Good question tewjtm.
I think their are cases that some people just marry badly and it was a mistake from the start. Mostly it is people who are too immature and/or naive to know what marriage involves and the compromises that must be made for the marriage to last. When one walks out without doing all you can to try to see if that marriage can be salvaged instead of taking the easy road then I think that it is clear who the immature/naive one was in this case. (Sorry, but him moving back in with wife for a few months as you moved into as you stated "OUR HOME" was in NO WAY him working on his marriage, you can NEVER work on a relationship 100% if you have a 3rd party on the side, and stop trying to convince yourselves he did...HE DIDN'T, plain and simple). The only thing that him moving back home did was give his ex-wife false hope, then he leaves and automatically moved in with you. You don't know what that does to a person's self image and self-love. Your FMM made choices that effected his ex-wife's life, she is showing him that she isn't making anymore changes in her life just because it's easier for him. She no doubt had to make changes with caring for their child, now so will he. He is not a victim.

ark,
the thing is the seperation/rationalization of getting involved with a married man...regardless of the shape of the marriage....is not to be glossed over....

I never did. We spent many hours debating this issue. He was not a cake eater or a fence sitter. He had already moved out. As I stated he had a son - that even though he paid CS from day one he rarely saw. He was young and naive and didn't realize he had rights beyond what the bio mom allocated to him. He has since filed and legitimated the son and we have visits w/ him also.

FWS don't become reformed...they come to believe that the initial committment has greater meaning than their actions stated...and even if that committment is to be terminated they have enough respect for the person...(even regardless of the other spouses behavior to terminate the marriage before breaking vows)

Well in an ideal world, yes. However, they both broke these ideals.

So many OP...act as if their involvement with a WS has nothing to do with the BS or their life..but it is their actions that as well as the WS actions that cause great harm to a person and a family...they are active participants hurting another person...based on their actions and choices...

I agree to a degree. I am not new to MB. I used to post under another name. I post at gloryb as femalsargeant. I am sure you have no desire to do so, however, a research of my old posts would reveal the stress and guilt i faced during the EMR.

What really kills me though is the attitude that she or he should just get over it...I mean who are you (or anyone else) to tell anyone else how to deal with their pain...and pain that you actively participated in creating...

I don't advocate she "just get over it". We all heal in our own imeframe. I am not over the fact that my daughter's father owes me over $4000.00 in CS. However, one has to set the anger aside and do what is best for his or her own child/ren.

So he was seperated from her...with you?..and she got pregnant...
you are the one painting the picture of someone who just doesnt seem to get the big picture of committment....

I disagree, but I know him and you do not.

Are you two married? If not why not...if you are why...

We are engaged. I have waited on marriage as I wantd us both to be sure. I also wanted us to live togethere at least a year first. Now, we have. We want to marry on a day when both kids are w/ us. We are looking at 9/6. We will know for sure next month.

tew this is really not me..I rarely if ever have "gone after a poster"...and I apologize for it...

I don't feel attacked. I come here to learn. I also come to get ideas. Feel free to respomd. I do not attack, nor will I. I just like to get an opinion from all sides.

It's just that people just keep pushing the envelope of demeaning vows, making marriages more and more disposable...so much under the guise of everyones else is doing it...and they just weren't happy...and it was mistake...ugghhh
it makes me nut...

So, what is your history? Is your story posted here at MB? tew

Tew,

My parents divorce was final in 1971. My father left the family to be with OW and OC. HE then left OW for another woman, then another and another.

It's 32 years later and my mother is still mad at OW #1.

Some people just can't let it go.

tryingto,
In retrospect, perhaps you are right. I do believe the real reason he tried was to be around the baby. The day to day stuff you miss when not in the home.

Your FMM made choices that effected his ex-wife's life, she is showing him that she isn't making anymore changes in her life just because it's easier for him.

Granted she may not want to make changes that are "easier" for him. However, how about easier for her daughter? Wouldn't it be better for the baby to spend the max time w/ daddy rather than someone she is not related to? So she is going to prove a point that she doesn't have to alter the schedule till the Court orders it done in July. At whose expense? Her daughter's.

The fact of the matter is that they share parenting responsibilities to this child. She can continue to dig her feet in the sand etc. And yes he may have to drag her to court countless times over the years to ensure his eqial rights. It just seems ridiculous to me.

She may not want to cooperate, but it would be in her and her child's best interest to do so. Several cases in the Georgia court appeals system have taken away primary custody from the CP solely due to the fact that s/he was uncooperative and demonstrated a pattern of frustrating visitation.

katie,
Wow! That sounds like Cali's case.

