I was watching Letterman last night, and Simon & Garfunkle played a couple songs. They made me weep. But one line in "the Boxer" goes.."despite the changes we more or less remain the same"

It helped me feel better about myself, because I saw myself in total, not just the 2 years I was in an affair.
Do you ever think of yourself like that?

I will respond to you when I have more time.

What worked for me was to not listen to my WH because he is in the fog. Just focus on your PLAN. Do the best PLAN that you can do regardless of what he says or does. Believe me that's the best solution.

I just needed to vent a bit, I don't want to LB so I decided to drop in here. I am having such a BAD day. I can't even look at my H because I feel the tears welling up in my eyes. I don't feel loved by him AT ALL, and I'm wondering right now if he's EVER gonna come around.

I tried to have relations with my H last night, and he ADMANTLY refused. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I don't know WHAT to think anymore. Does he no longer find me attractive, is my hair too messy, is he thinking about OW, is it my stomach???? I feel like a big heap of sh**, so ugly and unwanted. I'm dying inside, I have only been in a STRONG Plan A for nearly a week. I know that isn't a very long time, but I am REALLY trying so hard. My H makes small comments like NOTHING will make a difference. Sometimes I feel like I don't even belong here as if I don't deserve to be advised,and sometimes I even feel bad for my son for me being his Mom.

My best friend is gone (My Mom since 1/02) and I have no other family besides my son and my H. I feel so alone, so bruised, so battered. I'm just rambling. I don't mean to feel sorry for myself, but I AM ALWAYS STRONG!!!! ALWAYS!! I don't feel like I can be strong anymore...

Luv,

His responses to U seem to be more about him than you. So he is oblivious to your outer and inner beauty points.

Now the dangerous piece in this is that at these kinds of times, many a BS tend to take that oblivious tendancy as a personal attack on the BS' character. Thinking the BS now looks ugly and unwanted. When that happens, the roller coaster takes a huge dip and a rapid pace. Stomach in the air, weak knees, head spinning,etc.

WRONG!!!! What needs to happen is that the BS needs to take a good long look in the reality mirror and see what the rest of the world sees about the BS. See the beauty and value. As for the imperfections of mind, body and spirit, see those also and work on them but never never make those points less than your beauty points.

Keep things in perspective.....then when the WS acts like a fool 'again', the BS will be confident abouth his/herself enough to stand up to the WS and say......'well, I can understand why you would not want to have s3x w/me.....now that I think about it, I shouldn't want to have it with U 2! Thanks for turning me down, U saved me from making you feel rejected.'

R U up to that level of acting?

L.

Is it time to get honest and humble? What helped with my H and I was when I apologized to him...I know, that sounds ludicrous.

We spent many an evening me talking to him about the pain I feel. I hear it in your responses, but have you ever told him...and not in anger...through tears. Your H is having a hard time trusting you (that you won't go back to the nagging wife again), I know my FWH is still scared of that.

Time to be honest...he needs to have ALL the information, about why you get mad, and how you feel rejected. I'll bet he has felt similarly. Time to tell him "I feel rotten most of the time, and I am VERY sensitive to your actions. I don't feel lovable. I have been afraid of you leaving me since I met you and have been keeping you at a distance and holding you off so it wouldn't hurt so bad. But I hurt anyway." These are not going to be magic words, but will help, and your actions will help. But there may be other forces getting him to leave...his own hurt and anger.

Not wanting to make love is all about HIM and HIS needs, not about you. 99.9% of what a person thinks is wrapped up in their own life, and very rarely think about the other person.

How can you love yourself more? You are a wonderful person, but you have wrapped so much of your self-worth into what you perceive your H liking about you. That's not fair, that's a big job. You are beautiful and thoughtful, intelligent, and beautiful (it deserved saying again).

Hi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Today I am feeling a little better than I did yesterday, I did my hair, cleaned up a bit and spent some time with my son.

Mimi

Thank you for stopping by, I am trying my best to focus on MY Plan.

