Thanks for those of you that offered some support-I know what I did wrong and did not need it beaten into my head... I have deleted most of my posts b/c this topic and some replies started to bring back pain. Thanks to those of you who know how to mix kindness in with your support. Yes, I am quite sensitive. My wh has verbally abused me over my lb, and I am just about beaten up over it by him and myself. I am my worst critic anyway. I appreciate the friendship found here. Thanks, H

<small>[ July 06, 2003, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Honey:

I thought you two were seeing MC? Do these issues ever come up in counseling sessions?

Meltdown? Welllll, I guess given the circumstances, and the long, hard fight you've had, it's understandable..........

No flames here. You've beaten yourself up enough, it seems.

Here's a cyberhug, tho! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Honey}}}}}}}}}}}}

A priest told me "Let him take the initiative." You can't save the marriage by yourself. If you realize that, you won't get angry at him because you'll realize that you can't control him. All you can do is your part to heal the marriage. You can't force him to do his part to heal the marriage and, if he's not willing, there's nothing you can do to make up for his not being willing.

I thought dragging him to MC would do the trick. Wrong. You have to have your heart in what you are doing in order for it to work.

<small>[ July 06, 2003, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Honey - what do your friends in Al-anon say? Of course, I'm not going to beat you up - I'm just concerned about you. You and H are still trapped together in the cycle of addiction, and he still doesn't want to get out. That's what all this is really about. You are trying to recover your marriage, but he has a totally different agenda - he SAYS he wants to recover M, but he really just wants to be able to go on drinking ("being himself, enjoying life, enjoying his friends" whatever he wants to call it) and M for him means getting what he wants out of you (sf and no hassle).

You LB'd because deep deep down inside, you are angry that you are not getting anything that you really need out of him, and you feel like he is getting a lot of what he needs from a woman out of you - its not a fair trade - you're getting screwed here. And after exploding, you get told its all your fault - so that he doesn't have to take responsibility for himself.

I really, really, really encourage you to share all of this with your Al-anon friends, because I am sure they have all been where you are, and done similar things, and been told the same things by their drinking partners. Honey, you can tear yourself apart trying to be the person a drinker wants to quit for - and that's what you are doing to yourself. Someday, you are going to say to yourself, "Honey is worth more than this - I love Jim, but he isn't the man I need, and trying to be there for him is destroying me".

Personally, I am convinced that he is never going to stop drinking while you are participating in his life like this. And you have no chance of having a real marriage, which works for both of you, while he is drinking. Drinking is the real issue here which blots out everything else, and until he really wants to stop, the marriage is secondary.

Please, please go back to Al-anon, Honey -
(((((Honey))))).

LIR

Honey --

Maybe MC is premature. Maybe what you need is to let go of the M and go to IC.

<small>[ July 06, 2003, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

Honey --

Key Report? Have you found them? Few things in life more disconcerting than to lose one's keys.

LB's are "LB's" only when undeserved and unwarranted. It's hard to see the ways you've reacted to your H's continuing poor choices as being either. You deserve to explode if anyone does, and H needs to hear and feel those explosions--it's called repercussion and fallout and consequence. It's what happens when the wrong roads are chosen time and again--the wanderer gets lost and stays that way.

But, make no mistake, your H is CHOOSING to stay lost, choosing to impede and thwart your relationship and your family. He's doomed to move about aimlessly and destructively until that new day dawns, until realization sets in, until The Fog finally lifts.

The problem is that those watching and those involved pay an unfair and equally high price for those misguided decisions. H doesn't see this path as self-destructive and far-reaching; those involved KNOW it is, and know it with a rock-solid certainty.

So, Honey, give yourself a break here. Stress points are reached and exceeded even in buildings and bridges. You're allowed to blow up now and then. Some would argue that it's much healthier to do so than to keep it all bottled up inside. It's like filling a glass too full with liquid; it all runs out over the rim.

Know that we are with you on this, that you have friends here, that we understand.

Hope you've found those keys...