Well that's calling the kettle black don't you think? You say, she is doing this at the expense of the child. You forget he had an affair and left his marriage, wasn't that at the expense of the child too?
I am not saying 2 wrongs make a right because from what you have said they BOTH sound to be emotionally immature who care only about their happiness not the children. Yet you come here and have painted the stereotypical picture of another evil, irrational, vindictive ex-wife and it was you that saved another MM out of a hellish beastly life and just want everyone to JUST GET ALONG.
You are saying she should get over it like you, who doesn't hold a grudge against your ex because he owes you money...come on, are you really comparing your anger over money owed from your deadbeat ex, to a man that has broken up his marriage and continually hurt his spouse whom he made vows for better or for worse!
Plain and simple, if you want to understand why she won't give in to her ex's hubby's request for a schedule change then the next time she get's in contact with you, you ask her. You forget, this is a marriage building site, coming here to sugarcoat your side of events isn't the way to go if you were looking for "WOES US" play along. JMO

trying,
I wish to respond to your last post. However, I promised to pick my daughter up today early as she has about outgrown her gymnastics suit. I will respond this evening after I get my 2 kids off to bed as FMM will be at work. tew

I remember you.

We discussed that your name means:

"the end will justify the means"

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

(((Ark^^)))

I feel for you.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I have a friend whose husband divorced her. He and his mistress tried to keep their thing hidden, but some of us weren't fooled in the least. Unfortunatly, however, his wife was...even after the divorce was final.

The OW used to be a friend of the family. So she knew of the agony his wife was going through. She'd console her, tell her she'd find someone else, and gave her playgirls for her birthday.

To this day, what burns the XW the most is that this person would even dare to act as if she gave a rats butt about her while she was shagging with her hubby on the side. It really was disgusting.

Anyhow, the XH and the OW have been engaged for more than a year now. No date has ever been set. I'd bet money it never will. XH began drinking again after YEARS of sobriety. Does that sound like a happy and fulfilled man? He went to a facility and cleaned up, thankfully for his children.

What the OW and most people out here don't know, is that he's been seeing his XW on the side. Essentially SHE'S become the OW. To the general public she swears she wants nothing to do with him and that they're DONE DONE DONE. But everyone says they still have a thing for each other. The OW doesn't know it though. She wants to believe everything is honkey dorey...so she does. But it isn't.

The worst part of this story as of last I knew, is that the XW has fallen in love with a married man. She says they're divorcing and he's moving out soon and that his soon to be ex wants the divorce as much as he does. I just wish she would have learned something a bit more valuable in all of this. Leave married people alone. If you're sure they'll divorce...then let them do it without you present.

I'm dumbfounded when an OW can say that if it weren't them it would have been someone else. Well gee, what does THAT tell you about the person you've "won"?!?! The truth is you don't know what would or could happen if you weren't in the picture. Heck, you don't really know what's happening when you ARE in the picture.

Hi tewjtm! Haven't seen you around here in a while. I just wanted to commend you on being such a great "step-mother". You're so concerned for your DMM's child - so helpful to him in the never ending battles against the evil XW. Preparing his legal briefs while hand washing his boxers? What a woman!

BTW, how are things going with your other MM? Last I heard, you had slipped away from DMM to spend a few days in Florida with the one that didn't leave his wife for you?

Y'all really oughta lurk on TOW once in a while. You'd be amazed at the antics of some of these people! tewjtm is known as "Female Sargeant" over there. She has a lot of careers! Not to mention a lot of MEN!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Shirley, I was hoping someone would come along and post this one's real story.

She was seeing TWO MM at at the same time, they all 3 worked together in the GA prison system and has on more than 1 occasion snuck off to see the other one because he is the one she was really "lusting" after. If we take her word for it, she has at least 4 different career paths to take. She spends all her time now typing up and filing legal papers for her man. A bit obsessive if you ask me.

Not sure why you don't just let things be, and leave his wife alone. If he wants something done, let HIM do it. Maybe YOUR constant "in your face attitude" with his wife just doesn't want her to do anything nice.

Ark, you really don't owe this one an apology, you had it pegged right.

All I can say is WOW! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> truly pathetic

I post at gloryb as femalsargeant

This was clearly stated in MY post on page 2 of this thread. I have nothing to hide. Yes, I was seeing 2 MM. Thus, my old screen name here SOW22MM. When MM #1 moved out I almost resented it as I had begun another relationship. I did feel I owed him to a degree. Thus I began NC w/ MM #2.

