Medic's thread got me thinking on this loaded topic. Personally I don't think they can work, but that might just be because I've been burned by them (H's emotional affairs). Any thoughts on this?

I don't think there is necessarily a problem with opposite sex friendships. I have had friends at work who were male, but we certainly never discussed anything personal. Come to think of it, I rarely discussed anything personal with my female friends at work either. My H has had at least one female friend, and I didn't have a problem with it. She came to dinner at our house, he would mention it when they went out to lunch, etc. I think it only becomes a problem when the spouse begins to feel the need for secrecy - for example not mentioning when they go out to lunch. Of course maybe I would feel differently if his affair had started as a friendship, instead of a personal ad.

I agree. Its fine as long as the spouse is aware with what's going on and feels ok with it. when there is animousity between the friend and the spouse, not good , If the friend avoids the spouse, also not good.If the husband or wife forgets to tells their spouse about things they did or discussed with their friend, not good again. If the spouse begins to feel left out by this friendship, not good.

I would tend to tread lightly around them as well. My W was even honest with me on many occasions when she was with OM. She would tell me they were going to have a drink after work to have a "***** session" about the troubles at work. Or, she would tell me that she was taking a fellow employee to OM's new place of business to show her the facility.<P>Always legitimate reasons for seeing him, but she never told me the "other stuff" of course. I'd be careful even if the "friendship" is out in the open. You may not be getting the FULL story. The spouse with the opposite sex friend might be able to delude himself/herself into thinking they've been honest because they always tell you when they're with the OP, they just don't tell you EVERYTHING.<P>Tread lightly.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Cristalle1--<P>Danger zone! Other sex friendships are potential death! <P>I agree that you can have a friendship with persons of the opposite sex, but I also agree that when you share information of a sensitive nature -- marriage problems, sex lives, family issues, etc -- it breeds problems.<P>Check my profile. I got burned when my W had an EA with her best friend's H. She claimed that it was no different than the friendship with her best friend. The obvious change -- and she never realized it -- was when she started refering to the friendship as "John and Jane", instead of "jane and John" as she had for years before. She shared marital issues and issues of personal nature with this OM. And, she knew I was concerned about how the relationship had developed. Still, she claimed only "friendship".<P>It's asking for trouble! Big time!<P>-- keystone

I used to think that was perfectly fine and any healthy couple should be open minded and understanding of such things. Well, look where that got me: my "friend" has H's child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have a NEW POLICY: no opposite-sex friends. Period. Some guy recently posted some FINE guidelines on this topic, ala avoiding ever being alone with the opposite sex and I think that's dandy.

Hey Cris and all others,<P>I didn't mean to start any trouble here. I was just telling all of you of my great day with my friend Michele and my son. I have finally found my life , self respect and happiness again. <P>I know that we are all very emotionally sensitive because of our situations. But, I can tell you that I will not cross the line as my W has. <P>My friend and I are getting close and I will not deny that. We have seen each other for the last three weeks or so. She was an old girlfriend from 13 years ago. I know if I would have actually tried I could have slept with her. I will not and can not do that. We discussed this subject before day one. I stand by my "I am legally and morally married to Val" statement.<P>I am truely not looking for anything else out of this relationship more that female companionship. I love my W.<P>We are both aware of the boundry lines that I have drawn. We are honest to God only friends sharing time together. I have slept with her in the past so the intrique and wonderment is not a factor. <P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medid

Hi Medic - you didn't start any trouble! <P>It was the responses you got that made me think about this topic. It seems to be quite the loaded subject for most people, and I just got to wondering why so many people were against the idea. <P>So don't worry <P>- Cristalle<P>

I'm no longer sure what's OK and what's not OK in terms of opposite-sex friends.<P>You all know about my H and Dragon Lady -- in theory, "just a friend" (although I don't know what's "just" about a very good friend of either sex). You know about how there seems to be an "intensity factor" that makes one friendship OK and another one not OK.<P>What complicates matters is that I have in the past had male friends that I worked with. At one time, there was a group of us that was about a half-dozen guys and two women, one of them me. Both women were married. We were all very close, and we all had "the camaraderie born of misery" at work. I think this is another factor. Where people work together in a bad situation, there evolves a "you and me against the world" attitude, which may spill over into including the spouse in "the world."<P>In my case, no actual affairs grew out of it, though the other woman in the group was unhappily married at the time and was overly close with one of the guys. She was not sexually attracted to him (though he was to her, and wanted her to leave her H for him), but she did rely heavily on his friendship. She was Chinese, as was her H, and she was wrestling with cultural issues in the marriage as well.<P>In my case, I was pretty close with all of these guys. I don't think I discussed my marital problems with any of them, but as you all know, when my H was severely depressed, I got too close to one of them -- ironically, this guy was sort of peripheral to the "core group." He and I started spending more time together, always sitting next to each other at lunch, and as you know, I changed jobs before anything more could evolve.<P>He was the only male friend I've had that there was ever a potential problem with. One of these guys (who knows my H and always asks how he is) calls me about once a year, just to say hi. And even that -- H stiffens up when I tell him R. called.<P>I had this guy I work with now, whose W was having an affair with a family friend. I used to let him vent at me, because the situation was bizarre and I wouldn't judge. My H was uncomfortable with that, and threw it in my face when I tried to talk to him about Dragon Lady, even though I never socialized with this guy, never saw him outside of work, let alone go to his house alone, and all conversations took place at the office.<P>So now my rule is: No male friends. Period.