Ammon

<small>[ July 06, 2003, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: Ammon ]</small>

we are all entitled to a few drinks and I am not alcoholic,

No..that's not true. Not all people are entitled to a few drinks. He is not entitled because he is an alcoholic. And, at the risk of being flamed myself for this comment...YOU aren't either if you want to be married to an alcoholic!

Surely AL-ANON is not telling you that it is ok to go drinking with an alcoholic WH? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

You need to love him enough to let him hit bottom....so that there is nowhere else left for him to go but UP.

IMHO...you are just delaying the inevitable.

committed

<small>[ July 07, 2003, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

Hi Honey

You where not the only one with lost keys you know?

Yesterday Ilost mine also... car keys... Well in my case that was due to a kid of my friends beign here and runing with a lot of things at home...

Well I found mine.... Hows the key hunt?

Try.... hmmm let's see....

Under the bed
Pull out the cusions of the sofas
Under the sofas
Look in every drawer, room, bathrom and kitchen.
look in the place you place laundry.
Look in the clothes you had that night
Your purse?
Bedside table drawers?
If u where a bit... drunk... look in the refrigerator, trash cans...

I hope you find yours....

Your post hit home in more ways than the keys...

I can understand why you loaded the gun with LB big time... Sometimes is good to take that anger out... and the drinks? well aren't they a little escape from reality?
I'm not going to beat you too hard on it, but remember that if THAT is a problem for your H then you can not go a join him in his problem.

Separation can wear us down pretty hard. I took my time to read and to fix myself. I could have throw me to drinking (as I did the first 2 weeks after dday) but came to realize that was not the answer to my problems or his problems, I was just runing and trying to forget them (not very successfully I might add)... But in my case they where good at least on one ocasion because I drained a lot one time with those...

So please seek counseling, books and help on friends and family if for nothing else you'll be out of this a changed and more stronger women.

Also it might be a good thing if you read some Bramblerose posts I think her H was/is? more or less like yours with the drinking problem. She might be able to help you through here maybe?

On the SF issue... Well you can bet I miss SF A LOT and although I had it 2 times after dday, I put a stop on that until my H recommits to this M. I advice you also to do that and I KNOW it's hard, but in the long run it can backfire and make your mind play some tricks at you like feeling a low self esteem and some kind of "toy"? Forget me if I'm too blunt on this but you have to respect yourself first. Anyway I know you are still his wife but he is not acting like a H. So why fill that need? That is a need that must be filled with love and care. Not just S.. you know? Think about it...

I hope you find your keys and have a calm Sunday.

Take care

<small>[ July 06, 2003, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Honey we are all human and we sometimes make bad choices. If you apologized to him and he still uses this latest one of yours as well as past ones, then he is just using this as an excuse to continue with his bad choices. He will never appreciate or respect you until you show him that you appreciate and respect yourself. How do you do that? By first opening your eyes that you have been in a 'fog' of your own in thinking that giving him SF will be enough for him to come home and work on rebuilding the M. And secondly, to realize that the ONLY way for your marriage to be saved is when he finally commits to a marital recovery plan that includes counseling and strict adherence to the principles embodied in The Four Rules For A Succesful Marriage . Go to Plan B and accept nothing less than the above.

<small>[ July 06, 2003, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...I loaded the gun... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and then shot yourself in the foot again. Why did you go out drinking with him...AGAIN? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Drinkers will surround themselves with drinkers. That way no one can complain that they are drinking and lessens any guilt they may have. You fell for it again.

You continue to refuse to let him see himself in the mirror. By drinking with him you are telling him that it's a non-issue. You give up all right to complain about it.

What has he really lost by separating from you? He has an apartment. He has his friends. He has an occasional job. He has his kids. (when he chooses to see them) He has you. (when he wants SF) Most of all he has his booze. All is right in his world. Why would he want to change it?

If you're willing to accept this arrangement then keep doing as you are doing. It's working great.

jmho
ba109

Honey,

What happened? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

L.