I think I know what your answers are going to be but I need to ask the question. I am WS and there has been a D-day. We've stayed togeter despite the devastaion to BS sought MC and read a few books. I've played down the A and even though it was both EA and PA I really haven't told the whole story to my W because I didn't want to cause further devastation nor did I want OW's life to be destroyed as well. I am still trying to loosen the bonds between OW and myself. She ended the A and shortly after my w discovered the A. OW and I eventually resumed contact by phone and e-mail but that is now offically over too. W and I have made significant progress but of course there is a long way to go. I am very frightened:( and feel I have more of a chance in preserving our m if I keep the "big" details to myself. I just cannot see how "telling all" will make our situation better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

In what way have you downplayed it? Does she know it was both or just one? Just need a few more details.

Tell you W that you are more than willing to answer any further questions she may have regarding the A. By doing this you are showing her that you have nothing to hide. Keep in mind that many BS's make the decision not to ask their FWS's for the gory details about the encounters between them and the OP's for fear of the mental images that may come to haunt them from time to time. Your W may belong to this group of BS's and if you try to force the whole truth without her asking you for it, you may end up further harming her emotionally.

Hiker,
As I said in you other post yesterday, you just need to be honest. Answer all of HER questions. Like TMCM said, If she doesn't ask don't tell. She is not asking for a reason. That is not being dishonest, it is being smart. But be prepaired to answer the tough ones if she asks, honestly, not the I don't want to hurt my wife verson. I HAVE asked the detail questions to my husband and he would not answer me. At first I really wanted to know, but now I think I am glad that he didn't tell me. Somtimes I still wonder, thinking that it would help me to understand???? Good luck. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I agree with the others - tell her the truth to what she asks.

You took away many of her rights to decisions when you had your A. Allow her to make the choices in what she feels she needs/wants to know.

Let her know that, while you understand it will be hard for both of you and most of it will mostly likely hurt to hear, that you are willing to be open and honest and answer any and all questions she has for you. Also let her know that in the same token you hope that she will allow you to be there to help her through her thoughts and emotions with regards to this. Let her know you want to help you with it, and you want to be there for her. That while you don't want to hurt her, you are willing to share these things with her if that is what she wants and feels she needs.

Our MC told us that my DH has the right and deserves to have a tell all session, when he is ready, and that I owed it to him to be open and honest and answer all his questions. Sometimes I wonder, when I look back, who it was harder on - see, not only was he facing this ugly truth, hearing these awful things I had to say, but I was in turn seeing the evil in me very clearly for the first time. I was sitting there, opening myself up to him and saying here I am, in all my ugliness, this is what I have done, I am vulnerable and open to your ridcule and disgust, and I deserve every bit of it. It was scary, very scary. However, instead of looking down on me all the more, instead of taking advantage of my vulnerablness, my DH respected me for being so sincere in my desire to rebuild.

Another thing that is hard for the WS to accept in being honest is that now it is the BS who has the sole choice in what happens. The fate of your M lies in your BS hands. You once took that away, and now it is you that has to give that right up. Believe in the love you share and the desire the two of you have already shown in wanting to rebuild your marriage.

Believe me, it is not easy to go this route, but it really can and does help. Allow her to exercise the rights you once took away from her. I bet that you will be surprised to see that once you respect her enough to give her these rights back out of love and respect, you will see that she won't take them up against you.

I hope this helps. I wish you all the best. You have a long road ahead of you still, but trust me, it is well worth it.

Once again all of you have been very helpful. I felt if the question isn't asked there was no need to tell. I have been staight foward with the anwers to the questions that were presented to me by W. Our MC hasn't suggested a "tell all" session but if I have to I will comply. Each day I am even more determined to become whole again as a person H and hopefully rebuild our M.

Good luck Hiker.... I love your name by the way.

Pep

Just to clarify - the *tell all* session was more of a Q&A. Our MC suggested that I need to be able to allow my DH the chance to just sit down and ask all he needs/wants to know at one time. Even if things are being repeated, that an all at one time will accomplish more. So, we did that one night. I listened a lot to his feelings and thoughts. I answered all his questions as clean and clear as I could. There were tears, and lots of hugs. No yelling though. It was actually nice, and it brought us a long way. However, the key to it was when DH was ready to do it, and asked for it. This Q&A was all in his control.

