I've read in a few texts on rebuilding marriages after an affair that the WS is sometimes/often confused about what love is.

I am such a person, and sincerely I do not know if I love my spouse, or if I have for awhile now. Part of me thinks that the A awakened me to this, or perhaps the A has just caused me to doubt that I really love my spouse. (after all, if you have an affair, doesn't that suggest you don't really love your spouse).

This is making recovery almost impossible because when my spouse asks me if I lover her, I can only respond that I'm confused and that I don't know. As you can guess, this makes things even more difficult, especially for her. Not only am I the guilty WS, but I can't even tell her that I love her.

How can I figure this out? Hours and hours of reflection and "soul searching" doesn't give me any answers. Are there any objective, concrete ways I can perhaps tell what I feel about this? I'm lost.

Lex

Lex,

Have you read the book Surviving an Affair or His Needs/Her Needs by Willard Harley? If not, this may be a great starting point. These books explain how emotional needs are what drives you to feel the way you do. You and your W should fill out the emotional questionaire and figure out what emotional needs you have both been neglecting. When you (both of you) fulfill these emotional needs, you will feel the love that you have been missing. It will be better than that of which you felt in the affair, because your W is your soulmate... Just my opinion. Keep posting and maybe someone a little more qualified than myself can help you out. I'm glad you came here and you have made the first step towards recovery. Stick in there and keep posting. You have a great support group right here....

Hi again LexR,

I posted to you before when you first came here and I want to remind you of a couple of things. First, it is very common to want to have answers right away after an affair. Everything has blown up in your face,so to speak, and you and your wife are very hurt and confused because of the A.

It takes a long time to try and sort out everything so try to keep that in mind. I know your wife would like to know if you love her and you would also like the answer to that question.But there is a lot of work ahead for both of you as a married couple and as individuals if you want to explore why this happened and how to heal.

Second,I recommended or brought up a pertinent fact that I think a lot of people need to become more familiar with: it is humanly impossible to remain in the first stage of love(infatuation,"falling in love")as Dr.Phil states.

My belief is that we are so brainwashed to be a certain way in a relationship all the time from the way movies are made and all the billions of articles in magazines and "myths",etc. about love that we tend to think we have lost love when we didn't,it just "transmutes" as Dr.Phil says, to a deeper richer love. That is not to say that certain emotional needs may not have been met but to think that everyone goes through their whole lives with that infatuation feeling I think is untrue and scientifically isn't either from what I have read.These emotional "highs" are what we think of as true love but isn't a long lasting,commited love unless you take it that far.

All couples go through these different stages so no one couple is immune or "Soulmates" or whatever term people want to use to try to rationalize what has happened.Real life does come crashing in on EVERYONE at some point.People in affairs are living in "fantasy land",a bubble or whatever you want to say to describe the fact that they are ignoring the rest of the world and their responsibilities.

Of course affairs can cause you to doubt the love you have for your spouse. So can they cause you to lose your integrity,your human deceny,your responsibilities,you name it.For that initial emotional "high" people are creating a path of destruction and hurt for something that doesn't last.

*Hours and hours of soul searching are only the beginning. You have a long way to go now unfortunately because of this and you will continue to be lost if you don't get the right kind of help."Concrete" feelings are not an option right now,not yet.But getting that help and allowing yourself time is the best thing right now.

You need to logically,if not emotionally yet, tell yourself that what you experienced with the OW is not something "magical" or "meant to be" or that you were "soulmates" etc.An affair is a relationship that began out of dishonesty and a blatant disregard for your spouses feelings,etc.So you have to remind yourself that true love isn't born out of the pain and destruction of others.

You need to accept that "diagnosis" even if it is hard to do so.There is so much information out there that confirms this and we here are all able to tell you as well from our experiences.The next step is working your way back to your wife and that takes time.

Affairs happne not because people don't love their spouses but because emothinal needs are not being met and were therefore found in someone else. It is also partly due to the ways in which we were NOT taught, IMO, to create and keep our emotional needs met the right ways.

I have to believe that Dr.Harley and Dr.Phil,at least,for all the combined *years and *couples that they have counseled and marriages they have saved, know what it is they are doing so that is why I am here and have purchased their books to help me and my husband and our marriage.

October <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thanks to both of you.

I have a concern though.

One kind of affair is the so called exit affair. For me, in all honestly, I look back and see that the romantic love hasn't been there for years. I never dated around - I married the first girl I had a relationship with. I can't help but wonder if I've wanted out of this relationship for a long time but just never did anything about it.

