I have realized that I have been focussing WAY TOO MUCH on itemizing what is wrong with my H, so that I don't feel as bad about myself for cheating on him.

I have also realized that his calling me condascending and high-fallootin' is probably accurate. I was getting fed up and impatient with having to wait for him to make up his mind, and in the back of my mind was always a list of what's wrong with him, and to be honest I was being sarcastic and snarky with him when I didn't need to be.

My new plan? I want to save my marriage more than I want to be right. I am simply going to focus my efforts on being nice to my H. It's already seeming to have positive effects. I've gotten to spend some time with him, and we've had some real conversations in the last few days. The first one came with a phone call at 4 am, one that I am glad that I answered.

Oh and other good news. On the topic of his drinking, he only drank on Friday and Sunday of this weekend. Before that, he drank last Saturday. He said to me yesterday he has decided to take control of his life again, and not drink as much (no more drinking on weekdays). This is very good to hear.

The only thing that gives me pause right now is this: I've asked my H what he needs from me to feel comfortable spending more time with me. His reply was that he doesn't know, he just has a sick feeling in his stomach all the time about the state of his life (this mess with me, his mom's depression over being widowed, his father not being there for him anymore). We got on the topic of how long we've been separated, and that led to him saying he may not decide what he wants until the end of the summer, b/c if anyone puts pressure on him that makes him want to run the other way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So he needs me to be nice and patient. It's so hard but I'm going to suck it up and do it, even though I want him back and I want him back now.

I guess it's appropriate to be making some progress before typing post #1000!

Jen

Jen not sure how your affair ended (discovered or mutally ended) but its not a lengthy one...three weeks really is not the major betrayal of a full blown affair.

It is however with a close friend which makes it a tougher pill to swallow.

Is your husband a very moral person hence he cannot get over the affair?

Or is he a judgemental instead also making it hard for him to get over the affair?

I know you want to save your marriage but he too must want to. Staying with another woman, telling you he doesn't want to be pressured bothers me somewhat in that he sounds like trying to have it both ways.

How do you view the other woman? Is she someone he would have a genuine attraction too? Or is she someone he can use against by saying ha ha I'm having an affair too?

Yes you are going to have to reassure him you will not have another affair and work on the trust issue.

But geuss what he has to too.

He is afraid you may stray again so he is countering with the threat that he might leave you. Detante maybe built on "mutually assured destruction" to avoid nuclear war but I am pretty sure the stame strategy will not work in repairing a marriage.

You have to have some sort of boundary in order to move forward.

IF asking for an exclusive relationship is not what you are comfortable with then how about some designated time together....hate to make it sound like a custody agreement but perhaps that is the best comparison.

Let him sleep on the couch or the spare bedroom but at least try to get him back into the marriage so you can show him rather than tell him how much you want to make things work...doesn't have to involve sex but you have to start having regular contact to rebuild things.

Perhaps simple excerises like listing what was right about your marriage. Or what you like about him. I know it was great help for wayward wife to talk about all the positive things not only in our marriage but about me too.

Sometimes security is gained when you realize that you have something unique to offer your partner that NOBODY else can. We all have sex organs, bank accounts, possessions etc but if there is one thing about him that is unique that you can't live without then he knows that cannot be taken from him. That in turns gives him some security...the other stuff is so competitive that he might always be insecure by say a rich guy or a GQ model type....but if there something only he has to offer then those things don't matter.

Talk about what made you two fall in love. Assure him its still there for you.

In short TALK to him as often as you can including making him come around you on specific times so you can talk.

Keep it positive and keep sentimental....those things you can offer him and maintain your own sense of self worth.

<small>[ April 14, 2003, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: stunned-dad ]</small>

Jen,

I hope you get a chance to read my response on your feeling guilty again thread in recovery. Hopefully it will explain more clearly my intent and perspective.

I would appreciate any feedback.

ayslyne

Jen,

I think that you changing your focus is a good idea. I think it's time and it will change things. You both have seemed "stuck" for so long. Good Luck and keep up your good work!

---
I'm the FWW

Sounds encouraging, Jen. Perhaps now you are on the right track.