Orchid

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Keep things in perspective.....then when the WS acts like a fool 'again', the BS will be confident abouth his/herself enough to stand up to the WS and say......'well, I can understand why you would not want to have s3x w/me.....now that I think about it, I shouldn't want to have it with U 2! Thanks for turning me down, U saved me from making you feel rejected </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> This made me laugh when I read it the first time. Wouldn't this be an LB though or just me stating how I feel in a non-confrontational way, whatever the case I do like the way this sounds.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> R U up to that level of acting?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Halle, had better watch out, I'm coming for an Oscar too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Stillhere

Thank you for all of your insight you put into your posts.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We spent many an evening me talking to him about the pain I feel. I hear it in your responses, but have you ever told him...and not in anger...through tears. Your H is having a hard time trusting you (that you won't go back to the nagging wife again), I know my FWH is still scared of that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The thing is, with my H I have cried so many times I think he has become numb and doesn't want to hear it anymore. I think he takes my tears as an attack against him. I would love for him to listen, but it seems like he gets angry when I cry. I TOTALLY agree with you as far as him having a hard time trusting that I won't revert backwards. Esp because I showed him such a diffrent me prior to reconciliation, then once he was back at home, I turned back into Queen b**ch.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How can you love yourself more? You are a wonderful person, but you have wrapped so much of your self-worth into what you perceive your H liking about you. That's not fair, that's a big job. You are beautiful and thoughtful, intelligent, and beautiful (it deserved saying again).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you!! Thank you for believing it, even when I don't.

LHE

THIS IS IT, I CAN'T TAKE. I COME HERE, READ, LEARN, TRY TO EDUCATE MYSELF TO BETTER MYSELF AND MY M, WHILE MY HUSBAND IS STILL SEARCHING FOR SOMETHING BETTER????????? I FOUND OUT THAT HE IS ON A WEBSITE CHATTING WITH FEMALES, IN NEW YORK, NEW JERSEY, AND SOUTH CAROLINA, WHERE OW IS FROM. NO HE'S NOT CHATTING WITH OW, HOWEVER HE IS STILL SEARCHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! F**K PLAN A, AND F**K PLAN B, ALL I CAN SEE IS PLAN D AND PLAN ME!!! IS THIS IS WHY HE DOESN'T WANT S3X FROM ME, BECAUSE HE'S LOOKING FOR A REPLACEMENT? OR IS THIS IS WHY HE'S TELLING ME'S UNHAPPY UNTIL HE FINDS "HER" WHO DOES MAKE HIM HAPPY. I FEEL LIKE MY WH IS NOTHING LIKE ANY OF THE OTHER HUSBANDS HERE...HE IS SUCH AN A**HOLE!!!! I CONFRONTED HIM ABOUT IT AND HE LIED...AGAIN, THEN CHANGED THE PASSWORD!!!! I ASKED AGAIN AND HE STILL LIED!!!I GUESS THIS IS WHY HE WANTS TO GO TO COUNSELING, TO CUSHION FOR THE BIG BLOWS TO COME..

PLEASE PRAY FOR ME, THAT I WON'T HURT THIS MAN PHYSICALLY!!!

<small>[ September 15, 2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: luvhazeleyes ]</small>

Luv,

See what I mean? His actions are angering you and it should. Now it doesn't fix anything but make your blood pressure soar.

Just to let you know, the same happened to me and probably many others. Right now he is not a recovery canidate. So you need to not look towards M recovery......you need to look to personal recovery and practice those lines in the mirror.

You missed your Q, your anger made you miss your lines and set you back. I am sorry for that happening. Now we can help you move forward and eventually, the 'lines' will come easier.

Hugz,
L.

{{{{{{{{LHE}}}}}}}}}}}

I'm sorry this is happening. I agree, he has not been in recovery.

I wonder if he's been milking the victim role (I don't trust you, blah, blah, blah) to get what he wants (more time away from the house to "search", more time alone on the computer).