I went on a cruise in September I had been in contact w/ MM #2. I have again chose to go NC w/ MM #2 as we have no future. The last time I spoke w/ him was in March as he had called and wanted to talk about his brother that had been murdered. I did talk w/ him. I also told FMM about it and changed our number at his request. For those who had read my posts at gloryb at least you should be honest as all my posts there stated I never would want MM #2 full-time as he, in my opinion, is the "cake eater" type of MM.

mshermi,
FOUR career paths. Care to enlighten me where you come up w/ that figure as it is certainly in none of my posts, nor my life.

Yes, I worked in the Ga prison system. I lost my job when MM and I moved in together (o.k. BSs this is your cue to cheer. YEAH!!!). I also have a duel BS in CJ and SW. I, on the side, help women get CS. I also do divorces, wills, visitation petitions etc. I do this on a limited basis as it is a thin line between "helping" and practicing laew w/out a license. I am now employed as a part-time reporter for our local paper and full-time proofreader. It sounds more glamerous than it is. City council meeting are very dull. I work from home for a local atty researching case laws for his criminal appeals (only have been doing this 2 1/2 months so this can't be one of he 4 "careers" you refer to). I also work part-time for a private security company. It is great. All I do is sit in a shavk for 8 hours. I am able to bring my lap top w/ me, my proofreading, and my books - I love to read.

Yes, I file all my FMM's motions. I also have his Power of Attorney. This allows me to be more proficient in dealing w/ his kids' doctors and son's school teachers etc. If I have the know how, why waste money on an attorney?

For the poster (I believe trying) who stated just ask her (the XW). I did. She stated she was not going to cater her life to his. Great. More power to her. However, if she changed the schedule he and SHE would have more time w/ the baby. After all, isn't that is whar is supposed to be a priority?

The reason I posted here at MB is I like to get a different point of view. In fact, lately I have posted here more than at gloryb. I also find many MB resources valuable. I know why she is refusing. I know no matter what I would rather have more time w/ my daughter. I find it odd that she would limit her time and his time w/ the baby knowing the baby will be w/ me. I posted this on general in a non-offensive way. I never try to offend. I respect all the posters here at MB. Thus I do not understand why some feel a need to hurl insults. That is not productive. tew

<small>[ May 22, 2003, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: tewjtm ]</small>

tew-

check my post out...

Why would a woman go from 1 MM to another? Isn't that a bit strange to you that you become the OW not once but twice?
On the childcare note, did it ever occur to you that maybe she doesn't want her child to have more time with YOU, her ex's girlfriend. Maybe she feels you are not this childs parent and that taking care of her child is not your responsibility. If and when you marry your FMM then maybe things will change, maybe not.
Now that we have more history on your tainted past with married men, I think it would be wise of you to stop throwing stones on his ex-wife when you have just as many ISSUES as she does. JMO

TEW

My story is under the title of coming out of the closet....if you can stomache it...

Here's where we part ways...
regardless and no matter what the WS says or does we each alone are still responsible for our own actions....

I said.. FWS don't become reformed...they come to believe that the initial committment has greater meaning than their actions stated...and even if that committment is to be terminated they have enough respect for the person...(even regardless of the other spouses behavior to terminate the marriage before breaking vows)

you said
Well in an ideal world, yes. However, they both broke these ideals.

And that's where I say...baloney...there's a lot of say...dishonesty in this world...and in an ideal world...there wouldn't be....
BUT I still choose to live honestly to the best of my thought and ability...as well as raise my children to be honest...REGARDLESS of not living in an ideal world...ideal worlds start within each person......therefor even his and hers disregard for marriage and vows...does not free YOU from your choice to regard marriage as something with or without meaning....

AND
however, a research of my old posts would reveal the stress and guilt i faced during the EMR.

You get no brownie points for self inflicted guilt and stress...especially when it did nothing to alter your actions of hurting another person....
It is our actions that define who we are , what we believe in, what we value,...and how we value others....not our feelings of guilt and stress...

i think EMR are so wrong on such a larger global scale to ALL parties involved..

It is great disrepect to the wife/husband unit AS well at the OP....it causes great harm to the soul...

ARK

<small>[ May 22, 2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

kily,
Will do.

trying,

Why would a woman go from 1 MM to another? Isn't that a bit strange to you that you become the OW not once but twice?

Yes, I suppose. I was involved w/ MM #1, but he was at home making an effort to stay in M. I met MM #2 and sparks flew. Also, due to the fact that I was very busy w/ work and the kids the relationship was convienent for me.

On the childcare note, did it ever occur to you that maybe she doesn't want her child to have more time with YOU, her ex's girlfriend. Maybe she feels you are not this childs parent and that taking care of her child is not your responsibility.

Please reread my posts. That is what one would think. However, her refusal to change the schedule results in the baby being in my sole care for 36 of the 72 hours she is with us as he has to work. not to mention the hour or two of sleep he must get. A change would allow her and him more ime with the baby and me - less.

