Mortar Man,

Hello. It has been suggested that I get in touch with you. I'm currently in plan B and having a tough time of it. My story is over on the JFO board, but allow me to give you a brief overview here. I'm a 27 y.o. guy living in Minnesota, I'm the BS. My wife is 26, she is the WS. We've been married for 3 yrs. and have been together for 5. We have two little boys (4 and 2-1/2) who are the light of my life. I'm a mechanical designer by trade, my WW was a stay at home mom. I say was because she has now re-enteredthe working world. We moved into our house (first for both)about a year ago. This spring we got to know the nieghbors pretty well and hung out with them often. My W developed a particularly close friendship with the divorced guy two doors down from us. Our situation is increadibly textbook in terms of: the conditions in our M that led us here, the conditions in our nieghborhood, the conditions of her friendship with OM, what she has done, what she has said, her reactions to what I've done to save the M, you name it. We are almost exactly like the example of Jon and Sue in the book SAA. Anyway, suffice it to say, she is having an A with this guy. I have no proof of anyhting physical happening, however she has slept over at his house several times. A couple of times she lied to me about where she was going, but lately she doesn't even try to hide it. I did a plan A for about 3 wks. We had a particularly confrontational incident where I video taped her being dropped of at her car at 6:00 a.m. one morning by OM (she told me she was at a girlfriends house and would be home later) and she mvoed out. She lives with her folks now and on the strong advice of Jenn (with MB) I moved to plan B. This brings us up to where we are now.

We have been in plan B for about a month now. I have struggled with it from the start and am only now startng to get a grip on it. The only times I see her are when we are exchanging the kids. When I talk to her it is short and to the point. Well, it has been this way for the last couple of days anyway. I was finding myself getting dragged into conversation and idle chit-chat with her. She used to come over to our house and hang out with the boys. I told her she couldn't do that anymore. I've put some good boundries in place with her and have done a "so-so" job at enforcing them. I have cut her off of all needs being met by me, including anything financial.

Here is the problem, I love her more than anything in the world. I want her back more than anything in the world. How and the hell does one do a good plan B???? I think I understand the various aspects of plan B, but how do you do it? I can't stand not having her in my life, not talking to her or kissing her goodnight. She's not there to talk to when I get home, I can't talk to her on my lunch break...or the other 4 or 5 times a day that she used to call! There are so many things that I took for granted or found mildly annoying that I just really miss now. How does one get through this? What worked for you?

<small>[ October 30, 2003, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

WantMyWifeBack, I'm sorry I have no advise to give. I too am wondering how you can stay strong in this situation knowing that at any moment you might be able to get that little bit of relief (or so it seems at them time..) if you just allowed them..& yourself..to have the "little (& they really aren't that little) things" back.

Ex: kissing her goodnight..spending time without the kids being around..watching movies together perhaps..things like that. Things I've had a imagionable hard time straying away from in order to be where I'm at today.

I will be following your post hoping that someone here will heed us both the best advise. I strongly believe in the long run..holding off and staying strong..will be our best bet. She will realize what she's missing when the fog lifts. I know you've heard that before..but I really believe it is true.

I got a letter from WH last night. You wouldn't believe it..never good with words..never wrote to me or expressed a pince of the feelings he wrote to me(letter pertained to him not appreciating what he had..how he thinks now how lucky he was that I ever chose him..etc..).

Crushed me all over again..I started to give in and write him a "reassurance" letter back I thought about it though..he only wanted what he couldn't have..when he already had it..so why should I reassure him that after all this I'll be waiting in the guidlines. (he is not seeing anyone..but still!)

So..needless to say..I'm getting somewhere even if it doesn't seem like it. Mind you..only after I continued contact only through our young children..& leaving during their visits.

Stay strong..and god bless you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hey Finding,

Thanks for the resonse. I'm hopeful of the same sage advice as you are. My story is pretty well chronicaled on the JFO board if you wanted to take a look. Sounds like we all have a pretty typical story though. I'm sorry youare here in this position. I'm not familiar with you or your story, but I read your sig line. Sounds like you've had a rough couple of months as well. I wish you strength and clarity. Hang in there.

