I am very sorry to say this, but I am beginning to think that nothing works to fix a marriage. Does anyone have a good story about how they survived an affair and they are now happy together (after at least a year). By the way, I got back with my WS after having filed for divorce. We tried to follow the Harley plan, but it turned out it was just ME following the plan. After a 16 months of trying again and things seeming to be pretty good (my mind playing tricks on me), I found out my WS was still having her affair with the same guy that was part of the initial affair. In fact, she later admitted that they never stopped but for a few weeks here and there.

Any real hope out there?!
Conan

Conan,

Unfortunately most folks who are successful, eventually leave the board. So whey you come here....it's mostly those still struggling. It's taken most of two years to reach recovery....but I am really happy. I consider myself one of the MB successes that is still on board. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Conan,

Unless you put these conditions into place at the supposed end of her affair, you really weren't following Harley's plan:

First and foremost a verifiable promise to never see or speak to the affair partner again. This would include sending a no contact letter With this information:

No contact letter to the affair partner:

•Out of respect and love for spouse and children s/he realizes that s/he must never see or speak to lover again.

•the relationship with lover was cruel and thoughtless and you did not deserve to be treated that way

•S/He is determined to be the spouse you deserve and have been missing

•S/He will not contact her again and asks that she respect his wish to end the relationship entirely

•You have been told all the details of the affair and will be told immediately if contact is attempted in the future.

It may also mean changing employment or even moving to a different city.

The other condtions are:

Radical Honesty. Each of you must learn to be honest, in a way that is respectful and courteous, about all the events in your life. This includes how you feel about things that each of you does. Your hopes, dreams, and plans. And is particularly necessary in terms of accountability.

You each need to know where the other one is and what you are doing 24/7. There can no longer be the opportunity for one of you to have a secret second life. This is one of the conditions that allows an affair to flourish.

Eliminating things that hurt each other: (Love Busters) This is where we look at things that each one does that either hurts or annoys their spouse. This ranges from abuse to simple habits that drive you wild.

Doing things to make each other happy: (Meeting each other's most important emotionsl needs) Being honest and eliminating hurtful things will stop the pain. And then in order to restore love to the marriage you both must re learn what it is that reach of you needs to feel happy and fulfilled in the marriage, and then find ways to enjoy doing those things.

Time as a couple: The primary reason marriages fall apart and lose the intimate connection is that couples stop spending time together as a couple. They do things with their kids or their friends and families. But to maintain, or rebuild, the feelings of love men and women in romantic relationships need to have time for just them.

