It's been a while since I've posted anything much... been keeping very busy, which is a good thing, right?

Anywho... I've been coming to some conclusions and wanted to float it all out there in the "ether".

I had a talk with IC recently, and she seemed to finally be willing to admit that W has been "stalling" - not really digging deeply. I guess I feel vindicated or something <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

She also said she thought maybe W needed a shake or something - floated the idea of filing for legal separation. I don't know - right now, that doesn't really bring any kind of true closure - dissolution does.

I'm ready for that step now, definitely. I see W refusing to budge, still in contact with OM, still wanting her space, still "needing time to decide", etc. In short, still in her addiction, not seeing the forest through the trees, seeing nothing but good in the midst of a pretty unpleasant situation.

I suspect she's been waiting for me to make the big moves - maybe to let her off the hook somehow, someway. Maybe she believes it'll make it "all better" if I'm doing it - shows that I'm "okay" with moving on. It shouldn't bother me anymore - and doesn't much now-a-days. But then again, part of me is bitter enough to let her hang in the wind eternally, if necessary. But then I realize it's just an unhealthy attitude creeping in.

My current thought is to finish this "right", as if there is such a way. I'd like to end in a dignified, respectful way that leaves her with nothing to fight against - no more glorious battles, no more tragic conflicts - no more of what she claims she misses, too. She simply has no will - and that's become ugly, ugly, ugly with time. By design.

I have a note basically that says a brief, heartfelt good-bye for my IL's, I was thinking of letting her see it - not accusatory (blood / water thing) - but more finality for my liking.

I did ask my W to provide some financial details, to get the legal ball rolling. She's fallen silent, except for dropping off my mail, some cat toys and some licorice for me. A few months ago, I might have felt something - now I feel pretty much nothing.

Sorry for being such a downer... I know others are struggling and winning - and I applaud you, and encourage you to fight on. I know my next steps are NOT conducive to saving my M - but I honestly don't see that as an attractive option now anyhow. If we had children - maybe. If she showed an ounce of courtesy - possibly. I feel like I've met Dr.Phil's standard of "earning" a Dv. Being young and attractive, it'll be more than okay. I still feel cheated somehow - like I've been beaten - which I know is ridiculous.

Yes, I've been at it nearly 2 years! Maybe I was nuts. Maybe I can be proud of it someday. Maybe I can put it on my relationship resume - "Willing to take loads and loads of crap". In any case, I'm positioning myself well - and when all is said and done, I will let W know that we can't maintain some kind of "fantasy friendship" like I think she believes we can have. Again, with kids it'd be different - but this is a rare opportunity for a clean break. Might even feed some of her sick "tragedy" - who knows, who cares!

I know this sounds pretty bitter - but really it isn't. Simply accepting that I've reached an end, and have nothing left to give. She will undoubtedly wake up every now and then for the remainder of her days and wonder... "what if?" Luckily, I can wake up and thank my lucky stars that I'm free of such a destructive influence. I she wakes up next to OM, all those pitfalls that Pitman talks about will be there for her - he'll never truly live up to me - and I think she knows that deep down - maybe not so deep down, or she might have been more keen to drive this to a conclusion sooner.

Ok, enough of this! I've got things to do! Take care all

<small>[ August 21, 2003, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: J.R. ]</small>

J.R. nobody can accuse you of not giving it your best. You have indeed earned your divorce but more importantly, you have learned and become a better man that will have a wonderful marriage in the next couple of years.

But as far as your WW is concerned, she does not deserve to be scorned but deserves to be pitied for she has adopted a relationship destructive pattern that will sabotage her relationships and may well indeed follow her for the rest of her of her life.

J.R. I humbly suggest that you use your insights to help those newbies that are right now where you were 2 years ago. They would greatly benefit from your advice.

J.R.

I agree with everything 2MCM has said. You've done the MB plans pretty much by the book, and have earned your DV. You've persevered in an awful si2ation, and you've thrived as a person.