Good Luck!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Want My Wife Back:
<strong> I think I understand the various aspects of plan B, but how do you do it? I can't stand not having her in my life, not talking to her or kissing her goodnight. She's not there to talk to when I get home, I can't talk to her on my lunch break...or the other 4 or 5 times a day that she used to call! There are so many things that I took for granted or found mildly annoying that I just really miss now. How does one get through this? What worked for you? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Want, I think MM can help much in this aspect because he has been through all this.

I will just say that Plan B is not easy, but it is productive. It is very hard, as you are seeing, to withdraw from a person. BUT, it gets easier as time goes on and you will experience peace. [edited to clarify: a SEMBLANCE OF PEACE]

It is much harder to stay in contact with a WS who in the throes of an affair because you have to have your nose rubbed in it day in and day out. Now THAT is really hell.

Many Plan B'ers actually experience a level of PEACE being out of that whole mess. The important thing to remember is that while it is not easy, Plan B is your BEST HOPE of recovery right now. Its about like quitting smoking, you know quitting is very healthy and all for a good purpose, but the withdrawals are HELL! It is the same principle, Want. Just come here every day and cut loose on us. Use this board as a venting board and source of support. This WILL GET better!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The only times I see her are when we are exchanging the kids. When I talk to her it is short and to the point. Well, it has been this way for the last couple of days anyway. I was finding myself getting dragged into conversation and idle chit-chat with her. She used to come over to our house and hang out with the boys. I told her she couldn't do that anymore.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think just SEEING HER might be making it harder for you. It makes it much harder to withdraw when you are constantly seeing her and dragged back into your grief. Can you drop the boys off without seeing her and/or just send them out on the porch when she comes for them? Any conversation with her will just make it harder for you.

<small>[ October 30, 2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I hope you sent a PB letter. You didn't say. Everyone here had to kick my sorry butt a couple of times around the block before I would do it -- because I was sure my H would find it weird -- but it changes the dynamics FOR YOU. It makes it very clear, and written down, what you want. It makes the path back very clear for her.

It sounds like you are in the same crazed situation I am in: I can't stand the passivity. I can't stand having nothing I can do in this situation anymore. I hate waiting.

All I can advise is the same thing everyone else does: start living your own life. Take up some new friends, some new hobbies. I sent PBL a little over a month ago, H moved out six months ago, the A appears to be on the fritz. It's only now that I'm beginning to make long-term plans and goals without him in the picture as a possibility.

Yes, I gave her a plan B letter. It was up on the JFO board for critique, she read it there while it was up. I gave it to her about a week later when she moved out. So, I know she has it. She goes back and forth...admitting it is an EA (she insists that nothing physical has happened) and denying it, saying they are just friends. I don't think she takes it seriously, the latter or plan B that is. It was a damn good letter too, alot of people said so anyway.

She seems to be coming around, respecting my boundries with the house and not talking to me too much (only as necessary about the kids). It just feels like this is exactly what she wants, and not at all what I want. It hurts and it sucks. I'm the lonely-est I've ever been. I miss her so much. At least when she was home and hating me I had her company. I got to hear her laugh, even if it was on the phone with OM. I got to steal a whiff of how her hair smelled (maybe I'm just wierd, but I like the way her hair smells), I got to lay next to her at night and listen to her breathing. All the stuff people do that everyone takes for granted, I miss it so much. I just want her back.

WMWB -

Look, dood. Plan B is all about getting your head screwed on straight. It's majorly crooked right now because of all the pain you've been through. You have GOT to take this time to recover. Are you on anti-depressants? Do you pray or meditate? Do you have a solid exercise regimen in place? GET OUT OF YOUR HEAD!! (I mean that in a good way, don't go out getting drunk, please.)

I know you're hurting. And let's look at reality for a minute. YOUR WIFE IS GONE. Okay? I know it hurts, and it is also real. There is a person who walks, talks, smells, dresses, and acts like your wife. She is NOT YOUR WIFE right now.

And while you're waiting for a metamorphosis that may or may not take place, there is not one thing you can do about it. This watched pot is NOT going to boil with you hovering over it.

