</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"I wish I could get hypnotized or something to make me forget the A and that it ever took place."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no1 keep in mind George Santayana famous saying ""Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it".

After 29 yrs of marriage my H contacted an old HS sweetheart and had an A. He is the one who made the moves to find. It went on for about 7 months, seeing each other twice the last two months. Son and I found the secret emails while they were together on last trip. WE called. He hid! She talked to me.
When he came home he was in an attitude of regret, but later in argument said son and I ruined it for him.
Son is adult BTW.
H had not seen her in 43 yrs or 42 to my knowledge.
Even though he has apologized and stated he wants our marriage happy again and to last, he has made me feel as second best also.
So I know how NO1 H is going to feel about this.
It's been 2 yrs now and I still wonder if all through our marriage he was thinking of her, missing her, wanting her, thinking I was a mistake or poor second! He says not, but Ok, how do you get past this feeling?
There are a lot of repercussions going to come from this revelation, so you better be prepared on how you're going to convince your H you love him, always have and not OM?
Everyone in My H's year book commented on their future together wishing luck.
I've never known what happened back in 1958 when H graduated, he simply says they went their separate ways. Hard to believe too.
An A is painful enough, but to go back to someone from many years past is hardest I believe.
I didn't know of her before his last trip which was to be a going home type visit and old buddies.I told him you can't go back again, ever!
He used that statement on me when he came home and I was aware of A.
I am going to say this. No matter what he tells me, how much he loves me, or says she doesn't matter, it will always remain with me and I'll always wonder!
Because once you have been lied to, deceived, and betrayed, you lose the ability to trust anymore in any words!
She is married also, and they had talked about being together forever in emails, yet marriage word was not used. Now he denies it!
I have offered divorce, let him go screw up her marriage again and get her. But he refuses.
So now I wonder if it's love for me or circumstances. So much damage this type of A brings.
NM1 I'd say be prepared to do whatever H ask to reassure him. And be aware he may want you to write or call or even meet OM with him to hear you say you didn't love OM! Not everyone needs this, but I did and it hasn't happened. He says she knows. I doubt it. I think it's like she was one in control because Her H made her write a NC letter to my H.
Men, it is said, take an A much harder even than a wife. I hardly see how that can be because the pain was so bad for me. If this statement is true, God help the MEN! For me, I'd have preferred someone had put a bullet through my brain!
So while honesty is the best policy, and if not told, it does come out someday, I truly feel for your H. Believe me, there is no hiding lies.
Better to tell now than let the years pass and then have it come out. I dealt with suspicions for 18 yrs on his first A and then it sent me into a tail spin when I did learn.
We BS's have rights too! We have the right to know and decide if we want you US's in our lives. If we don't, then it's your fault you lost. You knew the risk going in and made the decision you were willing to lost us for your thrills
We sit and wonder how many A's we didn't know about!
Make your decision and take your lumps! Guilt will eat you alive either way.
LouLou

There seems to be alot of EAs or As with old loves and sadly to say, its increasing. If you all want to know what this HS sweetheart deal is all about go to this website: www.lostlovers.com. I just want to say, that the author who studied these reunion theories does warn happily marrieds not to even have a frienship with an old love. For a troubled M? Sometimes theres no turning back. They iginte twice as fast, and very powerful types of EAs and As...

In looking back, I just wish I would have listened. I wish I would have turned and walked away the minute I knew what his intentions were, but I didn't. I take full responsibility for it. But, what as helped H and I put our lives back together is understanding the dynamic of an old love, especially a "first love". We both counsled with the author who is a psychologist, and read Dr. Shirly Glass's book "Not just friends" who also mentions lost loves. Those two pieces of information saved our marriage.

Take care all,
Be well
mj

WS-Me 39
BS-36
EA 3 years, 04/00
DD - 04/03
Been nc for 4 mos. and doing remarkably well...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MissJ:
[QB]They iginte twice as fast, and very powerful types of EAs and As...

Miss J...I guess this is true and I don't hear it enough. See my signature. God Bless.

Jay

You all have been great and supportive. Yes, I carried feelings for XBF over 18 years and wondered about him but pretty much forgot him. He told me right when we hooked up that a week didn't go by that he wasn't thinking about me. He said he tried to find me many times prior but was misspelling my last name. He was going to get a PI to try and find me. SCARY!

I look back and I wasn't very nice to XBF during A. He smothered me and scared me. I always viewed D as failure, especially when I've got a great H. I unconsciously was protecting my boundaries by lashing out at XBF so much.

What I couldn't get through my mind the last few months--how could XBF chatted and cheated after he went to such great lengths to show me such love? Why was he so hateful when I found out about his dating profile and his internet dating? Guilt and shame? Why isn't he hurting as much as I am? Probably because he doesn't have to face me or a beautiful family every day.

