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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
He is a master manipulator and a person like me does not stand a chance.

Nope, wrong. You will win because you can stay the course. A manipulating liar will only win in the short term. Eventually they all run out of string.


Originally Posted by chalkncheese
Every other time he has seen the kids (I think there have actually only been three times since I moved country last year) he has preferred to take me to court and/or go to a police station to try to get me arrested rather than supply the travel itinerary 7 days in advance like he is supposed to. Because agreeing to schedule a visit once will mean, in his mind, that I am controlling him forever. His ego is very sensitive to what he percieves as me dictating things. His idea of negotiation is him dictating things.

So he is desperately insecure. Not your problem.

Originally Posted by chalkncheese
I expect that he will return to his home country in a week's time without having seen them at all.

Excellent news. Although you may feel that your children should see their father, it is far more important that they get steady, reliable parenting.


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Originally Posted by living_well
Originally Posted by chalkncheese
He is a master manipulator and a person like me does not stand a chance.

Nope, wrong. You will win because you can stay the course. A manipulating liar will only win in the short term. Eventually they all run out of string.


Originally Posted by chalkncheese
Every other time he has seen the kids (I think there have actually only been three times since I moved country last year) he has preferred to take me to court and/or go to a police station to try to get me arrested rather than supply the travel itinerary 7 days in advance like he is supposed to. Because agreeing to schedule a visit once will mean, in his mind, that I am controlling him forever. His ego is very sensitive to what he percieves as me dictating things. His idea of negotiation is him dictating things.

So he is desperately insecure. Not your problem.

Originally Posted by chalkncheese
I expect that he will return to his home country in a week's time without having seen them at all.

Excellent news. Although you may feel that your children should see their father, it is far more important that they get steady, reliable parenting.

Thank you Living Well!! Most of the time I think I will win in the end by forcing him to respect the rules that the rest of us live by, but I must say it is really disheartening to see that he still somehow keeps on getting everyone apart from me to run around after him all the time, including my and his lawyers.

Is the ego thing really a sign of insecurity?! I don't know. He is SO super confident.

I am definitely over the idea that the kids need to see their father! Or at least, I am over the idea that I should do anything to facilitate that if he's not prepared to behave properly. We have been doing great on our own for a year and a half now, and its not like they ever ask "when are we going to see Papa?". They just don't mention him at all. I asked my eldest a few weeks ago if he felt bad after a birthday party we went to at a theme park where i was the only single mum and the other two families had both parents. He just looked at me puzzled and said "why would i feel bad? It's not like I don't have a dad. He just lives somewhere else". That's when I realised my husband not being here affects me way more than it affects them, and I shouldn't spend too much time worrying about it!


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
. I think he would prefer not to see the children than to have to schedule a visit. I expect that he will return to his home country in a week's time without having seen them at all.

Winner, winner chicken dinner!

Nobody gets to take part in the revenge of Shroedinger's papa (love this) and we have to stick to only seeing people who care enough to make actual plans? Oh noes! Too bad, so sad.

I don't think it's just the variety of possibilities that make him Shroedinger's cat, but also the fact that he may be a giant man-shaped cat.

Consider the complete disgust shown for any attempt at implementing rules, the lack of loyalty to any one household and most importantly of all the way he just rocks up to your house whenever the spirit moves him, meowing pitifully if eveything is not dropped in order to pet him. Dont try to predict him because you can't pin down a street cat with a calendar, baby. They can't read you see. Cats. Or are they pretending?

(Though I actually do like cats so I'm not married to this metaphor).



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by chalkncheese
.

Is the ego thing really a sign of insecurity?! I don't know. He is SO super confident.


Talent can recognise genius but mediocrity knows only itself.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Chalk I would encourage you to write into the radio show. I understand why you need a week�s notice but it�s important to balance what you need with what the kids need. I would not assume you need him more than they do, that may be something good to discuss with them, how often they want to see their dad and how can that happen.


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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
Chalk I would encourage you to write into the radio show. I understand why you need a week�s notice but it�s important to balance what you need with what the kids need. I would not assume you need him more than they do, that may be something good to discuss with them, how often they want to see their dad and how can that happen.

Hi NED, it's not really a question of when he should see them - we have a court order in place. He can see them every week if he wants and half of all of the school holidays. He just needs to make an arrangement in writing 7 days in advance - which is what the judge told him to do, not me - and he doesn't want to do that. The reason he has to provide his travel itinerary and accomodation booking too, also in the court order, is that he basically kidnapped one of them and held him hostage for three months, so we need to be able to know when he is leaving the country and on what airline so we can prevent that happening again.


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by chalkncheese
. I think he would prefer not to see the children than to have to schedule a visit. I expect that he will return to his home country in a week's time without having seen them at all.

Winner, winner chicken dinner!