Medic: IMO, you're a bottle of wine and a tearful "hold me, I'm sad about my unhappy marriage" evening away from falling madly in bed with your ex-g/f. As far as the mystery & intrigue being lost - well, she might have learned better gag reflex control or shaved herself bare or loves anal sex now or learned other new tricks in the 13 years you've been away. Intrigued now? I don't mean to disrespect you - but if she's attractive and loving and available - you're playing with fire. <P>My best male friend is 42years old, 300lbs. and lives with his mother. He collects sardonic toys, B-movies, unusual music and creates "best of" Jerry Springer video tapes. He's on welfare.<P>My H may have as many op. sex friends as he wishes, as long as she's similar to my friend described above. <P>Unhappy housewives, ex-girlfriends, predatory females and crack whores are forbidden. <P>

I'm with you, KarmaGrrl. My H complained about me once befriending a teenaged boy 16 years younger than I. I told him that if he could find a GIRL 16 years younger (making her 10 years old) for a friend, he was more than welcome to it. <P>I figure there aren't too many predatory or unhappy 10 year old housewives out there, so we'd be pretty safe. H didn't see the joke

Karmagrrl,<P>Thanks for your input. Some quick facts. She always had good control of her gag reflex. I'm not intrested now. She did shave herself bare in the past. I'm not interested now. She might like anal sex. I'm really not interested now. Learned other tricks. I'm not interested now. We, Michele and I, had some problems in the past and obviously split up or we would have been together to this day. There were no problems in the bedroom department.<P>She is tall about 5 foot 9, naturally blonde [I don't know why I always go after the blondes] and has the longest legs that she could wrap around you. This might shock the [censored] out of you guys, but, my need for emotional, physical contact or sexual intercourse is in the negative numbers. I'm not interested now. Yes, I am a healthy 39 year old male. Well now I smoke like a chimney. <P>I'm not taking applications for my third W. All I can say is I'm not interested. I love Val with all my heart and soul. If she is does not want to work on the marriage I can not make her. I'm not going to sit here by the phone every night and wait for her to call. <P>If the divorce goes through it will still be a long time before I am mentally ready for someone else. If the final papers came today I would not call M up and ask her to hop in the sack and screw her brains out. I'm not ready for that. That's not what I'm looking for now. Bottle of wine optional.<P>In a perverted way, I'm glad that the affair took place. I was forced to take a good hard look at my life. I have made great strides in improving myself.<P>"I will somehow be somebody's someone someday"...Triump... The Sport of Kings<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic.

In regards to the question of opposite sex friends, I am forever tainted now. I used to think they were possible to some degree. <P>The problem is that comparisons will be made at some point. Opposite sex friends usually have a physical attraction to one another and then as time passes and confidences are shared a friendly comforting hug, and as KarmaGrrl stated a bottle of wine and it's over.<P>For me, I just don't think they are possible anymore. <P>SHA<BR>

Exactly, SHA.<P>Case in point: I had a great male friend for 12 years, never a frisson of anything other than friendship, got along great. Thought I could tell him anything and vice versa. Well, just this spring he confesses that he's been in love with me for the whole time and was hoping my marriage would break up so I would "come to him" or some such crap. <P>With this example and my H's friends "falling in love with him" because he was such a great "listener", you can see why I'm leery.

And frankly I MISS that friendship so very much. I told him everything, shared everything that I couldn't share with my H. Sorry, guys, but it was a GREAT friendship ... just went the wrong direction -- because I wanted it to.<P>I think I'm capable of a male/female friendship now. Because I don't have any interest in men emotionally or physically. I don't want a man for a relationship, but do like talking with them, debating theology with them, etc.<P>If this marriage doesn't make it, I am able to say with calm assurance that I will NOT get married again. But that shouldn't stop friendships with men. I just have to take them at face value and remember that all the ones in my life lied and hurt me.<P>Cynical today, huh? 4 cups of coffee and a headache.