So instead, make a list, check it twice (yes, Christmas is coming; what are you going to do that you love to do with your kids and the rest of your family, 'cause you sure don't want to be moping that day!) and get that inner voice in your head to shut its trap for a while.

You need a break from all of it. So take one! You deserve it.

Just an update, my WW found (and is moving into at this moment) and apartment in our town. I saw her this morning when I dropped off the kids and we shared a big hug. She told me that she was thinking of coming back to the M, but decided that was the wrong thing to do. We cried together for about 10 minutes.

Major plan B breakdown on my part, I know.

MortarMan, how did you do this? I've been told that I'm having much of the same troubles you had and are making many of the same mistakes. Any advice?

The way I viewed Plan B (and still view it) is a total denial of meeting the WS's Emotional Needs. She is then forced to have ALL her needs met by the OM, and he will fall WAY short.

Everytime you give her a chuckle, a look, a fact about your life, chit chat, a feeling, you are feeding her an EN she can't get from the OM and enableing her to hold out that much longer with him (she got her fix of you).

This feels wrong, because whereas she's getting some of her needs met, you are getting none of yours. The firmer you hold out, the faster she will wake up. He won't be all she needs...she will/is miss(ing) you.

She wants you both, and is feeling you out. Sorry to be sexist here, but women can be sometimes very socially skilled, which means we can manipulate a situation...a flip of our hair, a lean with our body, and we can draw a man in. When you both talked/cried the other day, she was getting her fix of you and can hold out that much longer now.

This is time for you to get used to not having her around too. So that if she doesn't come back...you'll be prepared.

Hey Want...

Sorry to be late. Been real busy this week!

Okay, how did I do it? First off, you have been given some VERY GOOD advice above. But most of it is in generalities...very good guidelines. But I know what you are asking...what specifics? How does the rubber meet the road?

First off, stop trying to figure your wife out. You aint gonna be able to do that. She will deny, admit, go crazy, want to come home, want to end it, want to become President of the United States (okay...I am trying to put a littlelevity into this...but you NEED it right now). The point is that you are in Plan B. Plan B is about YOU...about boundaries and moving forward and getting your stuff together. Just like everyone else has said. But, wait a minute...easier said than done, huh? Oohhhhh...I know. All the nights in the failed Plan Bs where I would curse those on here telling myself that they didnt know what they were talking about...that I was playing right into my wife's hands...that NC is exactly what she wanted.

First rule of a WS: THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEY WANT! They can look you square in the eyes and totally mean it...and still not mean it. This is why you have to trust this stuff. Go back and read my threads from last fall in my failed Plan Bs. Then look at when I finally got it together in December and January. See what the difference was. Everytime I went to Plan B, she responded. Everytime I fell out of Plan B without the PBL conditions being met, she fell back in.

Rule #2 of WSs: IF THEY ARE STILL IN CONTACT WITH OP, THERE IS NO CHANCE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE BS. So, understand that until she meets the conditions of Plan B, then nothing she says or does means anything of substance...one way or the other.

Want...you need to start reading. Read about Mimi and her failed (and then successful Plan Bs). Or TM94. Or many others on here. See that your wife is not unique in this...that her "illness" (read "addiction") has the same symptoms and cures as everyone else's WS. This should bring you comfort.

Now, I am going to give you a little glimpse into what will happen to the WS in Plan B. But only a little...otherwise Just Learning will slap me with the 2x4 (because YOU need to be concentrating on your life...not your wife's right now). But, it may provide you a little comfort knowing what she is oging thru.

Do you know what she is going thru right now? HELL! Sure she is probably having those "highs" with the OM or being alone or whatever. But there are also the lows. There are ALWAYS the lows. It is in these times that she will reach out to you, to cushion the fall and make the lows easier. You may think that is the loving thing to do but it is not. That just allows her to continue in this, continuing the pain of all involved. No, NC allows her to fall flat on her face in the lows...which is EXACTLY where she needs to be!

Have you ever heard the saying "God whispers to us in our pleasures, but shouts at us in our pain?" Well, she isnt listening to reason, whispers or God. So pain it is for her.

You MUST not get in the way of that. For her sake. You must let go and trust this process, and trust God. You have NO control over this now, except maybe to lengthen the time she is in it or tomake things worse.

