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That's what my husband of 46 years told me three weeks ago. He went on to say, "When I think of our lives I only see grey and lots of struggle." He wasn't joking.

Even the birth of our first child wasn't amazing to him. Instead, the only thing he could remember about that was he was mad at me for not having the baby faster.

When he saw how upset I was he backtracked and said it wasn't me he was mad at, but the circumstances. The circumstances being a long labor, baby in distress, so instead of that birthing room, it was a cold delivery room and forceps. This grey memory is still with him 36 years after our son's birth.

After all of this, he tells me he loves me and he's happy in our marriage.

The thing is, I never knew he was so unhappy. Our marriage has had its up and down, but for me, it's mostly been good.

Except for this past two years which has been one sad discovery about my husband after another. I stumbled across a dirty little secret that he never wanted me to know. A lie of omission and lots of misdirects. If I had known the truth back when I was 19 and the totality of it, I most likely would never have married him.

There have been lots of other discoveries since then, leading up to this latest one. It seems one unearthed truth leads to another.

I have to be honest, I didn't take any of these discoveries well and have been all over the place emotionally.

Earlier this year I found Dr. Harley and started mentioning to my husband. He was receptive and agreed to read the first book (HNHN) and work on Dr. Harley's ideas. But it's hit or miss. Like the book. He still hasn't finished it and isn't ready to move on to the other two I have, so he doesn't know there are more concepts we need to learn.

I don't want to make him sound like an oaf because he is trying. But again, it's on and off. We have lots of uninterrupted time together for talking. At least 20+ hours a week (and this isn't new for us, we've been carving time out for "us" for years).

We do things together, some work-related, some fun. Some of those, like shooting on our home range are things he has to set up. And he hasn't been doing that a lot. The other stuff, like date nights/days are set up by me. While he always agrees with those, he's not always happy with them. And sex, well, we try to do that often.

He's been a little more affectionate (this after saying "I love you" is trite and too phony and wasn't him) and he's even starting to talk about me and ask me questions about my day/life/work.

While he's working on my ENs, he tells me I meet all of his (but somehow I don't think that's completely true).

I feel my husband is like the little boy who says "you're not the boss of me." While he agrees we need to work on things, he also digs in his heels at the idea of work, especially if it's for me (my perception, I know). Maybe that's even where the hurtful remarks come from.

I don't want to be the nagging wife. I don't want to have to ask him to hug me or ask me how my day was. Or police him over whether he's read any more of Dr. Harley's book or set up our together time to go to the range. But it seems he doesn't take any action unless I have a meltdown.

I need him to take the lead and most especially, to be honest with me.

That's my question for all of you. How? How do I make him understand? My love bank running low on funds.

Sorry for this being so long, but thanks for listening.


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Originally Posted by pretzeled
I don't want to make him sound like an oaf because he is trying. But again, it's on and off. We have lots of uninterrupted time together for talking. At least 20+ hours a week (and this isn't new for us, we've been carving time out for "us" for years).

We do things together, some work-related, some fun. Some of those, like shooting on our home range are things he has to set up. And he hasn't been doing that a lot. The other stuff, like date nights/days are set up by me. While he always agrees with those, he's not always happy with them. And sex, well, we try to do that often.

Hello pretzeled! Welcome to Marriage Builders. i think the key is the quality of your UA time. You said you do things together, some work related and some fun. Can you describe your date activities for last week? What did you do, how much time was spent on your dates each day?

It is this area that trips up most couples in your position because typically they will continue doing what they are already doing, but just "count" the time as UA time and gloss over this critical step. As a result, they never see any change because they really haven't changed anything at all.

Can you describe to me your week of UA time?


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This rewriting of history sounds like a person who is in an affair. What was the dirty secret you discovered?


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Hi, pretzled, welcome to Marriage Builders.

I think it would be very important to let your husband know that you need your emotional needs met and that you expect your marriage to be an exchange where you take care of each other's needs, and that you need him to learn how to meet yours.

If your husband is reluctant about reading books he can get the Marriage Builders app and start listening to Dr. Harley's free radio show. This is specifically designed to reach men who might not like to read! The two of you could even go on the show together to get some help directly from Dr. Harley; I highly recommend it.

You could also print out just the Basic Concepts section on this website and see if he is willing to read it and give it a try. I would focus on the parts about time for undivided attention for each other, as Melody Lane said - the two of you need to be together when you are the happiest, which will make Love Bank deposits for both of you.