I wish you all the best. Take care and good luck.

Hiker,
well it really depends, how much you tell.
You know your wife better than anyone else and therefore you will have to decide what to do.

I myself am the BS. I wanted to know "EVERYTHING".
I wanted to "relive" the story and I wanted to know all details. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

It was $ell, for sure and yet, I must say the following: due to the fact that I know all details without leaving anything out, I know what I have "forgiven" my WH for.
My WH knows that I "love him" even though he did and said such "horrid" things. Even though he "broke my heart".
He took the risk of loosing me but I told him from beginning on that the most important thing for me was to learn about the truth, the full truth.
I wanted to know the complete story and I didn't want any "puzzle pieces" missing.

He will never have to have the fear that anything "I don't know" about will come into our lives again and I'm more than gratefull for this fact.
Because every new detail (no matter how little) kills and the pain comes "full-blast" again.

We are now almost 3 years into recovery and the "pain" is actually going away.
Even though it has taken a long time, I'm happy that we were able to go through this "terrible" experience as a team.
I respect my H because he showed so much courage to open up and tell me everything.

He understood that only by "opening up" completely he too would find his inner peace. He understood the fact that I love the "true him" with all the mistakes he had made, all the lies he had told and all the pain he had caused.

He understood that "true love" will get over this, it's just a matter of time and patience and complete honesty.

We both have learned alot during the past .
We both have grown and we both have made changes within ourselves.
We are both thankfull that we were able to go through this all with complete honesty and openess and I love my H even more for the man he has become.

So, Hiker, decide for yourself, what you will do.

Do you want to open up completely and share the complete story with your BS without leaving out any details or would you rather keep the details to yourself and live your life knowing that your wife doesn't "know" the real you and she isn't "forgiving" what really happened but only what you have decided to let her know.

I can truely understand how terrible it must be and is to "open up" completely and how embarrassing it is to "tells things about yourself" that you never would of dreamt of telling and yet, I as a BS can say, I'm prowd of my H and I'm prowd that he was able to tell me the whole terrible story and not hide anything.

I have learned that he is human and that he made terrible mistakes and yet we have grown closer and our relationship has become more than unique.

We went through this together as a team and we worked through the ups and downs as a team without having to "hide" the "flaws" within ourselves. We know who we are and we know who we are loving. The good sides and the bad sides as in "good days" and "bad days".

This just takes time, lots of time and patience.

take care and I wish you the best <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
bb

BB,

You sure have opened my eyes up alittle bit. I always wanted to know the details, then thought it was maybe best that I didn't, but you have put a new swing on that. The whole "I know what I am forgiving him for" part. I never thiught of it in that way. I will give more thought into asking him again. He wouldn't tell me the first time. I doubt he will if I ask him again. But thanks for opening up my eyes.

It is good to read your responses they have given me new insights and courage. My W compiled a wole "data base" on the affair. She wrote down the dates and times of all phone messages and text messages, she did this by requesting copies of past bill because I had destrouyed the originals. Did the same with e-mails (e-mails were what led to the discovery). So she had a great need for information and I did give her as much as she requested but haven't volunteered anything that was not requested. She has said she can't believe that I am "over" OW and as I have said here I am not( I have said this to W as well) but I am determined to be over OW so that I can have a real marriage again.

Oh and another thing I wanted to mention. I too had a great need for information.
Dates and whateve else. It was so important for me to be able to ask over and over again, the same things just to find my inner peace.

If my H would of left out details, I wouldn't of been able to "calm down" inside, it would of gotten me "torn up" all over again.

Once my H "really got it" and once he really understood that all these questions, were not to make him suffer or to torture him but to "help me" get over this "trauma"
this was when our recovery went on "full-speed.

I once wrote something in "Recovery" about when my H told me the complete story. We drove around the whole night. He showed me places where he and OW met.
He told me what they did and where. He tryed his best to explain the feelings he had at that time.
That night we cryed in each others arms.

