Married 11 years, together 13, 5 kids, ranging from 10 to 2.

Wife shocked me back in February that she wanted out. Did the usual anger-sadness-beg-plead-etc which of course didn't work. Went about a month and a half from that announcement until actually spending nights apart. I made a great deal of changes in how I was 'showing up' as a father and husband but in the end it wasn't enough to get past several years of doing a really lousy job of meeting her emotional needs. Her main complaint is that we had become totally distanced from one another; she had tried to get through to me how unhappy she was but I didn't want to hear it, couldn't understand it, and believed that it was mostly her problem. She has felt alone, unloved, unimportant, and unfulfilled.

Our kids stay at the house and we trade off, half and half. One of us is at the house, the other is at a small apartment that we share. Finances are not split, we are still paying everything as usual. She has been a stay at home mom since shortly before the first one was born, some part-time work here and there, currently looking for work to pay the added expenses but with the cost of childcare when school is out her hours will be a bit limited unless finds a really good job.

We have lots of contact though, guess this is a good thing, it gives me a chance to attempt to meet her needs and show her the better man I am becoming.

However, I don't know how much hope I have that we can turn this around. She is not really interested in "working on the marriage" at this time, she has been unhappy and neglected for long enough that I am sure my account in her Love Bank is pretty far into overdraft. I guess, from what I was reading about the 3 States of Mind, that she is in Withdrawal now. We have never been much for arguing so I don't know what will show me that she has moved into Conflict. Perhaps I will know it when I see it.

I don't think there is an affair involved, nothing odd on phone or computer, no odd comings and goings, etc. Never say never of course but I don't think it's likely.

Anyone have any good ideas on what I should and should not be doing. She does not think that she can fall in love again with me, I just want to get the chance to show that the changes are permanent--she is worried that they won't last and she'll be back where she was before. Really hate to see my family destroyed just because I was too prideful to listen (earlier) and she is too afraid to give it a go (now).

If we had been doing the 15 hours a week of undivided attention there is NO WAY we would be in this fix. I read that even more than that is required to rebuild romantic love, I doubt she will be up for that any time soon! So what do I do, just make the most of what time I do have?

We are seeing a (seemingly) good Christian marriage counselor, both individually and together. I will ask him later this week about this program, and how we could tweak it to fit this situation.

Not talking divorce, yet; initially she was considering it as a first step but backed off to separation, even almost didn't go through with that but did in the end.

Hello dad, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. The advice we give on the forum comes from Dr. Bill Harley, a clinical psychologist and author of Surviving an Affair. And what we have seen is when a woman wants to "separate" it is almost always due to an affair. Here is a quote and a link to the corresponding article:


HOW TO SURVIVE INFIDELITY
COPING WITH INFIDELITY: BEGINNING (PART 1) How Do Affairs Begin?

Did she tell you something like "I love you but am not in love with you?"

It seems you are spending alot of time in counseling that would be better spent investigating to see if there is an affair and working on saving your marriage. If there is an affair, that is the reason she wants to separate. All the counseling in the world will be wasted if there is an affair in the works. Most wayward spouses who attend "counseling" are doing it so they can say "I tried" everything before they end the marriage. It is part of the ruse. It sounds like she is in that stage.

If she is having an affair, we could help you bust it up and save your marriage. But if there is an affair and you are wasting time going to counseling, I predict your marriage will fail.

My suggestion would be to quietly do some super sleuthing and find out what is going on. DO NOT ASK HER. Once you have the evidence, we can help you save your marriage if it is not too late. [it usually is not]

Yes, the I care about you but not in love with you right now.

Spying? How? On what? House and apt i assume, have free access to both; her phone is a newer iphone, so I think tough to put software onto. We have a Chromebook, not a pc. Cars? Idk how that would play out especially if got caught.

I really hope you're wrong but after doing some more reading here she's certainly been 'ripe for the picking' for some time.

Thanks

This means she has a new point of comparison. It is a telltale sign of an affair.


Can you afford a PI? A good PI can get everything you need in a couple of days. Some other things you could do is put a GPS on her car, a voice activated recorder and spycam in the apartment. It shouldn't be that hard. Just try and think of when and how she would meet someone and focus on that.


I'm sorry but its the only thing that makes sense. It makes much more sense for her to work out her issues with you - which you are willing to do - but ODDLY she is not willing to do so. The only thing that makes sense is that she is having an affair and blames you for "not meeting her needs" to throw you off balance. This is a pretty classic tactic of people in an affair. They profess "I love you but am not in love with you" [which means they have a new point of comparison] and she has "been unhappy for years" and new grievances are either manufactured or old grievances exaggerated to justify the separation. The idea is to quietly back out of the marriage because of "unresolved differences" and "we tried counseling but nothing worked" and then once separated she meets some "new" wonderful guy! Sounds to me like she is in phase 2 of this plan, where she is going to "counseling" [and not really doing anything to fix the marriage] so she can say "we tried everything, even counseling."

She is counting on the hope that the "counselor" is not experienced enough in infidelity to detect an affair. Most counselors have no experience in infidelity and even less in saving marriages, so it is a DREAM set up for a wayward trying to exit a marriage for an affair. So instead of resolving the real problems in your marriage [most likely an affair] you stay distracted in a counselors office.

So far no evidence found of any infidelity. What additional recommendations do you have?

What spy methods are you using?

FULL STOP. I JUST FOUND EVIDENCE OF THE BEGINNING OF AN AFFAIR. Been looking thru trash, cars, nothing there. Been looking thru her phone when asleep, just found that she has been messaging a guy from AA, and has set up a dinner date for this Wed. Not gone on for long first message was yesterday.

What do I do now. It is nobody I know and he isn't married.

I mean I don't think it has gone on long from the content of the messages. I got screenshots.

Looked him up on fb to find what I can. Wonder if should message him to stay away. I don't know what she may have told him. Guy looks like a real scumbag.

Probably need to get some spyware loaded, I can't say anything to her or she will know how I found out and that will prevent any future intel gathering.

Guess can't msg him either or he will tell her and she will know.

If stop this one without spyware loaded I won't know about the next. What works well for Apple?

Your wife is an alcoholic? How long has she been sober? You never mentioned this. How long has she been in AA?

18 years sober. Didn't know that was significant.

Does she still go to AA? What is her involvement with the AA groups?

Yes, very much so involved. Womens meeting every week for a very long time, and tries for more as time permits. More recently, more meetings than that.

Perhaps she is looking for men there as well as the mental benefits! Ouch

Does the response change being that this has begun after separation?

I mean, being that we're already on the rocks may mean that this is simply The End?

Doesn't have to be from my end as long as she's WILLING to do the repair work.

But, being that we've had problems for a while (2 years or so) and this is after separation, there may not be a real good incentive to come back-not like things have been good and she had a one-night stand.

AA is the perfect place for relationships to develop. Or affairs. Emotional needs are met, so it is logic people call in love.

I just turned down a date with a man because he said he was divorced, but the papers aren't signed yet. No way I'm dating a married man.

Don’t confront her or him. Can you get spyware on her phone? Have you checked out the operation investigation forum here on the forums?

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