Creating a way of life that is good for both of you at the same time: (POJA) You do this by making all your decisions in a way taking each other's feelings into account.

~~~~~~~

If she is still after all this time in contact with him then it's really time for Plan B.

C

Oh, and yes of course there is hope. But ending a spouse's affair and then moving to recovery is difficult painful work. It is work that is direct contradiction with what your emotions and your instincts tell you is the right thing to do. (and it contradicts what most of your friends and family tell you to do!)

If you want to save your marriage then the very first step is ending the affair. Until you do that there is no way you can take any other step. Plan A needs to include both confronting her with what you know and how you feel about it and exposing the affair to friends, family and others around you. But really, I do think you're pretty close to the Plan B point.

C (again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

We are happily married. Recovered from H's 18 month intense PA/EA "soulmate" affair .... 7 years ago!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Add me to the list! Happily married, recovered 2+ years and counting! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Peperpand,

What got your WH out of the fog?

Yes yes yes - I have a good story - my H's intense emotional/physical affair, which began online, occured three years ago. Our real recovery began in Feb. 2002 when my H finally was able to commit his love to me...and believe me the road leading up to that was not always easy.
I still have "moments" as well - but with time, and the dedication we have to our children, marriage and each other, all of that pain is fading.
It's all a process - but it's happening.

So a big fat YES there are good stories and good reasons to be tenacious and fight for your marriage!!

3+ years of recovery, after 2+ very bad years, H's A with a co-worker. I did an 18 month Plan A through 6 separations, I served D papers during the 7th. H out of the house 14 out of 21 months. He had a complete change of heart, sought counseling on his own, began taking anti-deps, did his own Plan A on me as I was divorcing him and dating (bad idea!).

We just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary. We're happy, in love, making future plans and glad we made it through together.

"What got your WH out of the fog?" .... you mean after I took my foot out of his butt? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I was ready to take care of myself, and H realized this. He said he could see me married to another man, and someone else raising his kids. He freaked out!

Exposure of the A was very humiliating to him. On the other hand, it was also a great relief for him as he was suffering great guilt and felt trapped in his lies.

He agreed to NC right away.

He confessed to the OW's husband right away (her H and my H were friends).

He went to IC right away.

He stopped drinking, and about 4 months later, went to AA and has been meticulous in his AA recovery ever since.

He had learned (right before D-day) that OW was not exactly the delicate flower he'd thought .... this was her 9th affair. I think WH was halfway out of the fog right before D-day.

In actual fact, my WH recovered his emotional equilibrium well before I did. (Which pissed me off no end <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL )

My dear darling Mr. Pepper is an amazing man and I adore him to pieces!!!! Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Another good story!!! 4 years in recovery is just around the corner! Marriage much better than before the A.

Barbarian, are you still going thru with the divorce?

There was a great thread a few months back here... called 'the class of 00' (or 99?). Anyway, it called on all "old timer" to check in and report.
I was surprised to see that the stats were about 70-30 stacked in favour of those who are in recovery.

It's a shame that your spouse never dropped contact - not surprisingly, your relationship continued to be caught in a web of lies. Shame your spouse didnt/doesnt give your marriage a chance.

Thank you all so much for the replies. I am happy to see there is some success out there.

We are getting divorced now without a doubt. My story is too long and twisted to fully recount, but I was tricked into trying very hard to save a marriage when my WS was continuing her affair after being caught several times, writing a no contact letter, saying it was all over, etc. I followed Harley's way, but it just won't work if the other person lies and cheats the whole time.

My question more comes from a terrible feeling I have that there are so few decent marriages. Many of my friends are in terrible marriages. And it seems to me that most marriages are bad. I guess I have been pondering a life full of love and happiness... but never marriage again. Why do we enter a relationship that history tells us has a 50/50 chance of ending in divorce and ignore the fact? And you darn well know that if 50% end in divorce, that there are many more that endure a neverending terrible existence. My guess is that maybe 10% of marriages are "good".

Sorry, this thought has just been depressing me along with all the other depressing things going on in life.

Conan.

We are antoher success story. Discovered H's internet affairs in 3/2001. Found MB in 4/2001. Have been in a very good recovery since.

But Conan.....

As I said above, you really haven't followed what Harley says to do when your spouse is having an affair. Why not give it a try.... the whole thing...at this point, what do you have to lose?

C

I'm a success story too! 2+ years of recovery after a 4 month mostly EA with co-worker ended day after it turned PA.

Things aren't perfect, but I'd call our marriage good!

I would agree with you, Conan, that it takes 2 to have a good marriage and a full recovery.

cerri,

I think I am not understanding you, or I am not being clear. After discovery of her affair, I tried to do all the Harley program. She wrote the no contact letter and she (and the OM) swore it was over and wanted to be with me. I bought and read the books and tapes, we did the worksheets together... the whole nine yards. However, she lied and kept it up he affair in secret with OM for years. I would find out about it again and then the whole cycle would repeat with me thinking I was doing Plan A and all the other Harley things you noted.

The only thing that I cannot do is the Plan B. She will not move out and I will not move out for fear of the impact on a divorce/custody situation. Any good divorce attorney will instruct you to NEVER move out of the house, unless forced to do so.

So, how did I not follow the program? Help me out here.

<small>[ June 26, 2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Conan ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The only thing that I cannot do is the Plan B. She will not move out and I will not move out for fear of the impact on a divorce/custody situation. Any good divorce attorney will instruct you to NEVER move out of the house, unless forced to do so.

So, how did I not follow the program? Help me out here.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you consider filing for separation in which you asked the court to ask her to leave the house? It seems that this would have been a way for you to implement Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Conan:
cerri,

I think I am not understanding you, or I am not being clear. After discovery of her affair, I tried to do all the Harley program. She wrote the no contact letter and she (and the OM) swore it was over and wanted to be with me. I bought and read the books and tapes, we did the worksheets together... the whole nine yards. However, she lied and kept it up he affair in secret with OM for years. I would find out about it again and then the whole cycle would repeat with me thinking I was doing Plan A and all the other Harley things you noted.

The only thing that I cannot do is the Plan B. She will not move out and I will not move out for fear of the impact on a divorce/custody situation. Any good divorce attorney will instruct you to NEVER move out of the house, unless forced to do so.

So, how did I not follow the program? Help me out here.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, maybe it's me being dense. (Quite possible, BTW... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) but what I'm not hearing is the radical honesty piece that makes both your lives an open book. How each of you feels about the events in your lives, your reactions to the things the other one does, 24/7 accountability for time, whereabouts and money....

I'm also wondering, and I guess this falls into the accountability portion, what precautions were put into place to make it difficult if not impossible for her to have contact with him behind your back? Block his phone number, email address change or block him, move to a different city, change jobs....?

Then did you plan and spend a minimum of 15 hours a week together, just the two of you, meeting the needs of conversation, affection, recreational companionship and when she was ready - sexual fulfillment? This one thing cannot be overstated in it's importance and necessity for recovering and restoring a marriage. Even if you do everything else right and you don't do this you cannot recreate romantic love. And that is why women leave or stray.... because they are not in love.

Also remember Plan A is more than being a nice guy. It's about confronting her and exposing the affair to others. It sounds like you may have done that?

Generally, women who have affairs and end them, and then fall back in love with their husbands (which is his responsibility) have a very low rate of relapse. The key is ending the affair entirely and not seeing him, period, at least until she is through withdrawal and you are making good deposits into her love bank..... 2 years minimum. Like every addict, maintaining that no contact with the affair partner requires what Harley calls extraordinary precautions.

I know of couples where the WS didn't leave the house alone without huge accountability precautions to make sure s/he wasn't seeing the OP. Or they would make a schedule for checking in with each other every so often during the day.

Email is really the tough one because computers are everywhere and it's incredibly easy to set up a secret web based account. Some solutions to that are to put key stroke software on your home computer, only go to the library together and to hope and pray that the workplace has a strong policy about non-work related internet use..... which unfortunately many do not.

C