Maybe this will all catch up to him. I felt that I was the only one to feel pain over this A. His bday was in May. I bought him a really sharp shirt and pants. I found out he wore it on one of his internet dates. When I asked him about it, he hatefully said, "I'm sorry!" He was and is very insecure and that's exactly why he was looking and dating. I've always been able to read people, which also helps in my profession, and I could read all along what he was going to do but I couldn't stop the "high" that the A was giving me. XBF said this would be "our year." Boy, he can say that again!!!!!

His XW moved 2 hours away with the kids and he's all alone dating Internet losers who lie and manipulate. What goes around comes around and mine has come since I'm feeling all of this pain. I don't wish XBF any harm at all, only want him to feel remorse for what he did to me and my family. Yes, I let it happen and every day I relive it and feel the shame.

The last time I was with XBF was June 6. He took me back to my car and was telling me how I was such a big part of his life, meanwhile planning his date for the next night. I think of the hurt of all of this and I'm thankful I found out before I let the A blossom any more than it had already. As far as I'm concerned, we have nothing more to say to each other EVER. I carried him with such high regard and found out what he is truly like and I have no more questions such as "what if and what might have been." Trusting anyone else the rest of my life will be difficult, but more importantly, I want to learn to trust myself and find myself 100% in my marriage again. I am so confident that I am on the right track. I'm putting my M above everything else.

Thanks again everyone,
No1

Please don't take this the wrong way but:

Do you beleive that you were owed the truth about your OM cheating behind your back even if there was no evidence of his cheating?

If your answer to this question is a resounding YES, then don't you think that your H deserves to say YES to this question as well?

MissJ, I was all excited to think this lostlovers was going to disspell the A with old loves. Gosh, I went there, just read the research data without going to sign up.
After reading what great successes these lost lovers have once they meet up again, I think I'll hide it from H. 72% to 78% stay together? Obviously, that means they were meant for each other and we spouses are second rate now and always will be!
I will sign up so I can read the boards, but I had some encouragement at first until I read that. LOL I think I don't want him to know how happy he could be!
Why the hell didn't these people marry to begin with? I think most would have ended in divorce if they had first.
I am my H second wife, we met one year after his divorce. They were married 10 yrs. He could or should have married his HS sweety instead of bringing her into my life 43 yrs later!And now I'm wondering if maybe HS gal was cause of his first divorce? LOL Now I just have more ? than ever.
Oh well, I offered him to go get her, but he turned me down many times now.
Did you gather there were any who found lost loves and were disappointed? I would think there had to be some, especially after so many years. People do change! And let's face it, HS was mostly fantasyland, puppy loves and idealism.
HS was never real life!
I think My H still saw a 16 yr old in his mind, rather than a almost 60 yr old woman!
Big difference! Lots' of miles, lot's of changes. They found out you can't recapture youth! Which probably was a nice way of saying sexual energy!
If it's so wonderful, then perhaps we'd all be better off finding old loves and snagging them for the rest of our lives?
I happen to see the first real great love of my life in 1981. It had been 19 yrs since I'd seen him.
We had no A. It was a funeral I went home for, had my daughter with me.
Actually, I was very grateful I had not married him! He was no where like when I knew him in youth.
There was none of the feelings left, he was nothing like I'd imagine he'd still be, and his life was no where in alignment with mine. We were like night and day.
So it's possible a lot of these renewed loves are simply fantasy land in mind and nothing to do with reality!
Wouldn't we all like to be 17 again? Or 18? Well, not me. I'd like to feel that age, look that age, but have all my wisdom I've gained in my years now.
LOuLou

Newbranch,
I'm sorry, I don't want to stir things up for anyone. Its hard enough having to face the A or EA. I guess my wish is that sice its been my experience, I don't think anyone should ever think they are second best. If your spouse is still with you, its becuase that ole relationship has lived to its death. Sure they may think of them every now and then, but they won't do anything about it. I still have fond memories of my OM, had those thoughts for 24 years, even had my own reunion, fact of the matter is, i had no right wether he was my HS sweetheart or not to continue. Anwyay, thats done, over, finito and ... Just remember though, like they say the best revenge is living well, working on your M and making it the best it can possibly be. Anwyay, I posted the site so that others can get a better understanding of what we are was dealing with. I think your right though, it can turn into fantasyland or even an obsession for some. But, as hard as it is to face, many do reunite, I've read about all the weddings... Also, I have read of too many who will not leave and opt for a cake and eat it deal. Or promise each other they will wait forever until kids are grown etc....and some like me, who do love our spouses but made some bad descisions to cross those boundaries. And yes, some of those reunions didn't work out. Some were inspired to leave thier marriages but didn't end up together.... But the good ole doctor warns that marrieds should not even tread those waters if they want to keep thier marriages. So maybe some Ms are already troubled or folks got married for the wrong reasons or were torn away from each other as young lovers. I know my OM and I were to immature to deal with our feelings. Later as a young adult, I tried going back to him, he refused. Then he got married, I left him alone but I never forgot about him. Now he comes after me 24 years later... and for what? Stupid me though, I fall for it all, the whole kitten caboodle.... All I can say is I want to continue moving on. Make my marriage the strongest its ever been. I wish OM well too and I hope maybe he does find that intimacy with his W. I don't know... but thats not my problem.... So keep working at your Ms..... take care of each other, talk, talk, talk, talk, or get out your lovebusting list...