As she goes thru COMPLETE NC, she will have withdrawal from you. She will be fighting God. She will have very little peace, especially with the holidays coming up. She will soon (within weeks after going completely dark) react in anger, as you are keeping what she needs away from her. She will say you dont care, she will say that she was ready to come back but you have proven you cant be trusted. And a whole host of other psychobabble (fogese). Ignore all of this...she doesnt know what she is talking about and really doesnt mean it. She will threaten divorce...and then want you to help. Again, lether do all the work...more pain for her to endure.

After this time, she will go dark for a little while. She will try to get over you and move on...but she cant. She doesnt know how. So, soon after her going dark, she will begin to try to contact you in desperation. Even fighting with you will be less pain for her than NC. But you dont give in.

Now, this is when you must be ready...and is why up to this point, you are in darkness working on yourself. Because when she comes back at this point, she wont be demanding anything. She will stop acting like she knows what she is doing. This time, she will be asking questions. "How can we do this...how is it possible to overcome this...how are you so sure?" Then you will engage her, with the help of the PBL...and lead her home.

But, while all this is going on...what are you doing? Working on you...and your future. When reconciliation comes, you will need all your strength and time. Now is the time to et all those things done that you wont have time to do once she is home (lose weight/bulk up/repaint the house/get a new job/etc).

Now, you say "Well, what if she doesnt come home?" Well, I wont lie to you...that is possible. But Plan B wont make her not want to come home...if she doesnt, then she probably never would have. But the beautiful thing about Plan B is that if she doesnt, it wont matter. By the time you figure out she isnt coming home, you already have a new life. And you have strength again to lead that new life.

You must have faith in this process for it to work. Until you do, you will do what Mimi, NowWhat, and even I did for so long...extend this and make it worse. So, understand what is going on with her, read morehere about what that is on this site...and understand where you NEED to be before she comes home or you move on.

You are NOT ready for her to come home. You are NOT ready to move onto someone else. Plan B WILL get you ready for whichever befalls you.

In His arms.

Mortar Man,

Thank you for the response, you gave me a lot to chew on. Let me mull it over, as I'm sure to have about a million questions. Thank you.

I just wanted to thank you for your post. I've been struggling with the same things you are and reading the responses have given me a better outlook, especially what Morterman wrote.

I started plan B a little over a month ago. I broke it a couple of times and every time I'm set back farther.

I just want to say that when you go dark, go dark for you as well as her. What I mean is, don't think about her and what she is doing. I made that mistake and still do. I would ask my D's what their mom was doing, or how is your mom, etc. The things they told me, I really didn't want to hear and just made things worse for me. I recently told both D's that if I ask about their mom, I want them to tell me nothing, that it is not any of my business...

I see great similarities in what Morterman has said. I have messed up my plan B several times and when I do, I realize what all the other people say is true. I would think that my WW was different and I knew better than anyone else how she would react to things. I've been wrong!!! I'm one of those hard learners. You know, the ones that have to do things a few times before it really sets in. Trust me, I've made my fair share of mistakes and I am still very new to this.

An example: WW said she wanted to come home. She called all the shots and I let her because I just wanted her back. She didn't have to put forth any effort on her part and she didn't earn her way back. Not to mention, she came back for the wrong reasons. It wasn't for me but it was for the kids. I posted and many replied to me telling me that I needed to set boundaries and not let her come back unless she came back for the right reasons. Well, I know my wife better than anyone right? Not so, she is like any other wayward person. Yes, she is my W and I know so much about her, but right now she is not that person anymore. She is the wayward person right now and acts and does exactly the same as every other wayward person. So, anyway, back to my story. I let her come back even after all the great advice that was given to me, and 2 days later, she was with OM again. This is just one instance where I didn't listen to others. There have been more and every time, the things that I was told would happen happened. So, the moral to this story is, listen to these people that are trying to help you. They know what they are talking about. It'll save you a lot of pain and unneccessary suffering.