Your response (and most others) always seem to say that saving the marriage is the best option. Is there ever a scenerio where saving the marriage isn't? It seems like you have a bias towards marriage saving, just as my in-laws do (except theirs are for hyper-religious reasons).

All I'm saying is I feel like the advice gets filtered through an enthusiastic "save the marriage!" filter and I can't help but wonder if going separate ways is the better alternative. How do I know if going separate ways is the better alternative?

Lex

LexR,

I don't think any one of us here is ONLY for marriage. Of course there are times when marriage does need to end.BUT,if everyone just up and left at the first conflict in a marriage,there would be a serious issue with regards to commitment and plenty more divorcees out there with scars in their heads and hearts.The same could be said for those who aren't even married,just in commited relationships.

Look,it may be easy for you to think the way you are now, that this affair may have been a "wakeup call" or that you have wanted out of the marriage for years or whatever.But the reality is: you have married your wife,made a commitment to her and it is your responisiblity to BE ABSOLUTELY SURE that every stone is unturned before you end the marriage.At least be fair and not hurtful to your wife in this one aspect,please.Especially if that is what she wants.

As Dr.Phil states, you have to earn your way out of marriage.You would no more give your car away if it suddenly had a flat tire than you SHOULD give up on marriage before trying to resolve this problem *first.

Regardless of religion being a factor here,we are talking about being an adult and treating others with their due respect and if you are looking for someone to tell you that it is alright go ahead and end the marriage so *you could feel better than nope,it is not going to happen. There are "2" people in this relationship, not just one and if we all selfishly did what we wanted without respect for others,well,we would all be by ourselves because who wants to be with someone who only cares about themselves??

I may sound a little harsh here and I don't mean to offend you but we call it "fog talk",You are trying to rationalize what happened,so it sounds.

*If you ask me, exit affairs are a COWARDS' way out of a marriage.Someone who uses an affair as an excuse to not try to work on a marriage and are less fearful of dealing with the fallout of an affair and ending a marriage than doing any work involved to try to save it or respecting the other spouse have no integrity or human decency at all.

They are doomed to repeat the same mistakes only with another person.

October

All I'm saying is I feel like the advice gets filtered through an enthusiastic "save the marriage!" filter and I can't help but wonder if going separate ways is the better alternative.

Now that's about the funniest thing I've read around here in quite a while... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You're funny but wrong...
very few believe in save the marriage at any cost...lots of good reasons not to stay together...
though there are lots of good reasons to stay together as well..

AND this website is not called marriagesavers...it's marriage builders....because that is exactly what marriage is a continual work in progress...

and it is my opinion lexr you somehow believe that that reality of marriage is different in your situation...

that somehow you should have a marriage without any physical work....
because you won't address that...you just want to remain philosophical.

So how is it going solving the age old question of what is love...
working out for you?...

do you take the old route...
I love therefor I am ?..
I prefer Monty Pythons I drink there for I am..but that's the Irish in me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Or is the quest and pondering enough to distract you from any action?

See Lexr you aren't even trying with your wife...haven't even begun to try...and ready to walk...

so you know what walk...and wrap it up in a pretty box of
I never dated anyone else...
I never did this....
I never did that...

and some people will even buy it...but when those go a little deeper and ask well what did you do in your marriage to change your feelings...
what will your answer be...

nothing I bailed...
or
well I actually did try this this this and that...and when I walked I felt I had tried everything...

you bailed on this marriage long ago...and entitle yourself to ponder how it got to the point it is today...

How do I know if going separate ways is the better alternative?

there you go chasing that illusive butterfly again...

truth is lex only you can answer that...
and not answering is as much as an answer as doing something about it either way...

It's all in your hands...life is what we make of it...not what is outside of us...

you want love in your life...create it ...

who sang the cheesy song..
making love out of nothing at all...

may be the closest answer to the truth there is...
it is what we make it to be..

YOu aren't making any of it...to busy sitting there doing nothing but thinking about it...

ARK

<small>[ November 20, 2003, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

Hello LexR,

I, too, am a FWH. I have had many of the same feelings you are having right now. I can relate.

My first response is to trust those around you. The ones who are removed somewhat from the situation. Not necessarily the in-laws, but don't just completely discount what they're saying, either. They are biased, but they also aren't in a "fog". What are your friends telling you? All of mine were telling me I was an idiot for thinking that my life would be any better with OW than with my wife. Different was all I could hope for. There would be just as much difficulty and hardship with OW as there may be with W, it would just be with a different person.