Almost There

s-d:
- He would like to think he's a very moral person; he was raised in a very Christian family. However, our attendance of church as a couple decreased steadily over the course of our marriage.
- He is also perhaps quite judgemental.
- He still claims that both of the other women (his 2 female friends, he refuses to have male friends now after being betrayed by his best friend, and the only males he will spend time with are his brothers) are just friends. He thinks it's okay that he had the one female friend sleep over in our bed the night his father died b/c I was not there for him (I was out of town). I was back by noon the next day!
- He doesn't have a genuine attraction to these women in my opinion, but he sure likes the attention and admiration he gets from them. Also, it would seem that they do what he wants when he wants pretty much.
- They are women he can use to say, see, look how well they treat me. I could have another woman in a heartbeat.
- I would LOVE some designated time together, but he's making me feel as though if I put pressure on him to spend time with me, he'll run the other way.
- I'm with you on the talking and listing good things strategy. Well on my way in fact.

ayslyne, I've read the post you put on the other thread, but don't have time to reply right now. Later tonight I will hopefully.

One thought I had today: If he's suggesting he doesn't plan to make a decision until the end of summer, I forsee that he is testing me AGAIN. Summer for us as teachers means 2 months off. I wonder if he plans to basically ignore me and see if I still hang around town and go no where (and prove he can control me), and if I do, he'll take me back. Just a negative thought I had at the end of the day. If he's going to put off making his decision, but refuses to spend time with me in the summer when we have oodles of opportunity to spend time together and work on our relationship, I don't know what I'll do. I'd like to think I'd tell him tough luck buddy if that's his preference, but then I may end up single.

Why oh why does he need so much time? I assume it's because he is so busy with his family right now in the aftermath of his father's death. However, he also has said many times how much he likes living alone. He said if he didn't have a sex drive or a desire to have children, he may not even consider remaining married. Gee whiz!

Jen

ayslyne - I posted to you on the other thread.

One other thought on my H's remark about not deciding until end of summer....he's famous for not wanting to actively make decisions for himself. He's perhaps hoping for some sort of divine intervention to help him choose. Or he's hoping that I will just tell him finally I've had enough, I'm not waiting any more, I file for Dv, so he can go on and live his life guilt free and tell everyone forevermore that I left him.

Right now I'm stewing over the fact that he still tells me to stay away from his mother. I don't want to, I love her and feel bad that I've not been to see her or haven't talked to her in a month. At first I took some time away from her b/c every time I went to see her I'd end up an emotional wreck. Then he started asking me not to go near her so I'd stop getting her hopes up, she had enough stress and pain to deal with. But if I do go near her without his blessing, he may use that against me.

Fine, I'm being a drama queen again. I'm playing up my victim role. Whack me with an MB 2x4 if you're feeling high and mighty. But if you simply have a few thoughts on what I've posted, let me know. I'll read past the other crap, and take note of those kinds of posts.

Jen

Jen sounds like our stories or just about the same, especially our H's too.

Goldielocks, I have to be honest, I have real trouble seeing how they are the same, beyond my H having some alcoholic tendancies, and being somewhat controlling.

He has not cheated on me, he has not moved in with another woman, he has not made me pick him up at the bar numerous times, he does not ask me for money....

Sorry to sound almost condascending, but I think I've got a slightly more stable, less hurtful H than you at the moment.

What similarities were you thinking of?

Jen

Sorry Goldie, I just read your other thread. I guess another commonality is your fear of losing the good relationship you have with your inlaws. However, as one poster said, with your kids, you will probably be able to maintain a good relationship with them. At least your H hasn't told you to stay away from them, has he?

Jen

Jen,

Sensing a bito anger there. Howz about if you make sure he doesn't use up your Jen time off this summer in a fruitless attempt to control you but making you hang around waiting for him to do what amounts to nothing more than hurtful acts?

Go out and accomplish something this summer, big or little, just something that brings you a happy memory or joy.

You have great abilities Jen, don't let your H take that away from you.

No 2 x 4 here, just a small voice of support from the west side of the country.

take care,
L.