One last thing, I was a bit concerned about you. I just want to say that your not second class to something that can't be contended with. I don't think my H ever felt that way, maybe, but he never said so. No matter what. Since your H is home with you and things obviously didn't work out between them, I would believe that it is over. "YOU ARE THE LUCKY ONE" you obviously have somthing that this lost love reunion couldn't contend with..... just remember that. If it was mean to be well, they would be together right? So, give yourself a pat on the back and start working on gaining that trust back..... Hugs to you and everyone who ever had to deal with this crap... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Catamount, my sorry might be a bit late, but you hang in there. Just remember, none of it was ever about you...... I know that may not help, but I gather your moving on and getting passed it all.

Take care and be well... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
mj

<small>[ September 27, 2003, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: MissJ ]</small>

I do not agree that you are 'putting your marriage above all else." If you were, you wouldn't be talking so much about the OM in your posts. I think you are still in the fog of infatuation. Telling your H the truth would help you to fight your way out of it.

The longer you hold this secret, the longer you have this illusion/fantasy of OM.

I have to ask. Wouldn't you still be with him if he hadn't cheated on you? Doesn't sound like commitment to your H, sounds like settling since you couldn't have what you really wanted.

Mag, I understand where you are coming from. I had a trigger of OM. A long time ago I created a subfolder in my hotmail account. I went in there today to clean out my junk mail and other things and found emails sent by OM back in January. It bothered me emotionally a great deal. H was gone most of the day and I really wish he would have been home because I needed to be with him.

I admit I wouldn't have been strong enough to walk away from OM, at least not at the point I was at in June. There was so much I didn't understand and didn't want to accept. With my H so distant, I didn't know how he was going to react to be honest. I didn't know if there was a M left to salvage.

Sure I'm having a hard time. I just got out of withdrawal and as I mentioned, I slept through the night the entire week for the first time. I was tired of being tired and tired of being down which isn't my personality at all.

I hope nobody questions the love I have for H. I made a mistake with an XBF who I had deep feelings for. You don't just carry feelings for someone for 18 years and then love them again and then just get over it in a matter of a few months. I know this will take time. I'm determined to hang in there and work at my M. I've got too much to lose and my H deserves all the love in this world, especially from someone who had betrayed him.

MissJ, thanks. I think for me it's feeling he is here because we've been married 31 yrs and he just retired last year. So financial matters would be a mess. Though he says not, I'm still of that belief or suspicion. I suppose I will always be.
We had such a great marriage for many years that when he told me he'd always wanted to sleep with her, I guess it was like, " What am I, chopped liver"?
That wasn't enough because he'd told me years before and our adult son that every HS guy should have a girl like that, a rabbit! So it wasn't his first time sexually with her two years ago. In fact, the sex two years ago hardly took place because she had never taken hormones or taken care of herself, while I'm still going with flying colors. LOL
The site may help some. I did see you must pay to join. However, just seeing that so many find it is the real love for them, such a high percentage, I just feel he made a rotten mistake by marrying me many years ago instead of breaking up he first marriage then.
I could have done well without all the pain he's given me.
Tonight I made him a dinner of his BD. The moment I sat down he said OH, we could have had Garlic/cheese bread with this. His favorite is steak and fries, so I made it with wine and mushrooms. I felt like nothing I do is good enough while all she did was louge in the pool at their nice vacation two years ago, and dress up to be taken out for dinner. He spent his birthday with her for a week lying to me about where he was going. In fact, he didn't tell us and had there been a death or family emergency, no way to find him. I found all the info and place last night in secret emails. nice, Huh? He'd promised that birthday to take us somewhere long before. It was his 62nd which meant retirement just few months away and we'd dreamed of that BD for years.
But she got the cake and I got the crumbs. They flew to Fl, her from Loutsiana, and he from Ca. to meet up. Twice in 7 weeks.
But here I sit making him dinner and he complains! Just said only mentioned it. I say to make me feel I had not done good enough. Son grilled the steaks to perfection, I did the mushrooms, steak fries, asparagus, wine.
You know, I want to sit on my A$$, do nothing and let him treat me like royalty because I'm the one who's sacrificed for years. And to be honest, I look ten times better than she does, and I'm not a slut!
I've kept my figure, she's fat. I keep my hair, clothes and makeup to perfection. I do not look my age. She looks much older and has vaginal atrophy bad so can't have sex! So what did she do to earn such wonderful treatment?
NOT A DAMN THING! And she didn't have to lift a finger for two nice vacations while I get told I must wait, can't afford even two days away.
Gosh, I'm venting, sorry. Quite frankly, if I could, I'd shove them together and find myself a new man!
I'll stop.
LouLou

Oh Loulou... I hope it dosnt' come down to that. Do you know if he's still messing with her? I mean if its still currently ongoing thats so messed up. I'm so tempted to say, what an ungratful, unremorseful SOB!!!... let him cook his own damn dinner!! I'm sorry... too for you. BTW, your making me hungry (lol) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You deserve so much more.