What now? Time to say "My life is H3]] with you living here and I'd like you to live somewhere else."? He says he wants to leave, time to ask him to leave on YOUR terms, instead of his. Or is he just lining up a place to stay (or a string of places to stay)? Sorry for my sarcasm, this was one of my H's ways of meeting women. We now have spy software on the computer. It records every key hit on the computer.

When he got out of jail, why did you take him back? You seem like you have been a very giving person, and very angry about the lopsidedness of the R.

In my R I had been waiting for years for my H to grow up, to meet with the potential I saw in him. He doesn't see it and continues to be lazy about his life, letting things go to waste than to take care of them (relationships, possessions, house, children, self-discipline). I've felt resentful for years at how much work I've had to do to keep everything together. And it showed in my voice and actions, to say I was a nag is putting it mildly. It's only been recently I've seen a change in my H, and myself. It took an A and nearly losing us for us to wake up.

I'm not blaming you for his actions. You are not the reason he is "searching". He may be the kind of person that will "search" no matter what.

The way I looked at things, I had become a person I didn't like, so I decided to change the way I acted into a person I liked...that's why the biggest changes in me.

Luv,

How are U doing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Hi Orchid,

I'm doing as best as can be expected. Thank you for enough caring enough to ask. I am just waiting until MC on thurs, where I will bring everything out into the open. i know he is still leaving messages for females on the website, telling them how pretty they are, etc...It hurts because I know I'm goin to go through withdrawal from him, but I can't go on. Some say stay in Plan A, HOW??????? Some say Plan B, what do I do??? He has NO where AT ALL to go, do I just throw in the street? Orchid, I just don't know what to do, and if I don't do somethng I am DEFINATELY enabling. I am so confused <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , hurt, and beaten up. I just feel drained!!!

Luv,

U will do what you can. No one can make you do more than U can. Know your boundaries, do not push yourself.

As long as your mind and heart are our of sync, it is hard to make plans for the future. Any kind of plans. Too much confusion reigns in the heart of a confused BS during the A.

Your clarity will come. Soon, imho. Keep praying for a clear mind and a calm heart. Keep learning about yourself. You may find that your 'real' boundaries are not what you expected. I know for me it settled on something different than I ever imagined. The controlling part of me wanted to know all......the real part of me needed the OW to be out of my life.

So when she put herself back in my life, I was ready to take action.

L.

Luv,

How are you doing?

L.

Hi Orchid,

I'm ok, I think I answered on the other thread. My mind is a little boggled right now. Thank you for always showing concern for me, I appreciate as I have no one else to do that.

Love,
LHE

Update:

Counseling was a big farce. The counselor basically made my H feel very comfortable about not wanting to be married anymore, told us that maybe we do need to move on, and told my H not to cheat as long as he is in the home. This was a CHRISTIAN MC. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .

I am very hurt confused and don't what to do. My H doesn't want to work on anything. Although he is being pleasant, he said there is nothing that will change his mind. I told him that his demeanor makes me feel as if there is another OW, because he doesn't want to try to save the M at all. He adamantly denied this and told me that he is just tired of trying and has no energy left to put into this M. I expressed that I do love him and I am sorry he feels this way, because I am willing to do what it takes to save the M.

He said that I cannot always think that another woman is in the picture he is TIRED TIRED TIRED. He wants no affection and really no SF. I tried a few nights ago, and he said he was tired and I couldn't believe I started to cry. (i know that was ridiculous) I wasn't crying just because he didn't want SF, I was crying because I feel as if I have lost my H again, and there is nothing I can do and noth ing he is willing to do.

He's being nice and friendly but I feel he is doing this because he already has a plan, and I don't. He even tries to account for his time, though not always more so than not. I am confused, one minute he's acting like a H and the next minute he's reiterating that he's leaving.

We have both agreed there will be no more R talk, because we are both drained. Could he be buying time by saying he wants to leave in order to see if things will change, but then I don't know if he would be so adamant. I even asked for a month to see if things would get better and he still says HE CAN'T DO IT.

Luv,

U gotta go figure if you want him around while he is in his mood swings.

Maybe time to think of plan B, eh?

L.