I also agree that helping out some of the newbies would be useful, for them as well as for you. There's a lot of problems out there that need 2 be "solved" by someone like you, J.R.!

♥2long

I'm so sorry to hear that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> She certainly seems stuck. It's more than time for you to get your true freedom. Are you moving back to Canada?

JR --

I've followed your story pretty much from the beginning. I'd like to think that we've won something even though we haven't saved our Ms. Maybe it's our dignity. Maybe it's new found skills for making our lives better. Maybe it's new hope for a new relationship.

The only thing I can say for sure is that you put everything you had into this and it is unfortunate that your WW is still living a tragedy of her own making. It is very sad.

Like you, I don't post much anymore. I think it's because I'm not sure what I have to offer after two years of trying so very hard and making so many changes without the benefit of restoring my M. I don't mean to sound fatalistic.

JR. You did what you could and it is so much more than many others in the world would have or could have done.

Peace to you in the next steps on your journey.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like you, I don't post much anymore. I think it's because I'm not sure what I have to offer after two years of trying so very hard and making so many changes without the benefit of restoring my M.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I beg to differ with you unsureheart. You do have a lot of knowledge about what worked and did not worked, and if you saw someone in very similar situation as yours you would be doing her/him a great service by sharing your personal insights.

Hi JR,

I agree with everyone above. I do think you have "earned" your Dv. But, I also think you have earned more than he is "able to take loads of crap". You have learned to do things the right way. To give someone who has hurt you the benefit of the doubt. To not lose your head in these painful matters.

I also think you will see your world far differently and you will be the better for it. So cut loose, and enjoy the rest of your life. I do think a letter to the IL's would be nice or at least the polite thing to do. I don't think you need to show it to your W. File, get the information you need from W, and go enjoy your life.

You may not know it now, but you did this very very well.

God Bless,

JL

Gosh J.R., I read this and see myself a year or so ago, and some of it is still there for me too. Just takes time as long as you use it wisely and try to learn as you go.

What JL said is so true, there will come a time you'll look back and see that you handled it with integrity and respect, and that REALLY matters, although you may not think so now.

Take it from me, cuz I'm in that place in time right now and I'm pretty proud of myself that I didn't do some things I was very tempted to do, all that hurt taker stuff and the resentment stuff.

I'm sorry things turned out this way for you. I think I've read nearly every one of your posts and followed your story closely.

You have a new life ahead of you, young with less baggage than most in your shoes (no babies). So you have a great chance for a wonderful life with someone that will appreciate and cherish your MB applied knowledge.

Very Best,
Jo

Willing to take loads and loads of crap"

Bull [censored] ....

More like J.R. = faithful, loyal, honorable, responsible, dignified, forgiving, pragmatic

You'd have taken her crap if you'd have let her have her A's under your nose without confirming your boundaries.

She is weak.

You are strong.

Now it's a mis-match between you.

You need a strong partner, she needs a weak partner.

You've risen above her level, she has failed to elevate herself.

Too bad.

Be at peace with your choices. You done good child.

Love, Pep

Thanks all,

TMCM: Insights... lots of them, I'm finding it hard to come here to share lately, sadly, maybe because it's a strong reminder of everything. But it's like Hotel California - you can check out of MB but never leave <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

2L: Thrived... well, it feels like that some days more than others, but on whole, yes, I'm a different person. W has claimed "I don't regret making changes in my life, I do regret how I did so." Thing is, how she did / is doing them reflects who she is / becoming - yuck!

H4F: Hi! Long time no talk. Going back to Canada? Well, I'm doing quite well here right now, busy, doing fun stuff. When all is over, there's a larger pool of people to meet right here. But I know my parents would love to have me return. Basically, I'm in no rush, although looks like my landlord wants to sell my current place - might have to move, if just a few miles.