Also, what was the secret you uncovered? Do you believe your husband is still keeping secrets from you?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by markos
Also, what was the secret you uncovered? Do you believe your husband is still keeping secrets from you?

This^^^ Do you have spyware in his devices?


FWW/BW (me)
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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Can you describe to me your week of UA time?


Thank Melody, I understand. For this past week, we spend about 23 hours in UA time. Most of this was our morning coffees and end of the day times.

Hubby also went with the g-kids & son and me to the Nutcracker last Sunday. I know, that's family time, not us time, but it's significant because it was the first time in the six years the g-kids and I have been going that he (or our son) wanted to join.

After we dropped the kids off, we went out by ourselves to a nice quiet dinner at a favorite place.

No recreational time together and that's probably not good and something we need to work on.

Edited to add: we generally try to do one date-night a week, usually alternating for between going out or having in at home date night.

Last edited by pretzeled; 12/16/17 02:28 PM.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
This rewriting of history sounds like a person who is in an affair. What was the dirty secret you discovered?


No, that isn't a problem.

His secret was a love affair pre-me that turned out badly. That wasn't a problem for me. Even when I found out his lover was a prostitute girlfriend experience. Icky, yes, but a problem, no.

Even not telling me about it before we married and leading me to believe something else wasn't the biggest problem.

But sitting in front of me 46 years later and almost in tears over his heartbreak and then twisting himself into a pretzel trying to convince me that the prostitute who turned tricks behind his back and gave him VD was a good person and whatever she did wasn't really her fault... that was (is still) the problem. He should have put that away a long, long time ago.Certainly, before he met me.

And the biggest problem of all. For him, that six-month affair is etched in his mind his words was "intense, emotional and it was good until it wasn't." Our life, on the other hand, our entire life together has been "grey and full of struggle."

It kind of left me with a big hole in my heart... and he doesn't understand why.

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Originally Posted by pretzeled
...we generally try to do one date-night a week, usually alternating for between going out or having in at home date night.
What do you mean by an "at home date night"? Isn't that just another name for staying in?


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Originally Posted by markos
I think it would be very important to let your husband know that you need your emotional needs met and that you expect your marriage to be an exchange where you take care of each other's needs, and that you need him to learn how to meet yours.


He knows that and we've been through both our ENs.

Originally Posted by markos
If your husband is reluctant about reading books he can get the Marriage Builders app and start listening to Dr. Harley's free radio show. This is specifically designed to reach men who might not like to read! The two of you could even go on the show together to get some help directly from Dr. Harley; I highly recommend it.


I like this idea, a lot.

Originally Posted by markos
You could also print out just the Basic Concepts section on this website and see if he is willing to read it and give it a try. I would focus on the parts about time for undivided attention for each other, as Melody Lane said - the two of you need to be together when you are the happiest, which will make Love Bank deposits for both of you.


Done that, it was part of getting him interested in what Dr. Harley had to say. He, BTW, thinks Dr. Harley is spot on. The problem the doing.

Originally Posted by markos
Also, what was the secret you uncovered? Do you believe your husband is still keeping secrets from you?


I answer the secret above. And I do think he keeps secrets from me, or at least his feelings.


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Originally Posted by pretzeled
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Can you describe to me your week of UA time?


Thank Melody, I understand. For this past week, we spend about 23 hours in UA time. Most of this was our morning coffees and end of the day times.

This is what I suspected. If you will work on fine tuning your UA time and making it the most effective, you will see a dramatic change. You won't ever be able to get away with cutting corners on this step. Believe me, I have tried and failed!

This is most definitely not a check the box exercise.

Deduct any time that is a) spent in your home [other than SF time], b) any time that is spent around children and c) any block of time that is less than 2 hours. None of these conditions are UA time that make a difference. UA time spent at home is worthless*; not even Dr Harley and Joyce count time spent at home for this reason. It is too easy to get distracted at home.

I want to emphasize that just being home together is NOT UA time. UA time is a romantic DATE. Just being together in the house is not a romantic date.

*I will qualify this comment to say that I have known exactly TWO couples over the years who made UA time at home effective, a virtual rarity. However, they were very much in love and were experts in meeting the other's EN's. VERY RARE.


Quote
Hubby also went with the g-kids & son and me to the Nutcracker last Sunday. I know, that's family time, not us time, but it's significant because it was the first time in the six years the g-kids and I have been going that he (or our son) wanted to join.