As far as getting through each day. I know that is a major challenge. But what has helped me is staying busy and trying not to think about WW. If I start to get depressed about WW, I make myself get angry at her. This may not be the best thing to do, but it helps me. I think of the worst things about the affair and I get pissed at her. I can hande anger better than I can handle depression. So, this seems to work for me. Sounds kinda crazy I know. But, what works for me may not work for you. You have to figure out what is best for you to stop thinking about her. I think time is the biggest thing that helps. And if nothing else, you have plenty of that. I still have a lifetime ahead of me, so even though I want my W to come back as soon as possible, I also know that there is plenty of time left. So, I try to use this time to do things I've wanted to do or continue my personal growth.

Find a good counselor. I found a not so good one, but because of the support system on this board, I've come a long way. My counselor has helped some but I am now looking for someone else. It's hard to do this on your own. Talk with family and friends and let them help you through this. But, just a word of warning, your friends and family don't want to see you hurt, so they may give you bad advice and try to steer you in the wrong direction. Its not that they don't care about your W, but it is because they don't understand the addiction of an affair. So, build a support system around you, but just be careful. Find a good counselor and get on some meds if you have to. I tried some meds but they just made me tired and I didn't like it. And one of the best things to do is read. Find some good books like, His Needs/Her Needs, Surviving an Affair, Divorce Busters, Torn Asunder. I even read a Dr Phil book. I can't remember the name right now though. I've learned a lot and still have much to learn. Again, that time thing comes in. We have plenty of it, so use it constructively...

I know I've rambled here. Didn't mean to steal your thread. Just wanted to throw out some things that I've learned. I know your pain, and I hope you will get through this. You are not alone. Along with family and friends, you have all of us here also. So, keep posting and know that you are not alone....

Ok, here is the latest update. I made a lot of people rather angry with me over on the JFO board with my actions this weekend. Hopefully you guys will see the strategic intentions of this...

I made a strategic decision Friday evening to take a step backwards into Plan A for the weekend. I fully realize that this probably will lengthen the time we are all hurting, and probably set back all the work I've done thus far. I'm fully prepared to start plan B from scratch.

Here's what I did. First off I got her some nice flowers for her new apartment. I told her that there were no other mptives behind it, just wanted to get her something for her new place.

Secondly, I wrote her a nice, elegant two page letter further expounding on the efforts and changes that I've made and how things will be different if she comes home. Also, I outlined a plan for recovery and basically layed out her options as I see them at this moment. Now before you all go off half cocked, I didn't give up the farm here. I told her in no uncertain terms that there were terms to be adhered to before she could come home. I expressed how much I love her and want another chance at saving our family and that I want to devote the rest of my life to being the best husband I can for her.

Thirdly, I helped her move some stuf over to her place. She has a cold and a broken foot, so I thought it was a nice jesture to offer a hand.

Finally, and this is gonna blow you guys away, I gave her some money for groceries. Not much, but enough to pick up some essentials.

Ok, now I can already feel anger and rage headed my way. Just calm downa asecond...let me explain my reasoning a little. First off, I think Mike is correct in that we didn't have a very long plan A. So I figured if I put all of my best intentions into a letter (which she can pull out a reflect on over and over again) it would serve as continual reminder of my love and adoration of her. I know, it alows her to take up nearly perminant residence on that fence. Eating fist fulls of cake..I understand. However, I figured that with the plan B letter and this new letter, she would really have something to think about when she is feeling down and miserable. Especially on Christmas, when I'll have the kids, I figure she'll really be reconsidering what she is doing. Also, i didn't expect her to make a decision over night, not at all. I told in the letter that I wanted her to finish moving in and get settled for awhile before even considering the offer. Also, i mentioned that I couldn't promise how long this offer would be on the table. I am getting on with life and life will be ok.

Now before the 2x4's start swinging, I just want to make it clear that this was not an emtional breakdown on my part. This was a case of looking at all the advice, looking at all the data on this site, looking at everything Jenn has said about common sense problem solving during all of this and forming a new game plan. So, I back peddled into plan A for this wekend. I WILL start Plan B II on Monday. I have started looking for an intermediary. I've made a list of people I think would be acceptable to my W and who i think would be willing to do it. I will begin to contact some of them this evening. I'm attacking this with a whole new resolve. Please trust me and bear with me.