If and when you marry your FMM then maybe things will change, maybe not.
Now that we have more history on your tainted past with married men, I think it would be wise of you to stop throwing stones on his ex-wife when you have just as many ISSUES as she does. JMO

Never claimed I didn't have issues. Don't we all?Please show me where I threw a stone at her? Honestly I swear she has less anger at me than you all do. I have NEVER even put her down in my posts. I only was seeking opinions in which to gage her reaction or behavior in my mind. Please copy and post any post where I have thrown stones at her. tew

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She stated she had no intention of being flexible w/ him at all. Even if you were still angry at X and FOW wouldn't you rather your child have visits on your x's off days so he could spend more time w/ the baby? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You implied she is an angry ex-wife.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know she is angry. I just have always made it a practice to set aside my anger for the sake of my kids. Case in point: My daughter (9)'s father is currently several months behind in CS. He has never legitimated her, thus he has no legal right to see her. Yet, no matter how many times he has gotten behind, I have NEVER denied him a chance to see her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You imply you are better than her because you aren't mad at your ex.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do his legal work for free. She, on the other hand, shells out $175.00 an hour for an atty and she only makes $10.63 an hour.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You imply that you are better than her again.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has since admitted to 2 EMRs ongoing throughout the marriage and is living w/ someone as well - the second man that has lived w/ her in the 15+ months they have been separated.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You do want to be judged yet this statement of her infidelities is a WHOPPER coming from you! You have a lot of nerve. I told you this is a marriagebuilding site. You don't have a marriage, you just helped in ending 1 or is it 2? Actually that doesn't matter right now. Stop acting like the victim and get real with yourself, because sooner or later KARMA is coming for you and then you will come back here under another name to say I FINALLY GET IT! That is all I have to say to you. Good Luck

Someone posts on a "Marriage Building" site who:

A. Is not married
B. Has been the OW at least twice
C. Does not respect marriage vows
D. Is not getting married in the near future
E. Believes the end justifies the means
F. Complains about the BS's behavior
G. Does not understand how her behavior hurts children
H. Is not trying to build a marriage

What are you doing here TEWJTM? What are you here to endorse?

What part of the MB philosophy are you hear to discuss?

Pep

trying,
I will answer all the things you copied. However, the comments you made are your OPINIONS or INTERPRETATIONS of what I was commenting on.

She stated she had no intention of being flexible w/ him at all.

That is what she stated to me.

Even if you were still angry at X and FOW wouldn't you rather your child have visits on your x's off days so he could spend more time w/ the baby?
------------------------------------------------

You implied she is an angry ex-wife.

She is an angry XW. She has said she is still angry. She is an XW.

I know she is angry. I just have always made it a practice to set aside my anger for the sake of my kids. Case in point: My daughter (9)'s father is currently several months behind in CS. He has never legitimated her, thus he has no legal right to see her. Yet, no matter how many times he has gotten behind, I have NEVER denied him a chance to see her.
----------------------------------------------------

You imply you are better than her because you aren't mad at your ex.

NOPE. D@mn right I am angry at ex. It even states in the quote you posted above that I set it aside.

I do his legal work for free. She, on the other hand, shells out $175.00 an hour for an atty and she only makes $10.63 an hour.

You imply that you are better than her again.

How??? I do his legal work fo free - a fact. She makes that ammt and that is what her atty is charging. I know this due to check stubx and his bills she provided the Court that she wantd him o pay. When we go to Court the schedule will change - even her own atty has encouraged her to change it.

She has since admitted to 2 EMRs ongoing throughout the marriage and is living w/ someone as well - the second man that has lived w/ her in the 15+ months they have been separated.
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You do want to be judged yet this statement of her infidelities is a WHOPPER coming from you! You have a lot of nerve. I told you this is a marriagebuilding site. You don't have a marriage, you just helped in ending 1 or is it 2? Actually that doesn't matter right now. Stop acting like the victim and get real with yourself, because sooner or later KARMA is coming for you and then you will come back here under another name to say I FINALLY GET IT! That is all I have to say to you. Good Luck
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Posts: 924 | Registered: Jul 99 | IP: Logged |

I was merely pointing out the facts as someone suggested letting them rebuild heir marriage. I didn't say that "no good fat, lazy XW of his has been ned hoppung all over town". That would be a judgement.

I really don't care who judges me here. It does get in the way of productive exchanges though.

Pepperband,
And to think one of your last posts to me stated you were starting to like me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I am on the General Questions board asking a general question as this form is open to those that have questions not just to husbands and wives building a marriage.