I wanted to ask a question about male-female friendships. Do you think it is "safe" for males and females to develop friendships at work apart from involving their spouses? I mean things like going out to dinner even in groups without inviting your spouse? Also attending social events together in groups after work? I guess the question would be: is it healthier to have some boundaries to make sure your spouse is involved to counter temptations of infidelity and to promote good marriages?<P>Two years ago my H was carpooling with a woman because he and I were sharing a car at the time and he worked 40 minutes from home. After we moved this woman began asking him to take her places (he said she can't see to drive at night) and I told him I thought it was totally inappropriate. She then called our home a few times and I asked him to ask her not to because when I saw her at job-related outings she showed no signs of being interested in getting to know me, and I attempted conversations with her. This made me feel uncomfortable and that she was solely interested in my husband. I found out later that he was taking her places along with her best friend. Anyway, now he and I are separated (I asked him to leave when on three occassions I found it was lying about his whereabouts) and he is still good friends with this woman and her best friend, who both work with him. In fact, I recently found out that he is now living with her best friend. Now this may sound strange, but I truly doubt that he is sexually involved with either woman but he I know he is emotionally involved. This has practically driven me nuts because I can't believe my H would choose the friendships of these women over our marriage and three children. Yet he has constantly defended them and told me they have become like family to him. My questions to him was how can you adopt new family members without them having an interest in your real family? Things are so bad since I accidentally found out about his moving in with this woman, that now he has voice mail only, screens his cals and he has not called his children in weeks. He has not had a close relationship with our children either since he began running around with these his new work family. When I ask my children if they want to call him they ask why. They are 16, 13, and 12. I welcome any comments. Sometimes I wonder if I overreacted to these friendships. I know that not all male-female friendships lead to adultery but if we don't have some boundaries isn't it more tempting? Or do most of you agree with my husband that it's perfectly normal to have friends who are closer than family and spouses don't have to know all of your friends? Please help me. I keep going over and over this in my mind.

This is only my take on this.<P>I have always gotten along better with women than men. Not usually in any kind of romantic way, I was just able to talk to them more easily.<P>My wife is/was extremely jealous when I would even say "thank you" to a woman at a checkout. So I became very aware of how I reacted around women.<P>I have had women friends at various jobs and never thought much of it, but I know it bothers my wife. Personally I don't see anything wrong with friendships between the sexes but I would be very hesitant to do anything like just the two of us going to lunch or anything like that. I don't see a problem with doing group outings or company functions, but when it's one on one, I'd have to draw the line.<P>Of course my wife is the one in the affair so she must not have a problem with that anymore! <BR>

Dear stillmarried wow are situatons are quite similiar. I have been married almost 12 yrs (H&I together 16yrs.)3 kids ages 17,11,7 he became friends with a woman that he works with she to is married. We started having problems he wasn't coming home right after work as he usually did and we argued alot. I became very suspicious of him he was very secretive when he was on the computer and things like that. My WH has never cheated on me and has always been a good husband and father.We had a huge fight one night and I ask him to leave. He left and stayed in a motel for 2wks. I was devastated then he moved into an efficiency apartment. He got a cell phone and I was able to intercept his bill the very first call was to her. Since then there have been as many as 50 calls per month to her cell phone, her home her 800 extension at work. I was livid. One day while out with his friends our son saw him out with her and her baby. My H had lied to me and our D that day about going fishing and then when son saw him out and confronted him he said they were just friends and that they ran into each other. He lied to me and our kids about the entire situation even who she was. I have tried to contact her was successful once at work and she acted like she had no idea what I was talking about and once at her home and she was a royal b**** about it I have even spoken to her H once and apparently she has convinced him that I am crazy. My H and I are still separated he sees the kids as much as possible and we still do things together occassionally as a family. He doesn't know what he wants he says that they are nothing more than friends but it's very hard for me to believe that you would call a friend especially one of the opposite sex that much and the other persons spouse would be fine with it. I want my marriage to work more than anything but I cannot do it alone. He needs to make a decision and he has been waffling the entire time. He still helps support us financially sometimes emotionally but I feel as though he may never come home. We had a very long discussion today and he admitted that he has a alot of fears about our marriage. We didn't have the perfect marriage to begin with we had both made mistakes no infidelity just kinda lost the us somewhere along the way. Sorry this is so long I just wanted to let you know I know how you feel and yes I do agree that opposite sex friendships can be very dangerous to a marriage. There is alot of temptation and if you can sense something is not right well you know you're H better than anyone. In my case I don't think there has been a PA but definitely an EA although my H would never admit to it. Hang in there. There is alot of good information here and alot of support. God bless.<BR>cybil

