Hi all, <P>H just told me OW's father was diagnosed with bone cancer which already affected pelvis bones and few discs of lower spine. He was hospitalised last Wednesday, and put on X-ray therapy immediately after his general practicioner saw CT results. <P>A short reminder for those who are not familiar with my story: OW was diagnosed stage 3 ovarian cancer last December and had radical surgery (womb, both ovaries, tubes, appendics, part of omentum and lymphatic nodes from abdomen were affected and had to be removed.) She has passed thru 6 rounds of Taxol chemos, last second check operation in June showed no affected tissue, tumor markers from blood are normal for now. Seems she survived first round. She recently turned back on her job, and for now, looks fine (but still wears wig). <P>H turned back home in Feb, after 7 months separation (lived at BIL's but only 1/2 mile from OW appartment.) EA started Dec 99, turned to PA spring 00, and according to H, lasted short, ended some time before her surgery. Prior to separation we had two months of absolute hell, waffeling, rewriting history, fighting - you name it, then his suicide attempt, a month in mental hospital, then separation... <P>Nov 00 she was transfered to another job position only because of A, it was her 3rd in the same company and her boss was really pissed. Unbelievably, the very same one who transfered her decided to turn her back after she got ill, allegidly they didn't wan to cause her additional problems (yea, right, new job was 1 mile from her app., this one is 20 miles away!)<P>Now, what I have to fight with: H refuses to cut EA with her, and I can't control their communication. They work together, he is her superior (and only hers), she spends large part of the day in his office, writes notes in his business log, sends e-mails from his account... After working hours, they go out from office together, each and every day, and she takes the same tram as his and travels around the town only to go his way (it's much faster and shorter to take another one which really goes her direction). <P>He doesn't allow me to visit him in his office nor to wait him in front of his building. When I ask why, he asks me to skip the question and refuses to answer. <P>He also refuses to cut going home together, having lunch breaks together and cell communication with her, says what the h**l I want, he is at home on time, he wants to be at home and feels good here, and it is me who puts her between us. "She is ill and I'm not going to turn my back on her!". <P>Yes, I can tell he acts pretty normlly at home, not very affectionate, but seems like he is much more like of what he used to be than some few months ago, and in many cases we restored the communication patterns we used to have. He plans some investments in apartment, does repairments, and shows in many little things he intends to stay at home. <P>However, he keeps close communication with her, communicates even with her family (F,M,S), has been at her parent's place many times during our separation, even later. Has been all around in hospitals with her, even when he returned home he spent some time with her during chemos and didn't want to tell me. When I told him I knew, he denied, then told yes only once, but don't remember when and which therapy it was (no kidding - and he wrote an e-mail to his friend saying "yesterday I spent some time with ---- in hospital, she was receiving her 4th therapy"). <P>I don't have any more strenght to fight with another cancer in my life, she is already playing that "You can't leave me now when I'm ill" game, and I expect her to play it even harder now. H is typical conflict avoider, and I know he has huge moral problem now, sorta humanity test. But it shouldn't be my problem. I bared with him when he cried to me for her, now he came to me to tell me about her F's illness. I feel like he needs me only when he feels scr***d up. I've been plan Aing a long time, 15 months at least, I just had it enough. I want my life, bad or good, but I need peace for me. I haven't made up my mind re/ our marriage yet, but I find myself want it less and less. <P>I can barely keep control and make myself survive him working with her and having contact with her daily, I can't even imagine him going with her visit her father, and I'm sure he's going to give her every support in this matter - and she is going to ask , big time, you can bet. <P>What should I do? I feel like running away, as fast as I can. Unfortunately, for many reasons (mainly financial), that's not easily feasible. And yes, I can still say i love him, although I ask mayself more and more often what does it mean to me. <P>Adrian

Wow, Adrian, I remember your unique situation.<P>With her illness, it's pretty clear that whatever you do to upset the status quo will be slung back at you as inhumane. And you're probably right-on that she'll lean on him to cope with her father's illness.<P>What to do? I honestly don't know. Please remind us if you have any children involved? Have you ever consulted Steve or Jennifer?<P>WAT

Hi Adrian,<P>This is going to sound weird to you, I can bet. But I think you should start participating in the OW's support. Now before you jump the gun ..... and get nutso on me, please hear me out.<P>I too had stage 3 cervical cancer, 8 mos of Rads and topical chemo. So I know something about this stuff.<P>I know this sounds radical, but if you start to help your H with helping OW then you accomplish a few things. You show you are not inhumane, which we already know you're not. You're partnering with your H in his cause (Plan A), you'll also be showing OW that you know your H loves YOU and you trust him and believe in him. <P>You could start out by doing small things, just little support type stuff, like buying a book on the type of cancer the OW's father has. Send the book w/your H next time he see's OW and in the book place a note telling her that her father is in your prayers.<P>What I believe this type of action from you will do, is it will start OW thinking that you and H are a MARRIED COUPLE and band TOGETHER. That to your H, OW is a "worthy cause" more than she is an OW .. you know, more than she is an A partner.<P>You may think this sounds whacko ... but I believe it will tug at your H's heart. It's will show him you are bigger than this whole A thing and can be stronger than he ever imagined. <P>What is your alternative, Adrian? Plan B???<P>Love,<BR>Jo<BR>

