growing close to everyone in this particular group (men and women).

lj

Lj from reading your posts, I thought I was talking with somebody that was a prime candidate for an A. So many WS still in the fog have said many of the same things you did and that was the reason why I was trying to bring forth my point about NOT relying on strong feelings of sexual attraction to be the sole determining factor in chosing a mate. I'm glad that you were able to avoid walking that slippery slope that WS's often travel because they did not observe boundaries to protect them from an A. But I'm saddened that you find yourself in this situation, for your H may eventually perceive your problem and then it may become a moot point if he makes the decision to end the M.