Maya, this is what scares me about opposite-sex friendships:<P>"And frankly I MISS that friendship so very much. I told him everything, shared everything that I couldn't share with my H."<P>That's exactly my point. Bad stuff happens when you're closer to your opposite-sex friend than you are to your H. And the "sharing", by definition, distances you from your H and bonds you closer to the other person.<P>There should be nothing told to or shared with another person (male OR female) that your spouse isn't privy to.

And you know THAT'S what I now HATE about being married. I don't wanna have to answer to anyone. I want to be able to pick my own friends, e-mail whoever I want to.<P>My H has never been my best friend, EVER. He never will be because I just don't trust him like that. Years and years of opinionation and being brushed off have erroded all that. We weren't "friends" when we got married. We were "hot" for each other.<P>Now I see that he did/does love me, but I can't say that I married him for the right reasons. I was scared of being an old maid at 20. What a bunch of crap.<P>And because I'm married to a man, I can't have a man friendship with anyone else, even though I can't have a friendship with my H. And NOW I don't even want THAT.<P>

My opinion on this matter may differ from others, but here it is:<P>All through high school I had male friends, not unusual for teenagers. As time went on, graduation took place, friends moved on, I moved away. When I moved back to my home town, I ran into two of these male friends. In school I called them my best friends. Since I was getting divorced, I saw nothing wrong with 'hanging out' with either one of them. And I did! We went to ball games, movies, out to eat, hung out in my apartment and watched TV, got together with other friends and played cards. Then I started dating the man that is now my husband. He knew these men were my friends, and had no objections. He got to know them, and liked them. Now, after we were married, I no longer went 'out with the guys' unless my husband was with me. I can honestly say that no sexual thoughts even entered my mind where these 2 male friends were concerned. One night, however, (before I was married) one of these friends said to me "You look so beautiful tonight...so sexy...if we weren't such good friends I'd take you to bed!" then we both laughed, and he never made such a comment again.<P>So yes, I think it's possible to have op. sex friends with no trouble. It doesn't always happen that way, but it <B> is </B> possible.<P>Gabbie

I think it's an individual thing. Some can do it, some cannot. <B>I cannot.</B><P>As long as I am married, I cannot seem to swing anything more than a cursory male work-friend or other-couple-friend ("Good Morning" or "How's Midge doing with the baby?" that kind of thing). I absolutely, positively do not think it's possible for me to have a male friend where sparks don't fly one way or the other. I am deadly serious. <P>Yes, I have some male friends who I'm not in love with... but I'm also very leary. I have to know where <B>they</B> are coming from first, then I can relax. I have to know: does their W know about me, are we talking personal about their relationship, and are they interested in me personally??? If their W doesn't know, or we are being personal beyond what we'd talk about in a group, then it's wrong. Period.<P>As far as what <B>Maya</B> said... I 100% agree. I miss the friendship with the OM... but not because he was a friend first, but because he was someone who loved me and listened (BLECH, BLAH, SPIT... sorry, it embarrasses me even now). He was <B>not</B> really a friend to me, just wanted my body and soul... <sigh> Hmmm...<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Medic: Thanks for not flaming me regarding my post about you and M's friendship. Thanks for understanding that I was simply posting some fears that 99.99997% of all women in a similar situation would have if their husband decided to buddy up with an ex. <P>I know these fears personally - my H is hanging with his ex-g/f and it has caused alot of problems in our marriage.<P>I'm sorry that you're feeling so blue, Medic. Your sense of humor is so wonderful -I'm hoping you'll be "somebody's someone" someday soon - when you're ready to open your heart to love and faith and being very vunerable to being hurt once again. Of course, you're not there yet but that day will come again. I doubt you're the type to become hopelessly bitter and jaded. IMO, looks fade, money comes and goes but friendship and humor always remain- and these are two good things to base a relationship upon. You have alot to offer a woman. <P>Each friendship needs to be taken on a case by case manner. In Gabby's situation, she rightly includes her H with her male friends and it's a shared relationship - not a private friendship she hides from her H. <P>SHA, Cristalle, new_beginning and others have correctly pointed out the fact that there's usually a sexual attraction going on somewhere in the friendship - not always mutual - but it's there, simmering in the background. <P>Sometimes all it takes is vunerability & a bottle of wine to separate the friends from the lovers in our lives.