In case you are wondering about her reaction to the letter, it was exactly as I expected. She dove head first back into the fog. She told me the next day that the letter really made her angry, but wouldn't explain why. I figure it adds just one more level of conflict and upheaval to her life. It gives her something to really make her question what she's doing. I really feel it was a good strategic move.

Ok, explanation over...standing tall with my chest out waiting for a full frontal assault. Go ahead, let me have it...

Want,

No 2x4s here. Go check my threads...you will see similar actions by me.

Now, what you have done. First off, the positive. More good stuff to remember you by. How do I know it was good? Your wife got angry. Anytime a WS in the fog is getting angry at nice jestures while they are in the fog, it is ALWAYS good. Another thing that was good was her depending on you. You helping her move in. I did the same with my wife. I even put together (since the kids were living with me) a big frame with about 35 pictures...with all of us together. She put it in her living room and her and OM had to look at me and the kids constantly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

So, some good stuff there. Good Plan A stuff! Now the negative to what you have done. First off, your word means squat right now. You gave her a Plan B letter stating the conditions...and then you showed her that you didnt mean it. So, while those thinks you did were nice, the flip side is that she now doesnt trust you further. How does she know things have changed? You said all of he stuff you said in the PBL, and now she feels that you dont mean it.

Now, I did say the things you did were good things and WILL affect her. But when? Right now? Nope. She is going to eat those groceries and not even think about who bought them. The OM might even partake also. She HAS TO put those things hidden in her mind, else she will be in pain. And the A is all about her not being in pain.

So, as long as you understand what you have done, then fine. Until she reaches bottom though, all of those actions will mean nothing. And bottom is a a long way off. When bottom is reached, then she will remember.

My wife said that the most important thing I did that brought her home is that I stood up toher (Plan B). That I said something and I did it. She could trust me again because unlike the flopping fish in Plan A, this guy in Plan B was someone who had his act together.

So, now that you have done it...DONT DOIT AGAIN UNTIL YOU GET TO THAT POINT WHERE SHE REALLY MEANS IT LIKE I OUTLINED ABOVE! Go dark right now and stay that way. Dont explain it. Point to the PBL anytime she even attempts to talk to you. GO DARK!

She is now headed toward the darkest areas of an affair. Lots of pain. You stay away!

In His arms.

MortarMan,

Thanks for the reply, and thanks for not swinging the 2x4... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Ok, I understand the bad points of what i did, I understood them prior to doing it. I know this will set plan B back to square one. That is a sacrifice I was willing to make in order to gain the good points you mentioned. It was a strategic operation, some sacrifice for some good. Not an emotional response, well planned action. Now, I'm in plan B II, gone dark.

Oh, by the way...I think you'll get a kick out of this, I brought her a spare VCR that we have and some movies for the kids when they are over there. She can't afford cable, so she has the rabbit ears and fuzzy local stations only. Included in the movies was a copy of the video of our wedding. I put it in the case backwards so the lable wasn't showing. I told her: "here are some movies for you and the kids..." then I walked away. I think that it will make her mad at first, but she'll end up watching it some day down the road when the fog is light.

I have a specific question about anniversaries. Mine is a week from tomorrow. What am I to do on that day? My plan was to have my folks watch the kids, take fistfulls of anti-d's and down a liter of Canadian whisky, when the bottle is dry I planned to take a fistfull of sleeping pills. Ok, that was sarcasm, but I'm not looking forward to that day. The way I see it, if I do nothing I will be looked at (by her and her folks) as cold and uncaring and it will be thought of as proof that I really didn't care and don't really want her back. If I do anything I will be abandoning my plan B and she will undoubtably be angry as it will be looked at as sappy, clingy, and no doubt a guilt trip. What did you do?

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

Want,

When you do nothing for her birthday, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and every other important day, you will be thought of the same way.

In regards to her, the anniversary is a non-event. She wants to be your wife and celebrate the anniversary, then fine. What is there to celebrate right now? What possible thing could she do? HHmmmmm?!?! Let's see. She buys you a gift, you have dinner with her and exchange gifts, all in celebration of something that she has trashed. Then after the nice evening together, she goes back and jumps in bed with the OM. Sound like something you want to do?