Okay enough about food... but seriously, is he still seeing her? Does he ever come here? Have you both had counseling?

Sorry for all the questions.... you take care dear, I'm thinking of you. Your story makes me sad. I know the real reality even more so now. I saw my OM's W in you, and now I know I made the right desccision to leave him alone. So many don't know what the BS goes through, we WS just try to block it out... As hard as it was, I made myself face it, I didn't want to be repsonsible for hurting another family. I don't think I could live with that blood on my hands. Four mos ago, I told OM that I had to go complete nc and that it was better that we not even carry on a frienship out of respect for our marriages. I let my H read the letter and he was okay with it. I wish there was more I could say to help you, I really do. But I am a good listener...And don't worry about the venting, thats what we're here for. You need an outlet too. Start taking care of your inner soul...

Take care and (((((hugs)))) to you, you seem like a truly magnificent woman.......

mj

<small>[ September 27, 2003, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: MissJ ]</small>

No1: What you don't seem to understand is that your husband will REMAIN #2 in your life if you do not tell him. Because you share a secret with the OM you will not share with him. That secret is a wedge between you. It limits your intimacy with him, and therefore his intimacy with you. The only thing that will destroy that barrier is the truth.

Researchers who study the subject are quite clear in their conclusions. From: “Husbands and Wives; Exploding Marital Myths, Deepening Love and Desire” by Dr. Melvyn Kinder and Dr. Connell Cowan (UCLA Clinical Psychologist, and Univ. of Houston Clinical Psychologist.): </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> “Let us state at the outset that affairs are terribly destructive not only to marriages but to the individuals involved as well.”

“The most basic effect of an affair on one’s marriage is estrangement. Some people think a lack of trust is the ultimate legacy, but that assumes that the affair becomes known. The fact is that most affairs go undetected. Most husbands and wives will never really know for sure whether their love one has been faithful or not.

“Affairs are inherently dishonest; they all involve varying degrees of subterfuge and deception. Maintaining the “secret” requires an enormous amount of energy even if the unfaithful party does not think so. We have spoken with and counseled many men and women who at first insist they are carrying it off well. The report little or no guilt and are convinced the affair does not negatively affect their relationship at home. This is absolute nonsense!”

In order to keep an affair hidden you are forever walking around with a secret that burns inside. Imagine having a liaison, then coming home, making love with your spouse, and at the height of lovemaking saying “I love you.” Pretty hard to do, isn’t it? Yet millions of men and women have experienced that very moment. What must that do to a person’s sense of honor, integrity, character?”

“As for those who insist they feel little or no guilt, they are deceiving themselves. Guilt is not always conscious. Husbands or wives who play around may feel hidden guilt, which manifests itself in irritability, argumentativeness, with one’s spouse, or vague and ill-defined feeling of depression and self-loathing.”

... Many people cannot handle the inner burden of lies and deception, so one day they blurt out the truth. As with any wrongdoing there is always a concomitant need to confess. Some people will simply tell the truth, while others will unconsciously set up a situation that will expose them. The effect on one’s spouse is the same regardless: shock, intense pain, rage, and doubt that this hurt can ever heal and trust be reestablished.”</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">However, we know that marriage can heal and trust can be re-established, for many of us have done it. If you want more convincing, read the beginning of "Torn Asunder", by Carder for some examples of how unconfessed affairs damage marriages.