Nobody gets to take part in the revenge of Shroedinger's papa (love this) and we have to stick to only seeing people who care enough to make actual plans? Oh noes! Too bad, so sad.

I don't think it's just the variety of possibilities that make him Shroedinger's cat, but also the fact that he may be a giant man-shaped cat.

Consider the complete disgust shown for any attempt at implementing rules, the lack of loyalty to any one household and most importantly of all the way he just rocks up to your house whenever the spirit moves him, meowing pitifully if eveything is not dropped in order to pet him. Dont try to predict him because you can't pin down a street cat with a calendar, baby. They can't read you see. Cats. Or are they pretending?

(Though I actually do like cats so I'm not married to this metaphor).


rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao This is hilarious!!! I will never be able to think of him in any other way than a giant man-shaped cat from now on!! That's a large proportion of my emotional scarring healed laugh


BW (me) 40
WH, serial cheater, 41
Four children:
DS1 8
DS2 7 (from one of WH's previous affairs, lives with me)
DS3 6
DD 2

D-day Jan 4 2017
Plan B (first attempt) Feb 21 2017
Plan D Aug 28 2017
Plan B (properly) Aug 31 2017

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs - and blaming it on you....or being lied about don't deal in lies..." IF, by Rudyard Kipling https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems-and-poets/poems/detail/46473
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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
Chalk I would encourage you to write into the radio show. I understand why you need a week�s notice but it�s important to balance what you need with what the kids need. I would not assume you need him more than they do, that may be something good to discuss with them, how often they want to see their dad and how can that happen.

Ned what usually happens when a plan Ber is strict about the schedule, is that dad starts to respect the schedule and stops messing the kids around. When he says to them 'I'll see you next week/next month" he should mean it and stick to it. Would you date someone who didnt tell you when they were going to see you again? If you were just constantly waiting around for them to roll up whenever they felt like some fun? Kids especially don't deserve that sort of casual dismissal. They aren't toys to be picked up whenever he's bored and they feel this cruelty deeply.

What's awesome about parallel parenting is that it is impossible for dad to be a deadbeat, or a 'fun weekend' dad. He actually has to look at their school schedule and know what's going on with them. Or when kiddos show up without carefully curated bags and a series of handwritten notes from mum he has to figure it out himself and buy them stuff for his place. Like a parent.

This is something I've been surprised and delighted to see happen in most instances when I've IMed for plan Bers with kids. I've seen dads who initially wanted to return sick children to their mother during their scheduled days learn how to actually step up. I would never have believed it possible.

Of course that's just my experience with garden variety waywards. Chalks ex is a whole other level of violence, serial and undiscovered entitlement and misogyny so who knows. Nevertheless it's not her job to do his parenting for him. Kids arent dumb and they wont be fooled unless he actually loves them all on his own big boy self.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
What's awesome about parallel parenting is that it is impossible for dad to be a deadbeat, or a 'fun weekend' dad. He actually has to look at their school schedule and know what's going on with them. Or when kiddos show up without carefully curated bags and a series of handwritten notes from mum he has to figure it out himself and buy them stuff for his place. Like a parent.

Good things happen when people are not enablers. smile


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
how often they want to see their dad and how can that happen.

Cranial rectal extraction would probably work.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by indiegirl
What's awesome about parallel parenting is that it is impossible for dad to be a deadbeat, or a 'fun weekend' dad. He actually has to look at their school schedule and know what's going on with them. Or when kiddos show up without carefully curated bags and a series of handwritten notes from mum he has to figure it out himself and buy them stuff for his place. Like a parent.

Good things happen when people are not enablers. smile

Amen. I had a friend who was driving 200 miles to BRING her children to their lazy and hostile wayward father 'so they can see their dad' to which I replied 'If he cant even pick up his daughters he's more of a donor than a dad.' (I'm working on the unsolicited advice thing).

Her reward? Constant battles with her eldest daughter that 'you're not nice enough to dad and that's why we don't see him' and panic attacks due to the regular contact and bullying from him.

She recently switched to no contact and parralel parenting as well as levelling with her daughters about the cause of the divorce. He picks them up and is actually trying now, eldest is much more respectful and DD is also much happier because (it's a cliche for a reason) she was secretly blaming herself for dad's neglect until she learned the truth.



What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted by indiegirl
Her reward? Constant battles with her eldest daughter that 'you're not nice enough to dad and that's why we don't see him' and panic attacks due to the regular contact and bullying from him.

Note well.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Chalk, what about an update? How is the divorce going . . .


3 adult children
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Hi Chalk, I was thinking about you today, how are you doing?


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D-day, plan A, & exposure Jan 2017
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Chalk, I was wondering how you are doing. Hope you have a wonderful Christmas with your kids.

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I think about you often and hope life is going well for you and your family. May you triumph over all your foes!

tl

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