WAT, <P>thanks for responding. I am pretty much drained. I have no more energy, nor good will, sometimes I feel too tired even to ask a question, not to mention explain or talk. I just let go. It's OK only if I don't ask, if I'm willing to accept status quo. But I can't. <P>H says it takes time for us to repair damage, and reasures me he didn't come back only to leave again. But gives me nothing - no remorse, no will to cut contact with her, no honesty. <P>IMHO, I think he is buying time, as typical conflict avoider - something is going to happen: either is Mother Nature going to solve his problem, or am I going to freak out and file. Or maybe she will give him up, which is highly unlikely now. In any case, it will not be him to cut the node. <P>From time to time, I still find out things he hides from me, like her being with him on informal gathering she was not supposed to be at. If I ask about it, I get funny replies: "Is she going with you? No, don't be silly. Why should I invite her?" Then, two days later: "She was there, I know, why did you tell me she was not going with you? She wasn't. XX (name of the friend who organised gathering)invited her, but I didn't take her with me. She came alone." End of conversation. And THAT he considers HONESTY. <P>To answer your question - yes, I have one daughter, 13 y.o.<P>Adrian<BR> <P><BR>

hi Adrian - first, Jo's response is certainly unique, but you have a unique situation; thus it warrants consideration. Please consider consulting with Steve.<P>I have a 13yo son, so we're similar there and he's my main concern, as I am sure your daughter's is your's. If not for my son and deceased son, I may have given up years ago. So, please don't give up until you've exhausted your energy.<P>I, unfortunately, know too much about cancer, too. It takes a lot of knowledge and effort to "manage" a family in this situation, and the more heads, the better. Let's be blunt - OW's Dad is not long for this world, but OW may be here a long time. Playing off Jo's suggestion, if you're not a "participant", you need to be a cold hearted individual, looking out for your's and your daughter's wellbeing. We can't all save the world. Yep, it'll PO your H, but no more than I may PO my W when she has to face the cold reality of her decisions. In this way, you're no different than most of the rest of us.<P>WAT

Hi again Adrian,<P>I hope I didn't offend you with my idea, Hon. I just couldn't think of any other way to help you. Your situation is a very difficult one. And it's unfair of your H to put you in such a situation.<P>Simply put, it sux that you are placed in a position where you are the bad guy because you're asking your H to end an A with a woman who has or had cancer. She is NOT his spouse, you are.<P>I was just thinking that if you could get your H's attention by showing him you AND HE can help OW, then perhaps it would somehow defuse their twosome of "(OW) I'm sick and need you / (H) I need someone to need me" fantasy.<P>IMHO, that is what is bonding them to one another, and it's, of course, not a healthy relationship. It's based in guilt. <P>I was just trying to help, Adrian. I'm sorry if I didn't.<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited September 10, 2001).]

Jo, <P>I guess you thought me not responding means I'm offended. <BR>No, I just had problems with server connection on work, so was unable to post. I will return a bit later, now have to be short. <P>I presented dsme idea some ime ago to my H and he refused, reluctantly. Unfortunately, still stays at the same position. He wants me nothing to do with OW, that's his "playground". <P>Love, <BR>Adrian

Adrian, if your H turned around today, would you want to work on the marriage? Would he be able to get her out of the work related contact? If the OW died of her disease while having your H's support, would you be able to welcome him back, knowing that she had to die for this to happen?<P>It's pretty obvious that your H can't see your position, but this is no different than any other WS fog.<P>I hope you get some more input, but I'm close to suggesting you ask him to leave until he figures where his allegiance is. Who knows, if she's cured, Dad either dies or lives a long time, there may be another "crisis" he has to assist her with and it all continues.<P>WAT

Wow -- you sure have your hands (arms) full Adrian.<P>Maybe you need to stop stressing about THEIR situation and worry about YOU.<P>Maybe very nicely Plan B him. Say -- "gosh its really important for you to be with her in this time of need. However, I have no such obligation to her or you, and I need to remove myself from this situation."<P>Obviously his return home was not what it should have been. There is no way he should have moved back home while still in contact (daily even!) with OW.<P>Why did you let him come back?

Adrian:<P>Somewhat just "lurking" here & wanted to tell you that I don't know what I would do in your situation.<P>If OW didn't have cancer what would your H be doing ? I'm sure you've asked him this question.<P>I think it's much easier to sh** on "nice" people. We take the "stink" out of it.<BR>

Thanks to all of you for support. <P>I couldn't post nor read due to server maintenance in company, which caused system crash. <P>Well, I don't know what to say. He is home, comes on time every day, participates in family activities, helps in house works ... some days are really good and I feel closer to him, then it looks he is giving himself in, but there are days when he is very distant, withdrawn and very jumpy. I was ready for that, but whenever we touch anything related to her he gets mad. Now I'm positive that his moods depend also on her presence on the job. If she's not there, or if he has day off, it's different, better. <P>Few days ago we had talk, which ended with him telling me: "This is what I'm gonna say and I'm not going to talk much more: I came home on my own decision and will. I am here, and trying to be a family member, not a piece of furniture. From my point of view, this is enough. I know it took you a great deal of effort to take me back, but it also required from me a number of decisions to be made, please [censored] that. She never asked me why I decided to come back home. She just accepted it the way it is." <P>I try not to sweat "small things", some days I manage not to think of them working together, but it depends a lot of how much I get from him in terms of affection, normal behaviour etc. <P>However, when I discover her number at his cell phone bill, listed few days in a row, short 30 sec. calls always around 9-10 pm (means FROM HOME) I feel like LBing all over the place. Yet, I don't. <P>Yes, it sucks big time. Too good to leave, too bad to stay, a classical case.<P>Of course I would feel very bad if she dies and I knew it took such a horrible thing to make him turn his heart home. Honestly I can't tell that's what I would accept. Some days I feel like leaving instantly, the sooner, the better, and some days I feel there is a lot of that we still can give to each other. At least, he is more willing to talk then he used to be some six mos ago. I loose a portion of my good will each time a setback hits me (and it's always a contact with OW matter), I just don't know how long will I be able or willing to fight for my marriage. I already ask myself why, what's the point. <P>You are all in my thoughts and prayers. <P>Love,<BR>Adrian <BR>