Furthermore, my experience is that NOT knowing was even worse than knowing. This line:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> H told me that he couldn't blame me if I did have an A during the past year. I should have told him right then! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">makes me think that your husband is in a similar spot to where I was before I knew. Some part of your husband knows. Not consciously maybe, but he would not have said that if he didn't suspect. He can feel it. Let me give you an excerpt of something I wrote that describes how that affected me: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...the way things were in our marriage was pretty miserable during and even before the A for me. What my wife did not know (because being a committed conflict avoider I had not told her) was that I was near the end of my rope. For the previous 9 years I felt that the efforts I was making to work on our marriage were going largely unappreciated. There had been a positive change in the six months before she told me about the affair, and she had obviously been putting more energy into our relationship, but while I had noticed and appreciated her efforts, my feelings for her had continued to deteriorate. My head and my heart were at war. I was finally seeing effort to do things I had asked her to do for years, yet I didn’t appreciate them. I frequently fantasized about leaving her for other women, and was tempted to have an affair, literally hearing a voice in my head saying: “Why not? She did”. I had investigated getting a separate bank account. I had frequent fantasies (which, not co-incidentally, had started somewhere around the start of her affair) about how I would live if she died in a plane crash while traveling for work, or in a car crash, or contracted cancer. All this was continuing, and even getting worse, while I saw evidence of our marriage improving, and saw her making greater efforts. I thought I was crazy, or just plain evil. When she revealed the affair, it all suddenly made sense. Those kinds of thoughts stopped the day she told me. I now believe that those thoughts and fantasies were just my subconscious telling me what I did not want to believe. My heart knew what my head did not want to admit. But once the truth was unveiled, I had to get through many months of feeling like leaving her for hours or days at time because of what I knew she had actually done, instead of some feelings I couldn’t explain. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did make it through, with God's help, and we have a baby due this Monday, too (life remains interesting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). But what I learned when I read "Torn Asunder", is that the kind of internal emotional turmoil I just described is common in BS's who "don't know".

After what you did, you may not feel you deserve a truly intimate marriage - but why punish your husband for your sin? If you don't have a truly intimate marriage, your husband won't either. Do you think he doesn't want one? Do you feel you have the right to make that decision for him?

for someone who has claimed, numerous times, to be over an affair partner and completely focused on her marriage, there sure are a lot of posts about the om.

if you're serious about saving your marriage, your husband has a right to hear the words from your mouth. not only does he have the right to know, he deserves to know.

please stop with all the "i can't hurt him' crap. and also with the lamenting about being afraid -- your fears are valid but they're a lousy excuse.

for four pages, i've read you on this thread prattling on about how strong you are and thanking the mb all-stars for their sage advice while ignoring your own strength and their collected wisdom.

stand up for yourself. stand up for your family. stand up for your husband. do the right thing and tell him. show that you love and respect him by giving him your honesty.

it will be your greatest gift and the surest way to leave om behind.

