trulymadlydeeply...

I didn't want this on rushed fool's post ...

It is important that you remember that marriage builders is a site about saving marriages...that's a fact...for your own sanity as well as others.

You are a bit of an egnigma here NOT because you are a WS...but because you really haven't stated what it is you are really seeking...so people come at you from all different angles...

be careful not come back with them that they are way off in a negative way...we don't have much to work with....from ya...
so while you are not the foe neither are the people here......people just don't know which angle it is you are interested in looking at "HERE"...

You are not the enemy for lots of WS have come here and talked openly about the feelings that they have for their OP...but we can't fix or change how anyone feels....and in some cases feelings don't even really matter...but society tells us that's all that matters...but it's not...

And as I have said to you need to look at how those feelings SERVE you and others in your life...even how they SERVE the OW...

I have always thought of myself as upstanding and true; a man of character.

This is a big theme for...you have stated several times about how you are not the type of person who cheats or "does that"....
well wrestle that demon and decide that you WERE that type of person...but you are no longer....and make movements that move you farther and farther than that....

One thing you don't seem to understand TMD is that people can and do move away from "first love"...and that their life will definately be different it doesn't doom it to misery either....
you hold on to a tiger by it's tail...and i am not sure why....

It is and always has been our actions that define over our words or stated beliefs...it is painful when we have to admit those things did not play out the same...but you can change that...
and focusing on changing them now may assist you from dwelling on the past.

I have broken a promise I never dreamed I could break.

Reality is we are ALL guilty of that..you are not the only one..don't make stumbling blocks out of things that will just stagnate you
..and you do need to seek atonement for them...but if you wallow in your guilt then it just continues the damage...and the only real way to atone for breaking promises is action.

compounded the complexity of the rebuilding by making new promises.

quit making new promises....like you said...

I AM willing to try again with my W. But her first rule, and admittedly valid rule, is one I can’t meet. happy happy snoopy dance here... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> first definitive statement...
besides not letting go of the OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (can't)

I won’t play the games that have been enumerated by ARK in this thread and outlined by ORCHID in other threads. There is a pervasive assumption on MB that a WS is somehow mind numbingly stupid and easily duped by psychological charades or the clever but intellectually insulting turn of a phrase. That stuff throws alarms left and right for me. I would walk in a flash.

Now on your part that is ridiculous there is nothing but numbing stupidity for a WS think it is RATIONAL to tell their WIFE she should ACCEPT or be more understanding and open with his love and attachment to someone else.

that is a stupid statement from someone married...just based on definition of marriage alone it is stupid and treating it as just thus..in much more intelligent than fighting over it...trying to be rational with such a irrational thought...
this does not mean that WS are stupid blithering idiots...it means that desperate emotional situations can lead to people saying such insane things.

telling someone you lied to them because you didn't want to hurt them is nonsense...when dealing with infidelity and big mother of all mother lies.....

It is just as much as a game on WS side to rationalize poor behavior as it is for a BS to react....

and reacting differently than screaming crying fighting is exactly at time the catalyst that causes two people to quit with the bullcrap and begin to get real and down to real issues...

infidelity is a game on many many levels....

I read a summer read this year that had infidelity and the wife was confronted by the husband out with the OW....and she simply looked her husband in the eyes and asked him...

"When did I become your enemy?"

what a poweful bring you to your knees thought or feeling a betrayed person must feel...how sad and lonely...

infidelity is a game of of the heart
a lot of games it appears...

ARK

God Ark...there is so much value and heart in all of your posts.

Thank-you.

TMD, this MB'er knows their "stuff".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I read a summer read this year that had infidelity and the wife was confronted by the husband out with the OW </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ark, could you please share the title of this book?

Thanks, Susan

Do we assume TMD has no response? Perhaps some time to digest, to reflect....? I hope so. What a great post!

The book is UP ISLAND by Anne River Siddons...

she has quite a few books out there...

I enjoy her imagery...

ark

I KNEW it!

I read that book and recommended it to Pepper probably 2 years ago. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks,
Susan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Good read ... I really enjoyed that book.

<small>[ July 27, 2003, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: ShelleBelle66 ]</small>

Wow, TMD sure sounds like my H. even tho he isn't. All the double talk and you don't like it when I lie, so I shouldn't be lying to OW either should I? Wow!!! I read the other thread and it just galls me that anyone can try to rationalize such actions and I heard the old "I lied to you to protect you, you're not strong enough for the truth" Gag! I guess his wife should be understanding of his feelings for OW, and not mind he is still seeing her. I mean if she is contacting him and he is letting her and will not turn her away, there is no, no contact. NC means nothing at all and having the strength to tell her that and ignore her.

Remember people that TMD isn't like SNL.... yet but c/b.

It is sooo easy to see the wrong in other WS'. SNL and many other WS' are quite hard on many a foggy WS (I remember what SNL said about mine and at the time he was correct). However, time will tell whether this fog logic stays or goes.

TMD has the opportunity to better himself or get worse. We have active MB posters that have gone both ways.

TMD, my advice to you is, sit up, pay attention and make postive changes for the good of yourself and your family. All is not good just for TMD all the time. Life just doesn't work that way.

L.

Ark wrote a thoughtful and reasonable post, and encouraged TMD to come and discuss some issues. But he didn't. TMD is not here. It really unsettles me and it is against the policy of the forum to have a thread that goes unanswered to a specific poster and just becomes a thread ABOUT that poster. I have reported several threads like this and they have been immediately removed. So unless this is a conversation that ark (or others) is having with TMD, or at some point (because it's been on the board for a few days without a response) TMD answers....it's unfair to discuss him while he isn't here. This is the kind of thread that is ruining the EN board and causing board wars.....trust me, you guys don't want to go there.....it saps the energy of the board. I honestly believe that if he was ready to discuss these issues....he would have shown up by now. Give it up.....or at the VERY least....wait until he answers.

<small>[ July 27, 2003, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

star*fish, out of respect for your concern, I have moved my post to TMD over to the thread he started - it is a more appropriate place for my remarks.

If you look at TMD's posts lists it is clear that he does not post much on the weekends, so an immediate response would not to be expected on a thread started on a Friday.

Hopefully TMD is out there having a great weekend.

Take Care,
Shelle