It was so terrible and wonderfull at the same time. It was a nightmare and a dream. This is so difficult for me to describe but the night my H told me the complete story almost made me die and on the other side, I had never felt so close to my H.

I think the fact that my H was able to see and feel the "pain" I was going through really opened his eyes.
He had it all and almost threw it away.

The fact that he had always "shyed away" from being totally honest because he didn't want to hurt me, hurt me even more. .

So the evening when he opened up and honestly told me everything, was an absolute relief for him even though he saw the dreadfull pain he had caused.

This is what has totally changed in our marriage. My H has learned to never again "shy away" from telling me his true feelings. It will not help anyone to "hold back" true feelings and thoughts.
Even if it might hurt a little, it will be respected because it is being done in the act of "total honesty and openness".

I want to really know the man that I love. I want to love him for who he is and not for who I think he is.
This is what I told my H at the beginning of our recovery.
If you prefer not to tell the whole truth, you will never know how much you are really being loved because you are "hiding" your true self.

take care and hugs
bb

OMG you have given me great insight as to what has been going on inside my W. So often her questions were torture for me and I did "shy" away from answering them. Partly to protect her but additionally that I might put some distance between me and OW. It was too painful for me to talk about her, it would have been easier if OW had died. Knowing that she was so near and not really wanting me in her life anymore was almost more than I could bear. To go back to the places she and I spent time at would be a monumental feat for me and I think more tham my W could handle. Fortunately she hasn't asked for that. In some strange it sounds like a wonderful experience. Perhaps I might be able to grow enough to be as big as your H... he is a hero

Hiker, as the others said, please tell her EVERYTHING. She will not recover if you hold back or act like a hostile defense witness who only answers direct questions. That will FURTHER destroy any remaining trust and make it very hard for you both. You need to be doing things to REBUILD and being as open and honest as possible will be a great step in that direction.

And yes, it will be painful for you, but it will be MORE painful if she drags it out of you in dribs and drabs month after month. Believe me, it is coming out one way or the other. You can brace yourself now and get it all out, or hide crap [which is cruel to your W] and she will wheedle it out eventually. The latter will be like dying a death of a thousand cuts because every time a new little tidbit comes out, you BOTH go right back to D-Day.

Much better to get all the ugly stuff out NOW and take the hit NOW so you can start recovering.

And this is so important: neither one of you will start recovery until it ALL COMES OUT. So, you can start now or you can start later.

She has a right to know it ALL, since it is HER LIFE. To withhold it is cruel and manipulative. And with all due respect, you are the last person on earth who is qualified right now to determine WHAT is in her best interest. The entire truth, and nothing less, is in her best interest so she can have all the facts about her life and protect her interests.

I wish you the best, Hiker, it sounds like you are on the right track and have the right attitude. Please just brace yourself and do the right thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ October 09, 2003, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I know the problem of dribbling out info. I didn't want to reveal the ID of OW but I eventually did. It was too humiliating to watch W sit at OW's office waiting to see a familiar face. I am listening to all of you. Thanks for the support and advice

Hiker,

I don't know why but your thread has somehow really stricked me.
I have hardly posted here lately and yet I have the urge to share the following with you and I hope it will help you and your wife for the future "hard days" that will be coming up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I met my H when I was 14, he was the love of my life. I felt sooo safe and secure. He meant the world for me and I was "more than sure" that he knew this all along.

Years went by and I had never "feared" that I would ever loose the "safe feeling" that we had always shared.
My H was my "absolute" hero and I adored him.

D-D was the worse experience that I have ever went through. It tossed my "COMPLETE" world.

Please "understand" that what I am trying to explain is not to make you feel bad nor is it meant to "hurt" you. It's only about "MY" feelings and the feelings that (I believe) all BS go through.

The moment I, as a BS found out about my WH affair, our worlds "Split".
There were now 2 sides with a high wall inbetween.

My WH that felt "defended" when I asked him questions and I felt hurt because I had to "feel" these feelings that I never would of "dreamt about" if he hadn't of brought this into our life.

So what I am trying to say is, it is more than important to "understand" that BS cannot just "get over" and "stop" feeling these feelings
without the help of the WS.