MissJ, no,it's not ongoing as she lives many states away and he's not gone anymore. I don't think there is any contact otherwise either.
But how he feels inside is something else to consider. When you have dealt with a liar, you never know anymore what to believe.
I sense it in his irritations, argumentative ways. Read post down below yours by johnh39. It fits here. Although I don't know if from guilt or from hating being here!
He constanly breaks promises of plans for us. He buries himself in TV for all day and nights most times.
We plan getaways and they never materialize as he always says at last moment cant' afford and we'll go later. However, I know that we can afford to go!
I had to have emergency dental recently, and an addition of a tooth to a partial I have. All back teeth are partial. You'd have thought we had to sell our home for this. He was so upset at the cost!
Yet, he never complained or resented money spent flying to treat her to two nice vacations. Far more costly.
It's like every necessary expense here is a burden. We're not rich, but not poor either. We have enough income to take care of all our needs and more. But there is always an excuse to break promises to me!
He promised church with me, but has not been for months and will not go while football season is on!
He can be sweet as can be if he wants sex, then his demeanor changes within hours.
Truthfully, I feel like dirt in his opinion of me.
If he takes me somewhere once a year, I hear about it for months or years! I'm reminded he did this or that for me.
I feel H resents everything done for this family here.
I have written him a letter but it will do no good. I will be told it's garbage.
All it says is offer him to sit with me, make out a written agreement on splitting assets and my alimony, then take it to a paralegal and be done with this. Allowing him to go see if he can get the woman from her H who never complains or has a bad day! We all know there are people like that, huh? Those who have no problems in life? LOL
He says she never was anything but up and bubbly. Um, but I read her emails of how unhappy she was in marriage, lost assets due to supposedly all Her H's misdealings, yet her name was on it all. How he gave her no attention and how hard life was, yada yada. But that was not complaining in my H eyes. He was the knight to her rescue I suppose. But we all know it's up to a persons feelings how they view things.
Obviously, his feelings for her put her in a different light than I am. She obviously had legitimate complaints and I do not!
I say for the WS who is unhappy still, get the hell out and let your spouse find someone who will appreciate, love and care for their needs!
I have always had to be the giver in this 31 yrs. While his two? that I know of, OW had only to dress up and show up!
One, the first one, was a bar slut. Living with a man and sleeping around on him, one being my H and he knew it! He seemed shocked when I found out and told him his best friend was also sleeping with her when my H could tear himself away long enough to come home for a night or two as he was working out of town then. His best friend told me he was. My H wanted to deny even then that she could cheat on him. LOL
How stupid can some men get!Now the last one is such a paragon of virtue, my H is the only one she has cheated with in her years of marriage. He thinks she has never been with anyone but her two H's. Yet, I know right now she is in an A with another of my H's classmates from 1958!
She is making the rounds of the whole HS class that she can get!
My H spent a total of 10 days with her in the last 45 yrs now that I know of. And finds her to be everlasting bubbly, never complaining, happy and up all time!
Of course, those 10 days were spent in romantic settings with nothing to complain about. Just to figure out what fun to have next and where to eat!
I have to ask myself how come her H said "FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST", when I told him of her perfidy.
Of course, my H says it's all him, she was one who didn't do anything to make her marriage unhappy!
My H says she's wonderful or her H wouldn't have taken her back. Um, I pointed out I took him back though he's not so wonderful anymore.
My H says he needs no counseling, that it is only me who needs it.
He would never come here to read and if I share something, he tells me stay away from this garbage.
People come here to try to solve marital problems as I see it. And sometimes I'm sure it's all a one way street. The BS is one trying to find answers while the WS thinks it's all our fault.
My H wants me to be the woman I once was before he cheated on me twice to my knowledge. But he refuses to see how he must change to be who he once was. He just says when I change, and am happy, he'll be happy.
What I hear is him saying, "when you start back being my doormat, I'll be happy again"!
He is wishy washy. One day he tells me I have no rights, none of assets are mine, next day or two he says it's ours, not his.
He is a controller! Or wanna be in full control of everything.
I love reading the success stories here. But what I find is it's only successful when both want it to be. And work at it together. It's only successful when the WS admits their wrong, and truly can show big regrets and start showing appreciation for the spouse they wronged. I don't feel I will ever please my H because now I'm not going to be his slave anymore. You would not believe the things I did for years to please this man. I used to get up at 4 a.m to comb his hair because he has a cowlick that he couldn't get to lay down!
Once he wanted a cup of coffee in evening and I simply ask him to get us both one. I was tired of jumping to his command. We'd lived in that house a year and he had to ask me where in cabinet the cups where! So you can see how I catered to him.
I iron perma press clothes so he would look sharp! Do you know how many women do not iron today? LOL
I cooked two dinners for years as he hates veggies and I love them, plus I wanted the children to eat healthy.
Do you know how many women never hardly cook at all nowdays?
My daughter probably eats two thirds of meals out and if not, Her H cooks them! She sends clothes out, never irons a thing.
Has a house keeper come clean once a week.
Her H treats her like a queen so what am I doing wrong? LOL
She refuses to be the slave.She gets treated well. Obviously, the more you do for one, the poorer treatment you get.
Taken for granted! The only meals ever cooked for me when I was ill or had surgery was by my SON.
Some men should just be shot!
The men or WS here who really want their marriages and are here, learning, and counseling for their spouses, are the truly blessed marriages.
Sometimes I read them and wish my H was like that!
The ones who do this are really deserving of another chance.
Ok, venting again. sorry but it's really eating me here. I just want out and feel trapped.
LouLou

--------------------
LouLou
it's now few days later so I'll update later. But let me say, these reunion sites, HS get togethers are bad news in my book. Leave them where they belong. IN THE PAST.

NOMYSTRY1, HANG IN THERE, YOU WILL MAKE IT.
I recently pulled up letters between my H and OW who was his old HS sweetheart. I put certain ones over for him to read. Some thought bad idea, but I needed him to read again, and see through my eyes as when I first found them.
It's been 2 yrs and so far he had not given me any reason to think he understood the depth of pain. I mean it was like having a car breakdown, you fix it and go on. That seems to have been his attitude. No biggie.
I specifically ask him to imagine he was me or that he was reading mail between another man and myself.
When he finished, he said he finally say the pain and feelings I had. How much it had to hurt.
Then we sat and truly talked, communicated in a way we have not in 2 yrs.
I needed him to see how he talked to her, treated her, anticipated being with her. Then to tell him all those needs I'd had that went unmet while he was fulfilling them for her.
He saw! He knows now.
Perhaps for the first time, though he's told me many times how sorry and loves me, I finally feel he is over her and does truly love me!Has regrets and is going to make changes where needed. I promised I would as well if he'd take time to give me specifics on where he felt I neglected needs. Most for us both have been emotional.
I am of the opinion that burying the past is not a good idea while at the outset of recovery.
For me, it has to be brought to the surface, torn apart, analysed, and as Dr. Phil says, do a complete autopsy on the marriage. Perhaps the A too.
Then you can start to truly rebuild the foundation to the marriage but new and stronger.
I feel encouraged this day.
So keep at it and read, learn, and find answers wherever you can. Counseling if need be.
Examine yourself as well. I'm glad you want your marriage to work.
It's encouraging to see those WS's that do regret, many more than the ones who don't.
Expressing your feelings, and telling your experience helps us all. We need to try to understand the WS in order to find ourselves as well.
Good luck. LouLou

Hi Lou Lou,
Thanks for your words of encouragement. You are right--As with HS sweethearts are dangerous. It has stirred up a lot inside of me. I hope and pray you and your H can get past this difficult time. I keep thinking that I'm not sure I really got over my HS BF but I am so determined to put everything behind me and move on for the sake of my H and my family.

