I have a few questions about Exposure, recovery and false recovery that I need some clarification on. I�ll give as much context as I can before asking the questions to give you a better idea of where I am at. I�m the BS. Almost 7 months ago my wife told me she didn�t love me anymore. I have been going to see a marriage counsellor on average fortnightly since. She has been 4 times (twice with me and twice alone), and 3 of those times were in the first few months.

I�ve read Melody Lane�s Exposure 101 thread and as many other exposure threads as I can. I have also read most if not all of the Affair related articles on the main MB site (among many other articles on the site). I have also read through as many recovery / false recovery threads as I can.

I have read His Needs Her Needs, and am half way through love busters. My marriage counselor who follows Dr Harleys methodology and was the one to point me in the direction of the books. We haven�t had a proper Exposure talk yet as its only been less then 10days since I got some evidence and showed him the evidence I had and he suggested I needed more because what I have will be too easy for my wife to deny/lie/ explain away as something its not.

I should have conclusive proof in the next few days so exposure will be very soon but I need to get all my ducks in a row because we have 2 young kids and my priority through all this is them. For the record, I am still committed to making it work with my wife and think we can be even happier after this affair then we ever were before, but I am also committed to following the framework like Plan B etc if she is not going to work on it for my kids sake.

QUESTION
From what I can tell, based on the the false recovery thread, because it is so easy for the WW to slip back into the affair, that its best not to reveal all of what I know or how I got it so they can�t �plug the leaks� and I can keep using that source of information to see if the affair continues? So �play dumb� to what I actually know so I can still catch her out if she goes into a false recovery?

QUESTION
I know once you have the talk with her and she reveals everything you wanted to know, that you never talk about it with her again. I have 3 questions in regards to this:

1st-
How do I know she will be telling me the truth or is revealing everything? I had her lie straight to my face (I already had contradictory evidence to what she was saying) and I just could not tell that she was lying. If I didn�t have the evidence I would have believed her. I was reading a forum post the other day when 1 poster didn�t get as much details as she could from her husband and it was coming up to the anti-versary and she was wondering if she should bring it up again and have the talk again.

2nd-
Is the �never discuss the affair again� only related to me and her? Like does this mean I can�t talk to my family about it or that her family can�t talk to her about it? I know her parents will have a very hard time never asking her about it or not constantly bringing it up.

3rd- In your experience, how long after exposure do you have the �reveal to me all the details about your affair� talk? From little hints that she has said in the past and what Dr Harley has written in his articles, I believe she will be one of the ones that doesn�t feel guilty about it and feels justified in having the affair to start with. If anyone has had experience with their WW or WH thinking this, how long after the exposure did you guys have the talk.


QUESTIONS
Her family are going to take the news VERY hard. Should I tell them face to face (they all live local so not hard) or do you think a phone call is enough? Should she be there when I tell them or should it just be me telling them? Should I do it individually, like her parents separately and her brother separately, or can I do it when they are all together. In your experience, how long do you talk for? Do you explain everything, or just show them the proof she is having an affair and let them mourn and go home?

I have a bunch more questions so if there are any more betrayed spouse husbands in here I would love your input but for now I think this is enough to get me through the next few days.

Reveal as much as you know without telling her HOW you know. But you will first expose the affair to your friends, family and the OM's wife [if any] and his family. She will likely find out you know from others.


This is further down the road when you are in recovery. Once you are satisified you have all the facts, it should not be brought up again. Unless of course, new developments emerge.


A lie detector test is a good method to ensure you are getting the full truth.

Once you get into recovery, you can encourage the family to drop it so you can focus on recovery.


There is no rule of thumb here.



Tell them face to face.


No, she should not be forewarned or involved in exposure.


I am not a betrayed husband but the advice will be the same. I would add that you need to have a plan to expose to the OMs side the same day along with any children over age 4. Is the OM married?

Is this a workplace affair? Does the OM live close to you?

here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

The most important book for you to read is Surviving an Affair.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Thanks Melody, I appreciate you writing back.

In response to your questions:


No not a workplace affair (although they met at her part time job but he has since moved on) and yes, I am pretty sure he lives within a 15 minute drive of us.

As far as I can tell, he doesn't have a wife or girlfriend to expose to and I still need to get the FB list of friends/family.


So in terms of timing then it should be:
- Tell my family
- Tell her family
- FB message OM family friends
- Message (or call) her friends
- Talk to her about it.

So I would talk to her LAST not FIRST?

Also, in terms of exposing to her family face to face, do you think its more appropriate to tell her parents and brother separately? Like have a conversation with me and her parents then afterwards drive around to her brothers and tell him? Or do you think it is ok for me to just meet them all at 1 place and tell them all together?

Just be aware that this will have to be addressed and resolved because if you live that close to the OM, it will be a perpetual trigger and you will be facing an on again, off again affair.


Have you checked him out to see if he has a wife?


She will likely find out and reach out to you [in an attempt to stop you] while you are exposing. So you will need to expose from a place where you can't be interrupted. But yes, you should speak to her when you finish all your exposures.

Probably best to tell the parents face to face and then tell the brother. You don't want to forewarn anyone of your plans.

Ok thanks Melody. That helps a lot.


I know we will have to move, at least to the other side of the city to start with.