As to whether or not you love your wife, I can't answer that. Only you can answer that. One thing I've heard here before that helps is this...If there were no OW, and if the A wasn't a factor, would you still be thinking about leaving your W and ending your marriage? Honestly? That's an important thing to HONESTLY consider.

The other thing is this. I have only been in recovery for about six months now. My d-day was late May. But I've struggled with a lot of the same thoughts you probably have. Is what I feel for OW really love...what kind of love...do I still love my W....do I love her, but I'm not "in love" with her....etc., etc., etc. I just recently was able to answer some more of the questions. Hours and hours of reflection may seem like a lot, until you've had months and months of reflection. Some here have had years to reflect, and still wonder.

Without sounding like I'm tooting my own horn, take a trip over to "In Recovery" and read my latest post, titled, "My Epiphany". See if you can relate to any of it. Maybe it will help, maybe none of it will make any sense. But it's the result of six months of reflection on the part of a "soulmate" FWH. Here's a link to it: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=013096

Just my opinion.

Oscar

<small>[ November 20, 2003, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: OtG ]</small>

Lexr,

I wanted to apologize about my post, I was thinking about it last night on my way out...and thought...sheesh...someone comes and asks about love and I take a not so loving route to beat the guy on the head with a two by four.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

not cool on my part...

So lexr I am taking a different approach...IF you are really pondering the meaning of love..;

Then you should expand you horizon beyond what you know ...

seek out the books that all about love..
all kinds of love..

read works on Mother Theresa which at first glance seems intimidating at best..for who could even equal her humanity and abundance of love..but read the works of those who knew her best...for she was on who took the smallest of acts of deeds and found love in them and of them...
she speaks to the loniless in our own hearts and the need to fill it with love...

read leo Buscaglia...and though I havent' read the book mentioned below...I have read other things of his...

LOVING EACHOTHER
In this exploration of loving and living, bestselling author Leo Buscaglia addresses the intricacies and challenges of love relationships. He asks such important questions, as: How do we best interweave our lives with our loved ones? Do we change our way of relating depending on the circumstances: If we fail in one relationship, can we succeed in others? In this exhilarating book, Leo doesn't give pat answers. He presents alternatives and suggests behavior that opens the way to truly loving each other. He recalls with heartwarming detail the importance of his own family and friendships in helping him to be open to grow and to love.

Pray Lexr....too religious for you?...well pray that you find yourself..
sounds like you are way busy in your work.
sounds like you haven't been in touch with you or your home for a while..

sounds like you are lost in a lot of external things...trying to look at yourself internally...except you haven't taken much time to know your internal self...

It is through the tiniest of acts that we find love and we act out our love...and when we havent' viewed ourselves, our actions, and others in lives as loving beings in the simplest of terms then changing to do so is difficult...

Read The Road Less Traveled...

I am sure others have lots of good stuff...to suggest as well..

read Oscar Wildes book of Faerie Tales...

I am serious Lex...if you are serious about searching this out...then do the homework...

I wish you well on this journey..I hope you begin it...
I again apologize for my other post..and will delete it if it offends you as much as it offends me now..

ARK

Lexr

I'm a FWW who is also very confused now about what love is supposed to be. The OM in my case never said the word "love" to me and I wonder why I'm still holding on to the "fantasy" of what he made me feel when I was with him.

LexR and Lisa,

Please read the following threads &#8211; it is of valuable insight and will be very helpful to both of you:

The difference between the Fog and Love

Real/true love, ego boundaries, romantic love and feelings of love (also dependency)

Lex,

I know EXACTLY where you are coming from. I too married the first person to go out with me. In fact, I never really had any strong feelings for her even at the beginning, I just felt we got on ok and things were `ok`. I have always longed for more and thought I was making a mistake on the wedding day, then OW turned up and I discovered feelings I had never ever had before with my wife or anybody. OW then promptly found someone else and I guess i got a `taste of my own medicine` from that.

I could have said nothing and the wife would never have known, but I knew now so certainly that I had to confront things that I did tell her, and now we are having counselling. I certainly felt my affair was an "open door" affair. In fact, so much so I am seriously considering getting out even knowing I have noone else to go to. Its hard on the wife of course, but so would me staying and having another affair be.

If you had feelings for your wife at the start that would be different and I am sure what you must do is try to get them back, but for me, after holding OW in my arms and knowing what I felt then I had never ever felt for my wife even at the beginning, I have had to reconsider my whole life after my affair. (an EA only by the way)

Good luck.