Last night was difficult. I have 2 boys--a younger one who is very athletic and an older son (14 now) who likes to play sports but doesn't have natural gifts. My youngest had a scrimmage last night. We met at the field and cheered on the whole team. My youngest just wasn't as pumped up the last few games as he had been. My H was really cheering and encouraging him to step it up. We could see that my youngest was kinda down on the sidelines. He had thrown an interception and was discouraged.

We drove separately and my older son and I went home and got a quick dinner thrown together (this was about 8:00). For an hour, my H was loudly vocal with my youngest to stay in the game and play hard. My oldest and I went downstairs to watch Monday night football. My H never came downstairs. About 9:45 my oldest was getting ready for bed and I wondered where H was. He was upstairs playing Playstation! I was hurt. He didn't spend hardly any time with my oldest or with me, knowing that our marriage was shaky the last year or so.

I couldn't sleep and could tell H wasn't asleep. I'm not sure why I said it like this but I said, "Do you consider me an important part of your life?" That got his attention and he quickly said, "Yes, why?" I told him I know we had problems and had been drifting but I want everything to be better. I told him it hurt me that he couldn't spend time with our oldest son or with me. I told him I missed the time when we sit together on the couch or talk about our day and we didn't have that, but you went upstairs and played Playstation and left us downstairs. FYI, there was no yelling, just a general talk. I told him that I really wanted to make things better and wanted our family to continue to be close together.

We were also invited to start attending Sunday School along with worship services. I love our church and the whole family has really gotten involved. I told H I think it would be good for us to go and he kinda shrugged his shoulders and said it would be difficult to get the boys up. I told him we were responsible to raise them as good Christians.

I know he wants our M to work but I get upset over the fact that he sometimes thinks we don't have problems, especially considering we were on our way to a D up until just recently.

The ironic part--when I couldn't sleep last night, it wasn't about the OM, it was about my H and making our family closer. I'm hoping we can talk more about this tonight. We haven't always been great communicators with each other and I told him a few months ago that we both need to work hard to be better so that we can move forward.

I'll keep you posted and thanks again for the words of encouragement.