He has a blocked FB page but I found messages between my WW and her friend and her friend made it sound like he was single and available, but I could be viewing it through the wrong lens. The night before exposure I plan to get the FB list of family and friends so I will find out for sure then.

OK thanks Melody.

Im so grateful for yourself and the countless other admins, moderators and frequent posters on this forum who are helping people like me navigate through this extremely difficult time period.

You are very welcome! I am glad you made it here.

Please really dig into the OMs background because you may discover he is married or has a GF. He could be telling people he is single and may not be.

definitely will do. Exposure will make a much bigger impact if he is.

How did she meet the OM? Who is he? An ex or a stranger or what?

What is the evidence that you do have?

She already knows she is having an affair.

She met him at her part time job which he has moved on from. They are also in the same group of friends. He was a stranger not an ex.

Our counsellor told us not to have any friendships of the opposite sex because of the danger of them filling our emotional needs. So she told me that she had a "friendship" last year but nothing inappropriate happened and that its stopped and she's only seen him once or twice and when I asked if they talk or message she said "no because that would be crossing a line".

EVIDENCE
Screenshots of her messaging her friend telling her friend that she has been talking to OM a lot recently but that they better stop talking before it gets out of hand. That message was 1 week before we talked, and I have a screenshot of OM and WW having a FB chat as recently as the night before the talk. The actual messages were erased but his image was at the top with the timestamp of 6:38pm. So she was lying to her friend as well (who is apart of that group and knows that they have been flirting etc based off other messages I have read between them).

The next morning after that conversation she tweaked her FB password by 1 character in our shared password manager so I wouldn't have her FB password. The password manager has version history so I have a screenshot of what it was before and after and who changed it.

4 days after that conversation, I got screenshots of another FB chat where he invites her to come to a different city (for a holiday) and she says YESSS and she sends him a photo of a skirt and says "this is the skirt I was talking about yesterday....the one I'm going to wear when I let you be the boss....yes that zip goes all the way"

Theres also the general behavior, like getting REALLY angry when I asked her about the "friendship" which I did in the most innocent way I could. There was no anger on my side but she got SUPER defensive and angry about it that I didn't trust her. She's barely ever without her phone, and if its laying close to her, its always screen side down, like she's afraid of what might pop up.

My counsellor says that I technically have enough but that she could deny away a lot of it and to try and get more.

I am doing using a semen detection kit on some of her underwear tonight that have some suspicious looking stains on them and am hoping that it will come back positive and that will be the nail in the coffin in terms of evidence, she won't be able to explain that one away as we haven't had sex in more then 6 months.

For anyone else reading, if the test comes back negative, do you think what I have will be enough to send out in the Exposure?

No, I would get more intel before you expose. You can put a voice activated recorder in her car [or wherever she would speak to him] and get a GPS tracker on her car. Can you get spyware on her phone?

The best way would be to hire a PI for a couple of days. But they can be pricey. A good PI can get everything you would need very quickly.

Thanks Melody,

I have put some on her computer but can't get enough time alone with her phone to put it on that.

I am picking up the GPS tracker tonight at the same time as doing the test so I should get some locations if she goes to see him this weekend.

They have gone "underground" for lack of a better word. She knows I have been snooping but must think I haven't found anything. She told me so last night, that she wants me to stop snooping because it makes her uncomfortable even though "I have nothing to hide".

I have spoken to a PI and was planning to hire them if the test came back negative, knowing that I would have the GPS tracker they could use to help speed up the process of catching her out.

I should have ordered a voice activated recorder at the same time as GPS but I didn't have enough cash and couldn't use our joint account for obvious reasons. But I have already spoken to someone who will lend me the cash to get the VAR so it stays under the radar

I'm feeling the pressure now because she is talking about separating and moving out is going to see a place tomorrow morning which is only about 10mins drive away. She says we can try but she wants to move out of the place we are in (my parents live in a granny flat up the back of the place). In the context of her having a relationship with OM it all makes sense. She hates this end of the city and wants to move up the other end where her parents are. But now, she is happy to move just around the corner... Also, having the freedom to see the OM whenever she wants, as opposed to now where she has to have a reason to go out since he can't come to our place because my Dad works for himself so could be home at any point of the day.

If I were in your shoes, I would find the money to hire a PI to tail her for a few days. A GPS alone won't give you the evidence of an affair you need.

yeah I was just going to give them the login details for the GPS so they can use that to track her aswell. I went to the store and grabbed a voice activated recorder, not the smallest or anything since its a dictation device but it can be used with voice activation so hoping to put that in tonight and get something usable over the weekend.

She emailed me today and asked me how I knew she looked at the photos on my iPad, and did I look at her phone and see the pictures she took of my photo stream? I didn't think to disable my iPad until Sunday night so I have NO idea what photos she saw that I took. I had cleared them all off my phone and checked they weren't syncing to iCloud but I didnt think to check my iPad or what was already synced as I don't use it often.

Really feeling the pressure now from all this and as we have a decent chuck of money saved in our joint savings account and I don't want her to up and transfer it away and then just run off... I can't think of a good reason to give her if she asks me why I transferred the money myself into an account that she can't access. I was just going to do it the day of or the day before exposure.