So deduct this time. This is not UA time, but family time.

Quote
After we dropped the kids off, we went out by ourselves to a nice quiet dinner at a favorite place.

This would count for sure!

Quote
No recreational time together and that's probably not good and something we need to work on.

In order to be effective, a date should focus on meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. However, going out on dates to dinner does qualify for RC.

Quote
Edited to add: we generally try to do one date-night a week, usually alternating for between going out or having in at home date night.

One date every other week won't cut it. I can't imagine going out on so few dates. I would be starved for my husband!

Harley suggests FOUR - FOUR HOUR dates a week. Use the UA planner and sit down on Sunday afternoon and plan out your dates for the week. Time that is scheduled is less likely to be ignored. Do you have the five Steps to Romantic Love workbook? In the meantime you can print this worksheet http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forms/FiveSteps_Time_for_Undivided_Attention_Worksheet.pdf


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by markos
Also, what was the secret you uncovered? Do you believe your husband is still keeping secrets from you?

This^^^ Do you have spyware in his devices?


Not that kind of problem. The secrets he keeps are his emotions.


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Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"One problem with spending your time for undivided attention in the house is that at least one of your children will interrupt your privacy. But even if you were to send all of your children out of your hours to child care, the environment of your home is likely to cause you to be less romantic. It's a place where you have been busy caring for children. Going almost anywhere else to be alone, giving each other your undivided attention when you are there, would tend to create more of an opportunity to meet each other's intimate emotional needs."

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"Our program for recovery only works when it's followed. The 15 hours of undivided attention we recommend is an essential part of the program because it provides the opportunity to meet emotional needs that cannot be met any other way. There are lots of excuses for failing to follow that aspect of our program, but in the end, failure to follow it results in a failed recovery."


Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
"My program of marriage recovery is exactly the same as most weight loss programs. Whenever it's followed, the marriage recovers. I know of no other program of marital recovery that can make that claim. In fact, if you follow the advice of most marriage recovery programs today, your marriage will not recover. That's why a 1995 Consumer's Report survey found marriage counseling to be the least effective form of psychotherapy. Only 16% found the experience to be helpful.

For those who complete my program of marital recovery, 100% find the experience to be more than helpful -- it solves their marital problems. But just like in dieting, the successful outcome depends entirely on motivation. Only those who are not motivated enough to complete the program fail."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by pretzeled
...we generally try to do one date-night a week, usually alternating for between going out or having in at home date night.
What do you mean by an "at home date night"? Isn't that just another name for staying in?


Quiet is nice. And we are empty nesters so there are no kids to be tended to. We also live out in the boonies so going into town is a 75-mile round trip.

An at-home date is usually dinner, maybe or movie or just cuddling in bed and listening to music.


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Originally Posted by pretzeled
[
An at-home date is usually dinner, maybe or movie or just cuddling in bed and listening to music.

I can just tell you that the proof is in the pudding. If your "UA time" was effective your husband wouldn't be saying: "When I think of our lives I only see grey and lots of struggle." He wasn't joking. "

Quote
An at-home date is usually dinner, maybe or movie or just cuddling in bed and listening to music.

A movie is not UA time. Can you cuddle in bed and listen to music for four hours with your attention completely undivided and focused on each other? I doubt it.

I will just emphasize that your UA time is not working for you and would strongly suggest you try something different such as FOUR - FOUR hour dates. The fact that you live 35 miles from town is a good thing, not a bad thing, because you can meet each others needs in the drive.

Driving can be GREAT UA time. In fact, my H and I actually plan our dates this way sometimes to make sure we have alot of time together.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Harley suggests FOUR - FOUR HOUR dates a week. Use the UA planner and sit down on Sunday afternoon and plan out your dates for the week. Time that is scheduled is less likely to be ignored. Do you have the five Steps to Romantic Love workbook? In the meantime you can print this worksheet http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forms/FiveSteps_Time_for_Undivided_Attention_Worksheet.pdf


I do see what you're saying and it makes sense. We'll just have to get creative to figure out how we can make that happen.

I don't have the book you mentioned, but I'll go look for it right now.

Thanks


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Just an update... we've both been sick the last few days so moving a snail's pace. But, the workbook came in a couple days ago. It looks good and I think it will be helpful for both of us. As soon as I feel better I'll figure out the radio archives and how to start listening to those. And we're trying to get creative on our dates.

Thanks all for your help.


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