Perhaps he's not going to use summer to test me as I guessed. Perhaps you're right Orchid. Maybe he's going to lead me to believe he is using the summer to decide, and in the process get me to sit on my duff at home and take no vacation whatsoever, making sure I don't get to enjoy this summer if he doesn't.

However, I feel a little vicious typing that last sentence. He said he's going nowhere (not taking a vacation this summer) because he is going to need to spend time with his mom.

I wish I could feel like I can trust him again. Yes you heard right folks, I'm a FWS wondering if and when she can trust her BS again. Either as a defence mechanism or just to be vengeful, he's no longer completely honest with me about his feelings. I'm not sure if he's being genuine and needs time to decide, or if he's just abusing his power over me and taking his sweet time to decide, or if (and this is my biggest fear) he's already decided he can't be married to me, but still wants to see me now and again for sex.

Hmmmm.

Jen

Jen:

"Yes you heard right folks, I'm a FWS wondering if and when she can trust her BS again."

You won't be the first FWS to wonder this. My W has said that many times. I'm not always able to figure out what it means, but I'm working on it.

-Qfwfq

Well Q, I can tell you what it means for me.

I wonder if I should trust him when he says he is still considering taking me back.

I wonder if he is telling me the truth, b/c he has lied to me several times, and some of them were intentionally hurtful lies at that. One example was when he made up the story about dating and sleeping with another woman, back in Nov. or Dec.

Just because I hurt him and lied to him during my A, he seems to think I deserve the same treatment. The lies have decreased, but I still caught him in one just a couple of weeks ago. I wonder if he'll continue this way forever, or go back to being the man I loved.

I also wonder if I can trust him to treat me like his equal ever again, instead of treating me like the infidel who must kiss his a$$ forever.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just because I hurt him and lied to him during my A, he seems to think I deserve the same treatment. The lies have decreased, but I still caught him in one just a couple of weeks ago.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen I hate to say but that is exactly how he should feel wanting to hurt you back. Its not right BUT it is normal.

The old saying what is good for the goose is good for the gander is what he is thinking. Childish but I suspect every BS thinks of having a revenge affair at one point or another....few actually act on it but some do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder if he'll continue this way forever, or go back to being the man I loved.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jen neither of you can go back....you both can go forward but you can't turn back the hands of time.

An affair is a life altering experiencing so you both are now different people with different life experiences than the two people that married years ago.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> wonder if I should trust him when he says he is still considering taking me back.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In this regard perhaps he is playing on you hoping to show you what is like to wonder whether the other spouse will be there in the future.

My biggest concern is how does he feel about the other woman? Perhaps he is trying to decide if he still loves you....but it also could be an exit affair...translated he doesn't want to leave until he has someone to leave to.

<small>[ April 16, 2003, 11:57 PM: Message edited by: stunned-dad ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My biggest concern is how does he feel about the other woman? Perhaps he is trying to decide if he still loves you....but it also could be an exit affair...translated he doesn't want to leave until he has someone to leave to. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yikes, this sounds a little like the possibility mentioned on my new thread about dating...that he's not willing to be seen in public with me b/c he doesn't want the female friend of his to know we're spending time together. It's like he wants to spend time with both of us so he can feel free to choose one.

I wish I could tell him my theory. I feel like it may be a bad idea to do so though. What do you think?

The little devil on my left shoulder says phone the "OW" (she is supposedly still just his friend) and ask her if she's aware of me and my H spending time together like we do. This would ENRAGE my H though, so I dare not do it.

I guess a compromise is I could ask him if he has made it clear to her that he and I are in contact and are still sleeping together. BUT he may just lie to me anyway....

Jen

Okay, my sick little mind is having the following fantasy:

I'm over at MY house (my H's house) and my H and I have just finished being intimate, and he's in the shower and "OW" calls. I answer! She asks for my H, I say oh he's just getting dressed, can I take a message?

LOL!

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Bumping up because the thoughts on this thread are starting to overlap with the other thread......if you're going to reply to one, maybe you should read the other.....

Sorry,

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Well do you still a friends you can trust that run in your husband's circles?

Perhaps they could find out for you without you being dragged into it.

Not an option. The one female friend that we are both still in contact is clearly his friend first and mine second. There are no other friends on his part.

JB