stillmarried,<P>Any realtionship with a person of the opposite sex that makes a spouse uncomfortable is wrong. I have a friend who is male. I ask my H each time I see him if it is ok. He has the option of saying no. I also let him know exactly where I will be. He is welcome at any of these meetings. That is how your H should behave. I would love it if my H would come have lunch with my friend and I. I woudn't want to exclude him from anything.<BR>As a spouse we should not have secret friends or secret outings with friends. This is dishonest and destructive to a marriage. Your H's frinds do not have his best interests in mind.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stillmarried:<BR><B>Now this may sound strange, but I truly doubt that he is sexually involved with either woman but he I know he is emotionally involved. This has practically driven me nuts because I can't believe my H would choose the friendships of these women over our marriage and three children.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That sounds really odd to me that he is not sexually involved with one of these women, married men do not just leave thier families for mere friendships. That makes no sense because one can have friends and families. Why do you think he is not sexually involved?<P>As far as making friends at work, I have always had male friends at work. I work in a largely male oriented business so there aren't alot of females at my level. One of my best buddies and I go to lunch often and talk every day. HOWEVER, you can bet your butt that I went out of my way to get to meet his wife in order to subtly reassure her that I am not out to get her husband! In fact, I was just at her baby shower this afternoon. I ALWAYS make it a point to get to know a man's wife if I am his friend at work because I do not want her to worry about me and I can't stand for someone to think I am a person of low character who would mess with a woman's husband. I also go to sporting events, cocktail parties, dinners with co-workers and customers.

NO, I do not think that it is safe to develop opposite sex friendships that exclude your spouse. In fact, ever since my H's affair, my H & I have agreed to NOT become too close to any people of the opposite sex. One of the reasons for my H's affair was because he became friends with a woman whom I had no idea existed!<P>My H & I are friends with a few couples, but if we do anything with them, it is as a couple, not separately.<P>We are avoiding anything that may impose a risk to our marriage. So, opposite sex friendships that exclude spouses is a No-No in our relationship.

I have a whole new understanding of the necessity of boundaries after my H's A with a single coworker. He craves attention at work and she sure gave it to him. Stroked more than just his ego! In counseling we are trying to set some boundaries about what work friendships involve. Because his A started with them just being friends and being around each other alot at work and went from there. Just a few wks ago a single coworker put her hand on H's thigh when she was talking with him at a BBQ. I had a fit about it at our next counseling session- I told him ," Would you let a male coworker put his hand on your thigh?"<BR>NO! So dont let anyone do it.He claimed he didnt think she was 'coming on to him' but I was sitting right there and I recognize flirting when I see it. He needs to acknowledge that things like that are what starts them down the slippery slope.lifeismessy

All I can say on this topic is that an opposite sex friendship that my H started is what caused my life to be turned upsidedown.<P>It started with a woman that he is in the military with. They have the same job, so right off the bat they had somehting in common.<BR>It is hard for my H to make friends, so when he met her and liked her so much it made me feel ok.. Then.. they exchanged phone numbers without even asking me how I felt about it. They would talk for very long times even with me sitting right there next to him. It hurt. They would tell each other jokes, and have little inside things that I didnt know what they were talking about. Also, they would talk about work things and I am way lost at my H job because I dont even know what he does at work. <BR>I asked him to stop talking to her because it was making me feel bad, and he got so angry and told me to stop picking his friends.<P>So then they started emailing each other. The whole time they are both telling me that I have nothing to worry about. She even told me that she wanted to meet me one day and that she thinks we could all be friends!!!<P>Turns out... the friendship turned sexual, and the rest is history from there. <P>I can say that my H will never have another opposite sex relationship EVER again. Not unless I am a part of it.<P>Just my 2 cents...<P>~Heather

Thank you all for your replies. I went back and read again some of Dr. Harley's comments on affairs; it was helpful to be reminded that many affairs begin as co-worker friendships. I am very sad today because I did not have the knowledge to know what to do about us meeting each other's needs to avoid all of this. I believe now it may be too late for us. My husband is very bitter toward me, still resents me for demanding that he leave. I have asked and asked him to forgive me and he says he does but he will never live with me again.<P>I am especially saddened for my three kids. They could really use their Dad right now, starting in a new school. He was a pretty good father until all this happened. Now they talk to him about once a month because we are in a different state. I am going to try another stab at the thoughtfulness that Dr. Harley suggests. I think my husband's primary love need is affirmation and it's the hardest for me to give. I must make an effort I guess . . . otherwise it looks like a divorce for us soon.