UH: Fatalistic... it's reality, it's okay. Part of me is just so stubborn, thinking now "maybe I just just file for legal sep" and let her continue to stew, tell OM more lies, etc. But geeze, it gets a bit tiring after a while. Hope you're doing ok, last I saw there was some movement over there at least. It's weird to see things go hot-cold-hot-cold with the aliens, and they don't even question it. Wonder when they will.

JL: Thank you. I know I'll feel "good" about this path. I think of it this way - if today isn't so bad for me, it will be even better tomorrow. You provided me a paragraph a long, long time ago - about the whole process, about how my love would die eventually - very prophetic.

Jo: Well, I've got *some* baggage now, but yes, it could be worse. I worry that I'm going to be extremely picky and distrustful now, but that's just something I'll have to deal with.

Pep: Geeze, don't go make me cry at work now. This is what I need to remember, keep in the fore as I go forward. I think one of her big problems is that she doesn't want to be vulnerable, possibly not in total control of everything. She sure can control OM it seems. She'll always tell herself that she got the best of the bargain - she has to - so I pity that poor fool, trying to keep her in ecstacy.

Part of me wonders if this is going to result in some more conflict. I.e., start more jockeying by her, etc. Frankly I think she's best off in the fog forever. And I have my doubts - her best skill is "running" and so this would probably only serve as her "excuse." No matter. I know the truth. She knows the truth. OM knows the truth. IC knows the truth. That's going to have to be good enough.

I took a look over MM's old threads this morning. Yeah, that "could happen" here too. But do I want it to? Is it likely? I can't go into it with any expectations - that's why I haven't considered it earlier. This would truly be the first time she's been out there without "The Net" (aka JR). She has fallen strangely silent with me, and I know for a fact has tried desparately to rekindle things with OM, after hearing my resignation. Boy, that's a great war story to tell "the kids", no? ("Yup, I really fell for your father when my ex dumped me!")

Ah well, I'll keep y'all posted, I'm sure there'll be more "stuff"... I may need to blow off a little steam here and there too.

Well, J.R. ...like it or not, you're one of the "greats" here.

With greatness comes responsibility! And so, ol' 2long here will be the first, but perhaps not the last (and definitely not the 2nd!) 2 tell you that you should come back here often and help out those in need of your insights.

Don't you just love how I can volunteer your services so easily!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ol' 2long

<small>[ August 05, 2003, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Oh 2long, it's easy for me to give advice, the hard part for me is in taking it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

A few stray thoughts...

I asked W to please get me a list of account numbers a while ago and she isn't budging. She's been travelling a lot, but is back now and has no excuse to delay. I even said "please!" She's usually been pretty good about logistical things I ask for.

I realize she's in her usual "stall" mode, but it's really $@#$ing me off. I know that if her life was so great, she'd be assisting in getting this moving, but I feel like I've got to play "bad guy" by her, thus giving her some ammo to shoot me with (well, really her). I don't want to care, but it's hard not to!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I have an attorney appt tomorrow, will put down my retainer and figure out specifics of what I need to do next.

I'm in the midst of studying for some exams that are a lot of work, work is insanely busy, I need to move, and I'm trying to have something of a social life when I can. I climbed a 10,000 ft. peak recently, eyeing a 14,000 ft. one now. One more thing to throw on the list. My work wants to get me an H-1B visa that would require me to stay in the country till the end of the year. I'm not absolutely certain it's what I want - may be great, may not! Aaagggh. I will admit that I'm getting a little stressed lately.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by J.R.:
<strong>Aaagggh. I will admit that I'm getting a little stressed lately.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">R U ready to watch primates at the Zoo ?. I am planning on 8/30/2003 since Orchid might go out of town on 8/16. Hope you could come ... too bad that checkers went out of biz. Email me to hook up even before then, I am working in the financial district every other week.

-rh-

RH, I would definitely be interested in the zoo thing! I'll work my sched around it! (BTW, I can't find your email addy - could I get it again? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> )

Well, saw my attorney today. Last I saw him was Oct '02 for an "initial consultation" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Time sure flies when you're having fun!

