It isn't so far fetched to settle for a chronic cheater.

The matriarch of the Kennedy family did just that. Rose Kennedy knew her husband was cheating, and look at the wealth, power, and infidelity in her children!

Personally, I like the Aesop fable of the rich city mouse and the poor country mouse. You have a choice, not one you would have wanted to make, but you need to be realistic.

Either you accept infidelity or you don't. If you don't, you kick him out. If he comes back, he needs to demonstrate he has changed. You do not have the choice of changing him. That's up to him.

Thank you all so much. I honestly respect all of your opinions and I'm honestly trying to work with them. I need for you to be harsh when nec. As you can see I really have a hard time turning my back. I guess this is why I find it so hard to believe that people can be so wicked. I know that I have enabled my H for years which is the addiction that I need get help for. Please Pray for me.

The key thing to face is you aren't trapped. You have a choice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by robbed:
<strong> I need for you to be harsh when nec. As you can see I really have a hard time turning my back. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dee Dee, I think you have been in a crazy mad house for so long that it's hard to see the reality of the situation. You have long turned your back on your marriage, yourself and your children in order to accommodate a profoundly destructive, unloving man.

He has long turned his back on you and the kids and has been freely living the life of a single man for years. He has had the added benefit of a family to keep on the sidelines while he went out and had some fun. He has been allowed - BY YOU - to destroy your marriage and family for years. It is a GOOD THING to turn your back on a destructive force. It is GOOD to stop the destruction.

You told your daughters to RUN from a cheating man. But what good is a principle when you don't have the courage of your convictions? That is the lesson your daughters see.

Dee Dee, I will pray for you and I also hope you are praying yourself. We will help you no matter what you decide to do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by robbed:
At the moment H is just here. I can tell he has a lot on his mind about how to try and fix this mess as he has in the past.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dee Dee,

Like Melody said, he's only stressing over this because you are. Otherwise he's happy with the situation as is. Why shouldn't he be, he gets his needs met by 2+ women whenever it suits him. He's only stressed because that's in jeopardy, and because of that he's now in damage control mode, he has no intentions of changing things permanently.

He KNOWS you Dee Dee, and he relys on your historical response to his adultery, which has allowed, and at times perhaps enabled it.

I'm not trying to demonize him, but he will only change when the pain of staying the same out weighs the pain of change.

And that will not occur as long as you choose to accept his unacceptable behavior by not doing anything different.

Jo

<small>[ December 28, 2003, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by robbed:
I need for you to be harsh when nec. As you can see I really have a hard time turning my back. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your husband turned his back on YOU, Dee Dee.

You going into Plan B is simply a response to him turning his back on you and his family.

They're his C-O-N-S-E-Q-U-E-N-C-E-S.

Thank you all once again. I am thinking. The girls are still out and WH has yet to find a place to go and a way to get his belongings there. In the meantime we're keeping our distance from each other.

Dee Dee, did you give him the Plan B letter? Is that why he is not trying to find another place?Did you discuss this or are y'all just sitting around giving each the silent treatment? You need to tell him your plans or he won't know them.

I always approach things, even very difficult hurtful things, with a list eventually. It helps me see the big picture and how I'm going to get there.

Here'e what I see may need to happen in the short term: [please remember Dee Dee, I'm an engineer so this is my method, feel free to adopt it]

1. Dee Dee sets a reasonable date that H needs to be out by and H agrees to it. (i.e. by end of w/e xx/xx/xx)

2. Dee Dee gets the MB folks here to help her tune her Plan B letter to be given to her H once he has left.

3. While H is still sharing residence, Dee Dee places herself in a modified Plan B, and when interaction with H occurs, she acts in a Plan A manner.

4. Dee Dee makes future plans post-H moving. (i.e., Plan B stuff ... doing things for herself, planning a future for herself and her girls, get finances in order, etc.)

I really know this is hard to imagine, but if you take a first step, the second step and beyond become easier, and gradually you start to feel in control of your life, you feel much better about yourself.

Lv,
Jo

I don't know if you want to follow my lead Dee Dee .... but I gave my H a loving ultimatum after 11+ mos in Plan A. He actively stayed in the affair with many promises that it was over.

After confirming the affair was still on, I told him I loved him, wanted the marriage but could no longer be in a triangle because it was too painful to endure any longer. I told him he had a choice, either he truly end it with OW, or he leave by xx/xx/xx.

He chose the latter, and on that date (a Saturday), I had the locksmith come to my home and change the locks as he was packing. He must have asked me three times "You're changing the locks???"

I did this based on our therapist's recommendation in a joint session because the OW harrassed me and was unstable. My H told the therapist he knew I was not serious and that he didn't believe me.

I still don't know how I did it, it was like I was watching myself go through the motions. Like I was in survival mode.

<small>[ December 28, 2003, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

NO Mel, I didn't give him the plan B letter yet. Remember I still have the Jamaica delimma to get through. The girls and I made it clear that we want him to leave. He would have left today had his sister allowed him to at least keep his clothing at her house. I think that's a good thing because it only puts more pressure on him to know that people are no longer in support of this madness.

Resilient I really like your idea. Is it really possible to work bith plan A and plan B at the same time? Workin both plans would surely make it easier on the finances. Can I ask are you in recovery?