This is Plan B. She gets to miss EVERYTHING! Last Christmas, I had friends of mine takemy kids out and take the money I gave them in order to buy their presents forme. No way was I going to accept anything from my wife, even if it was from the kids. And guess what? Except for what her mother and her friends gave her, she got nothing else. Not from me...not from the kids.

Want...it is not your responsibility to support her in any way. Especially supporting her actions. Plan B allows you to take the family unit and the marriage and essentially put it behind a baricade to protect it. If she wants one ounce of it, then she will adhere to the PBL. Else...she gets nothing. This is where the pain comes in. the pain of missing outon family functions and holidays. Holidays are no fun when you only get to spend it with the OP...and then split time with the kids.

This is your WEDDING ANNIVERSARY you are talking about. She is nowhere in this marriage. Until she is...then nothing for her. Unless you want to send another copy of the PBL to her as a gift. The BEST gift she will ever get.

In His arms.

So are you telling me that I shouldn't get her anything from our kids for Christmas? Won't that be awefully hard on the kids? I'm sure she will get me something from the boys, even if it is a card they make and some cookies (I don't think she will have any money for presents anyhow). I don't want to punish the kids because of her actions. My kids are 4 and 2 1/2, I'm sure they will want to get something for their mom. What do i do here?

I understand that she gets nothing from me, not for Christmas and not for our Anniversary. But not from the kids? How do I NOT accept anything from the kids that she may have gotten or helped them make? Again, won't that make the kids feel horrible?

I think I understand the reasoning, and I'll do it if it's necessary, but how do you do it tactfully?

Sorry, double post.

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back ]</small>

i'm not going to disagree with mortarman one iota ... he's awesome. one thing i noticed about your last post that he mm seemed to overlook was the inclusion of your wedding tape.

of all the things you did in breaking plan B, that one -- i think -- was the worst. i don't think there's any way that it can be preceived by her as anything other than calculated (whether or not it was intended as such).

you will recover your mistakes by learning from them and implementing them into a well executed plan. you'll get there.

just my 2 pennies.

Want,

No, I am not saying you should hurt the children. They are already hurting.

During this, mine were 10, 8 and 5. They wanted to do something for their mother, and they did. Cards, posters, drawings...stuff like that they did on their own. What I am talking about is different.

Look, they know things are not right. They know their mother has lost hermind, so to speak. Even at that young age. They may not get the nuiances...but they know. So, my opinion is that your wife is going to have to jusitfy even to them what she is doing. My wife tried doing that. She tried to talk about the OM (who I would not allow my wife to bring the kids around). But the more and more she talked about it and tried to justify it, the more she looked silly in their eyes. And she could see that...which made it more painful and hurtful to her. Even her children could not accept what she was doing.

Sure, they love their mother. But here is the options for them. Either she never pulls her head out...and they WILL be stuck doing for their mother without the help from their father (and vice versa) OR their mother will recover her brain and will return home. But right now, she is not there. So, unfortunately, those children are getting a very small taste of what is to come for them if she keeps on this path. It is very painful for them.

But guess what? You CANNOT protect them from it. That was the hardest part of all of this...having my 8 year old daughter crying in my arms at night...feeling abandoned by her mother and everything her mother was and had taught her. But I could not protect her.

But guess what? That pain felt by those children was placed squarely on my wife's shoulders. She bore the brunt of it. She had to feel all of it. This is a major part of Plan B. She must feel all of her actions. And believe me, her children will make sure of that.

So, you dont discourage them. But you are not to do anything overt to help them in their relationship with their mother. Let her handle that. If she does something with them for you, of course accept it, because the children wont know why you are rejecting it. And then do what I did, which was send my wife an email telling her not to do it again...that I was fully capable of making sure the kids did something for me for my birthday, Christmas, etc.

Unfortunately, your wife has turned your family into a war zone. You take care of yourself and keep moving your family forward, just like the two of you were doing before. Let herdeal with her stupidity. As Steve Harley told me, those kids are your greatest asset. They wont lie to her. She will see the results of her actions on their faces.

And then she will have no excuses.

In His arms.