Our case will be extremely simple, we have no property, no kids, no debts. I don't believe she's going to seek spousal support - but who knows... Would be ironic since one of her big things is the "independence!" battle-cry. No expensive pieces of art. No Swiss bank accounts.

I expected the experience to be more surreal, more painful - but it was very business-like. I guess that's the benefit of following the plans in this way!!

I suppose it would be only fair to let her know what's coming... She's complained about "anvils" before in this, but I've telegraphed this one heavily.

I dunno... is she honestly not wanting a Dv by stalling, or wanting me to be the "bad guy" by doing it? Not that it'll effect my course - just curious is all!! The latter option would of course give me all the more proof that she's morally bankrupt and I have no business in being with her.

And then I think about her little "trinkets" let in my mail - the cat toys and licorice. An honest gesture of care, or a "even when OM and I are happily together forever, you'll still hold a 'special' place in my heart!" If the latter, it'd prove she's a control-freak who can't leave well-enough alone and I have no business in being with her.

Anyhow, I expect my attorney and I can finish up this filing next Thursday, he'll mail it to her, and take it from there. If we can get a settlement in place soon, I may not have to deal with her anymore, during the 6 month "wait" period - and beyond.

sure ... I am on EMail Exchange ... inside_hacker@yahoo.com . Next week I won't have my 2 D, my off week with them and I would be in the city.

-rh-

Got an e-mail from W today, partly including:

"I don't know what to say about the account numbers etc. If you want them, I will assemble them this weekend. That does not mean that I support your decision"

Hmmm... so I did respond quite briefly, including:

"And it would seem there's a large difference between 'not supporting' and 'not wanting' - and so I'm not sure what else to say!!"

A little blunt, no? Well, it doesn't really matter. I'm not going to hide behind anything - let her hear it, as it is. I don't think I stated it unfairly, angrily, etc. - just my reality.

RH, I WILL keep your offer to help me move in mind! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by J.R.:
<strong>RH, I WILL keep your offer to help me move in mind! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As long as you come to the picnic ... LOL. I just joking, I know how difficult moving is on top of the stress of this mess on you. Don't hestitate to call me to help you out.

-rh-

I think you're doing great JR. You just popped her bubble is all. She's somewhat typical for a WS...thinks because you haven't been pressuring and angry that she has more time and more time and just a little more time. Times up!

Well, my W received the summons, etc. in the mail yesterday.

And surprise, surprise, she called me up last night, extremely distraught.

So what was I supposed to do? I say "I'm done" but it's so very hard to hear her in such pain. I mainly listened to her, she begged me for some more time, basically, given that she's so incredibly swamped at work - which is not going so well for her right now.

I can see the 2x4's getting "primed" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I understand what's going on - don't worry!

I basically let her know that this is extremely difficult for me, too, but I'm also a man of my word - I'm very determined - I have a need to take control of my life, etc. Her response was not to attack me in any way but admit that she's terribly unhappy, near a breakdown, and is the "one with the issues." And yes, she even admitted that she still loves me.

And I didn't back down. I did agree that if she needed more time, that's okay... after all, what's another few weeks in my life - it's a life that I'm managing alright on my own. I sent her a message this morning that included:

"So if you want to hold off in doing *anything* that's fine by me.
However, as you can appreciate, I'm not interested in letting this
become more "reality avoidance" for eternity!! So what is a
reasonable timeframe for a response? First week of October?"

And her reply this morning was very cold and angry...

"So what you are saying is that once I return the "acknowledgement of
receipt", then I can consider myself "served", upon which I have 30
days. Fine. I want until October 1st to send my "acknowledgement of receipt"."

So basically, she's still "out of control" of her emotions - one moment saying that I "haunt" her constantly, another saying "Fine!".

Oh well, pressing forward.

Foooooog