No1

NoM1. You are going to rebuild this, I know. you're H does want you and family, and if you ever do tell him, make sure he knows how horrible it made you feel and the love you have for him.Never, never make excuses for the OM. Worst thing you can do and do not make him look like some innocent, nice guy. He was a predator!Parasite of the worst kind!
As A BW I have had a hard time accepting what my H did.
May I suggest something to you? I have had to deal with this with My H so I know a lot about it.
He, for most of this two years, while saying he wants me to forget it, forgive it and move on and be happy, has held a lot of feeling for her that was all misrepresented.
WE've had many arguments and very painful ones for me with verbal abuse. Comparisons!
After having him read those letters again, and I did a lot of detective work on her and showed him, he has come to say she means [censored] to him!
What you need to do is take a reality look at the OM!
They are not what you WS's think they are!
You have built a dream world around them. Fantasy about how it was in youth and nobody can recapture youth! My H and Ow both told me it was all fantasy and they didnt' recapture youth, but thought they were at time. Big plans, divorces, marriage, running around the country on trips and just living the good life. Well, it wasn't reality because you can't just do that! They aren't teenagers anymore without responsibility!They woke up to that!And found out just how incompatible they are now!
Years between when you were youths and now is big changes.
You have seen one side of him already you don't like. And the bad side is who he really is! Not worth the toenail on your H's foot!
I drug out letters because my H lied and denied things about her. I showed him again and he had to agree finally that he kept her in some virginal light! HA
While these OP declare their undying love for you WS's, they couldn't care less about you!
They know they are risking tearing your marriage apart, destroying your childrens lives, and possibly bringing great financial losses and distress to all your family!
Is this real love? HELL NO! He didn't give one thought to your H or children. In his mind and the OW's mind in our life here, we spouse and family were expendable. She actually called us baggage to my H in one letter!
And yet, prior to his seeing it and remembering it the way it was, he had held her to be some great human, Christian being!
Most of it was at her instigation is what I found going back and reading. She put the pressure to fly to meet in person. Not him.
In one mail he thanked her for honesty and told her, He was bound by a loving family so what would she be expecting? It may have excelerated later, but I truly think he was letting her know she was not going to be a permanent fixture unless it was just for clandistine A.
She had the big dreams! She pushed his buttoms just right and he made a fool of himself as he sees it now.
Same with you! When you can truly see this OM as the dirt bag he is, and not who he was years ago, then you'l wipe his memory out of you mind for good!
If someone threatened your childrens lives you would be like a tiger at them. But this is just what OP do to families and WS's think nothing of it at the time.
Basically, they're silently saying your kids and H and family are dirt to be dumped!
Beleive me, it's true!
So you have to decide how and when to tell your H. And how you are going to make it up, re earn trust and swallow a lot of guff.
But, that's the price of fleeting fame, isn't it?
mostly my letter here has been about how to turn off OM in your mind. Doesn't matter if you now say you're not thinking on him, it's the way you think when you do and that has to change. Seeing him as he really is will assure your future is safer and more peaceful in mind and spirit.
I have seen so much of this from old class reunions and looking up old HS friends that I'm sick of the sites that offer this online.
People! THIS IS NOW, NOT YESTERDAY AND YOU'RE NOT 16 OR 18 ANYMORE. Do not go back to something that was never real life.
HS years have no comparison to the years of marriage, kids, trials gone through and building of lives together.
I refuse to go to reunions or let my H now. His 45th was this year and we both agreed, no way.
Oh, I didn't tell him he couldn't. I just made sure I wouldn't be around anymore in his life again. Choices!
There really ought to be a site dedicated to disspelling these old reunions, reliving past lives and telling people the risk.
OW told my H what beautiful children they would have had together. Well, I pointed out to my H what a beautiful son we created and what two beautiful children he had with his first W. Forget what they might have had. Live in todays real time!
While he thought she really loved him, she was suggesting things that would have brought separation from all his 3 kids. None would have anything ever to do with him again, nor would grandchildren, Or my daughter and her kids!
Actually, believe it or not, it might have cost our son his life because he is insulin dependent and she was suggesting my H steal all our assets and leave me with only half SS when I was old enough. Couldnt' be done under our laws, but she even sent him info to transfer monies to offshore accts to hide it.
Our son is an adult, but out of work and no insurance. Without insulin he'd die! That wouldn't happen but it shows how little anyone mattered in H's family.
Take a good hard look at these people WS's think love them. It's the most deceptive game of all.
They use you for a thrill. My H wouldn't have left me but she thought she could convince him with her lost charms.
He was stupid enough to play the game for a short while. Almost cost him everything he had built in 29 yrs, now 31 between us and family.
It has cost him the respect of his children for they have no contact now for over a year. No grandchildren will come to see him.
OR me so I suffer as well. All due to some piece of crap not worth shoveling in the sewer.
Get the picture? I'm trying to help you conceive of this OM as the real villian he was and is. So you're mind is finally free to give your H 100% of you, Heart, mind, body and spirit. It's the only way to rebuild a strong foundation.
God bless, LouLou

LouLou: Our MC, Todd Mulliken, has written a book about affairs that discusses issues of control in marriage and how it affects the dynamics of marriage and makes both the controller and giver vulnerable to affairs. It is called "The State of Affairs". I recommend it.

LouLou,
In response to your posting, you are absolutely right. I was living in a fantasy of "what if and what might have been." I know for a fact I would not have been happy with OM. On many occasions, I found him immature and irritating. During the entire A, I would remind myself of this and how I felt. The OM is very self-centered and EXTREMELY moody. It's always his way or the highway. What baffled me the most was how I would talk to him about sinning and adultery. I told him I felt horrible and like a hypocrite even sitting in church. He claimed to be a profound Christian and preached to me about intimacy and how it was the most important connection a couple could share. But look what he did in the end? He screwed somebody on a Saturday (who he met from the Internet and it was their first date) and told me on Monday how much he loved me and thought about me. I fell in his trap, I'll admit, but I let it happen. I know the difference between right and wrong. I knew I was sinning. I knew I was betraying my family so I have no excuses. OM filled an EN and instead of talking to H and vice versa, I turned to OM.

What OM did has helped me to get over it easier. I still sway back and forth with emotions. When I found out about him posting an internet ad and dating, I was in complete shock. I hated him but part of me was relieved because then I knew the turmoil in my life was going away. Part of me still thinks about the fantasy part of it all and misses the need he filled. You are right, it wasn't real, it was fantasy.

I found when I have been at the lowest times in my life, it has made me rise up and face things and turn it around. I'm hoping and praying that this is one of those times. I want to have my marriage blossom and I want my family close.

As for OM, he's the loser. His D is final, his kids and X are 2 hours away, I'm sure every night he sits down to chat online because he's insecure and can't let people know the real him, and I'm sure he's still having sex on first dates with fantasy people from the internet. Oh, he does have a good job. Did I mention he posted his 6 figure salary on his profile ad? Insecure, like I said.

Sure, I'm angry and hurt but have pretty much let it go. I figure the best revenge is for me to lead a happy and fulfilled life which I fully intend to do with my H. There are times when I get triggers of the good times me and OM had and that draws me back. I work every day on looking in the future with my H and never look back. LouLou, your posting makes me see OM much clearer also. Thanks!!!