It's a long process but if you take it seriously and do it thoughly, the outcome can be "more" than you (WH) have ever dreamt about.

There were times when I knew that I wasn't being "fair" to my WH and yet it was as if I needed to "test him" to see if he truely meant what he was telling me.
I was always "expecting" him to "pack up" and tell me: I'm leaving and I'm going to OW.

It never happened and again I feel great "respect" for my H that he "held in" and went through all these tuff and rocky days together with me.

I will NEVER have the trust and safe feeling that I once had but I am able to trust enough to feel comfortable and calm again.

My H "understands" this even though he "feels" different. He never "lost" the "trust and safe feeling" so I quess he will never truely be able to "feel what I feel at times". But he has learned to "trust" me when I tell him that I am not playing games when the "pain" pops up.

I just need him to "calm me" and to give me a hug and things turn better again.

I am gaining my self-confidence back again, this seems to take ages but I am feeling that it is returning again.

Even though we have had extremely "terrible" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> days, I am "gratefull" that my H was able to "open up" and tell me the truth.

He is now able to "sit back" and enjoy what we now share and he doesn't have any "secrets" that will haunt him or throw us back again.

Another thing that "comforts" me is the feeling that "there is NO story" between my H and OW that only "they" share.
The "wall" and all the "windows" have been broken down and opened, therefore I am able to look back and know exactly what happened and "why".

When I now feel the pain "arriving" I am able to just go to my "hubby" and get my hug and "warm smile". He knows what I am going through and I am able to feel that we are "bonded" and this gives me the feeling of "safety".

I don't have to ask him any questions anymore, I'm over that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care and give your wife a "Warm" Hug! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

bb

I feel like I've gone through D-day all over again. I decided to share with W that I was still "hung up" on OW. I tried to give W insight as to why I was sharing this now. In part it was because I wanted her to know so that there would be 1 less secret for me to keep and she would know why I've been "down" as of late. I explained that I had started going to a group to help me overcome my attachment to OW so that I could improve our marriage. I didn't think that it was realistic to expect W to be happy about the revalation but I didn't expect what I got which was more like the inquisition. She wanted to know why I didn't tell her I was going to the group meeting. I explained that wasn't going to keep it a secret and I haven't kept it a secret. She doesn't understand my attachment to OW.Hell I don't understand it. I don't think she completly grasps the concept of EA and thinks you can only have that kind of attachment if it was only a full blown PA. I've tried to give W (I've tried for years) some insight to me, I am an ACA, and how that messes up our perspective and how easily we become attached to others. She knows that I have grappled with this for years. I expected better results from yesterday's communications (I guess you can call it that). As I left this AM all I got was the "cold shoulder", I am this emotional mess, I ride share, and so I put on my TGIF face for him, leave a message for our MFC and collapse at my computer.

PS
I feel like staying home from counseling tonight and not going to the "loss of relationship" group tommorow.I am working very hard to undo but it seems like I am trying to fill a bottomless pit.

GO to counseling, it's important to be around understanding people.

Your wife's anger is probably less about WHAT you said, than about that you kept it secret for so long. You've told her now...MUCH BETTER than her finding out on her own. Let her know that, that you wanted to tell her and she didn't find out another way. Tell her you wanted there to be no more secrets left that only OW and you shared. It's like keeping the betrayal when you keep secrets that only you and OW know about.

This is the consequence of your actions...this is what you had feared was going to happen almost from the onset of your A. It's happening now...and you are going to make it through.

Hiker-

I'm so proud of you for telling the truth.

Your wanting to withdraw from the world is a safety mechanism that you learned as a child. You want to cut off from what you've done because you are afraid. That emptiness will lead you to being full for the first time in your life, but you have to go through it.

The only way to fill up the emptiness is to feel the emptiness. I know that this sounds very strange to you, but it's exactly what happened to me. The more you fight that despair, the more depressed and exhausted you will become. The fact is, you need to reach bottom. The emptness doesn't go on forever, there is an end to it. Once you hit bottom, you will start to truly mourn.

Go to the counselor, tell him what you feel. Open your pain up and let it flow out in this session.

You are exactly where you need to be.