Nope Dee Dee, I'm sorry to say that my marriage was in too bad a shape and the circumstances were too severe (2 OW, 2 OC, STDs) to survive the damage done.

I never thought I would be without my H, I loved him thoroughly, and cherished him. But he made too many big mistakes to make recovery possible.

At one time I was willing to explore reconciliation, but my then H was not open to wanting our marriage, so he divorced me for OW.

Jo

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by robbed:
Resilient I really like your idea. Is it really possible to work bith plan A and plan B at the same time? Workin both plans would surely make it easier on the finances. Can I ask are you in recovery?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dee Dee,

My list up above is in preparation for you H's eventual move from the family home. When I said Plan B him while he's there, it's meant while he is seeking another place to live, and Plan A [no Love Busters] him "IF" you are required to interact with him while he's looking.

Jo

<small>[ December 28, 2003, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

My therapist recommended a Plan B without separation, and I called Harley on his radio show to discuss it. He said it basically sounded like withdrawal. It really wasn't Plan B.

Plan B is like divorce. Divorced people generally don't share a home.

That book, The Solo Partner, which I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, is essentially withdrawal. You don't meet his needs, and you don't expect him to meet yours. You do as little as possible together. The intent is to stop pursuing to give the other person a chance to decide if they want to stay in the M or not.

<small>[ December 28, 2003, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

BH,

Is that sort of like a pretend Plan B? I mean, if the point is withdrawal, how can that happen if one is living together? It just defeats the whole purpose and basically gives the WS a new lease on life [and license to really do what he wants without interference!].

If he can still live at home AND carry on with other women, without any interference from the BS, then he just has it made. What better way to live? All the comforts of home, no whining from the BS [she is in Plan B, rememember?] and several babes on the side. And since the BS is in pseudo Plan B mode and isn't talking to him, he doesn't get any flak either. Sounds like the IDEAL plan for a wandering WS but not a very good deal for a BS who is trying to get their life back and avoid having their nose rubbed in the affair every day.

I think the idea of a Plan B while living together is more for folks who don't really want to do Plan B at all, but want to just pretend like they are doing it.

Isn't it better to just be honest and say you don't want to do Plan B at all and just call it what it really is? What it really is is living together while the BS gives the WS the silent treatment and pretends that it will accomplish anything when it won't. It just enables the WS to inflict some more damage....with the permission of the BS.

I very much agree with you Melody. Ideally, Plan B is done during physical separation. Dee Dee is in a very tough situation in that her husband won't or can't leave yet. All I can think to tell her is to "detach" from him, aka do not meet any of his needs, but don't love bust either.

Until he leaves, she cannot implement a real Plan B, IMVHO. And I think we all know how dang hard it is to detach emotionally when we live with a person who is emotionally hurting us in an inordinate way. The one who we were suppose to be able to trust and love our entire lives, betraying us right under our nose 24/7.

If Dee Dee can get him to move out, really move out, I believe she can start to see some light of day.

<small>[ December 28, 2003, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Agree 100%, Jo. Hopefully, she can get him to move out, but I am not sure she has seriously attempted that yet.

Yeap, those were my thoughts as well, Dana. She waffles. It's as if she wants someone to tell her precisely what to do, maybe because it hurts so much. I've been there, and it is pretty horrible.

But once you do make up your mind, it's like you're on auto-pilot, it was for me. I really hope she gets there. I'm praying.

Jo

Resilient and MelodyLane -- I should have added that Plan B without separation didn't work very well for me. The therapist told me to "cordially ignore" him and build my own life. This was before I knew there was an affair going on.

At the time, I was having periodic angry outbursts whenever he brought up Sophia. When the affair came out, it was because I followed Harley's advice from his radio show and called Sophia's husband. He was quite taken aback to learn things I knew, he confronted his wife, and two weeks later got out of her that they had been having an affair.

The key benefit of The Solo Partner is "Disengagement starves conflict." I was getting upset and needed to stop.

H is home trying to reconcile. He says the only contact with Sophia was a phone call from her in March.

Our situations are different. I wouldn't recommended Plan B without separation for robbed but was just answering her question.

<small>[ December 29, 2003, 04:13 AM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

Wow!!!! I have to say you people are really on point. You're all right and I thank you all for being so helpful and most of all understanding. Please don't bail out on me.
I did tell my H that I wanted him out and he told me yesterday that he realized that he can't make amends for what he has done. I like Resilients list with the time limit in it. In the past I've placed his clothing on the porch and H would pack the rest of his things and leave without hesitation. This is the 1st time he's reacted this way. His reasons for not leaving is that he does not have transportation and of course his sisters NO. Although I may be wrong, I honestly don't think he's going to leave. Maybe he's going to make arrangements today while at work today with one of the OW who knows. In the mean time I'm collecting all of my spending money for Jamaica from all of his gigs between now and Saturday night(we leave on Sunday.)
Dealing with this whole situation is extremely hard and worse then dealing with the death of my mother. I want so bad to do what's necessary and then I feel stupid because there is a part of me dreaming of H actually changing now and I know he's not. This is where I made my mistakes in the past. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
I normally take H to and from train station daily so he could get to his normal job. Today I made it clear that I was not taking him. He had to walk a good 2 miles in the cold. I couldn't believe the time it took him to get dressed and out the door this am. I wondered if he even brushed his teeth. That felt great.