Goodness...This is such a long story I don't really want to post a 3 pager... <P>Basically, I was unfaithful because my spouse didn't make me happy. I told him that if he didn't do anything something would happen at one point, I told him why after the event happened, I even told him what he had to do to make me happier.<P>NO GO. <P>What do you do when you feel your spouse has had his chance to come back to you and make you happy and he failed? Not only did he fail but he also knows he is failing?<P>Let me know if anyone has any ideas...<P>Thanks for the time.<P>Yellow<BR>

Uhmmmm...you might have to bit the bullet and type a long post...it is hard to respond with so little to go on.<P>I am very sorry for the pain you must be in...<P>Kathi

OK, you wanted a long story, here it is:<P>I was accepted as an intern at the company where my current spouse worked and was 160 miles away from my home town. We got to know each other for about one year before we got serious. I then found my first job in my home town. So I bought my self a car to go and see him every weekend (he didn’t have a car). With the winters that we can experience up here in the northern parts, I was lucky to avoid any accident for the following 2 years. He only came to see me maybe 10 times in those 2 years, mostly because the activities we can do around his area are more interesting than in my corner of the world. <P>During that period, we basically mentioned to each other that we were both interested in marriage and having a family, which is what I look for mostly in a relationship. My goal in life was to have a husband and a family, so anyone who didn’t want to get married or have kids was kind of stricken off my list.<P>As the job in my home town got less and less interesting for me and as my relationship with him was still doing well even after being 2 ½ hours apart for 2 years, I decided to change jobs and move closer to him. This way we could finally head towards our dreams of family life. It wasn’t an easy decision to make since my parents aren’t healthy. On the other hand, they don’t really want to get treatment for their condition. I had a chance at my own life, and even though I didn’t want to leave them behind in this condition, I figured I had to make a decision that would benefit me.<P>So I moved and the first thing I spoke about after taking the time to settle in was my intentions of starting to save some money for a future home, a wedding, furniture, kids, etc… He brushed it off in a quiet way and it just never happened. Then, I started mentioning dates in 1999 to get married. He went along with that and told me it was a good idea. Well, I’m still not married to this date. When I realized he wasn’t going to ask and that he never answered me when I asked him, I put my money away for my personal retirement plan. Then, I sort of told myself that I didn’t need to necessarily be married to have my family. So I proposed to start trying for a baby after my work project was done. After having already decided on what the kids’ names could be, he then told me he wasn’t sure he wanted kids.<P>At that point, I just died. I couldn’t believe that I had spent all that time traveling to see him, spending that money to buy a car to be with him, leaving my parents that would need me still to this day… I spent so much of time, effort, money and energy to be with him in the hopes of having my dream happen… I encouraged him to start his own company which was his life dream, but when it came to what I wanted, I was just kind of put aside.<P>I must also tell you that he is not a talker, which is a killer for a relationship. I, on the other hand, have absolutely no problems talking about my feelings. So I did. I mentioned to him that the fact that he didn’t talk was going to destroy us, that he couldn’t keep on misleading me, that at one point I wanted him out of my life because if he didn’t know where he was headed, that I knew what I wanted and had no time to lose, that when I was with him I basically felt like an accessory that he would use when he needed and then just put aside and that if he didn’t get himself in gear at some point, I did not know what would happen… (And so on)<P>Well, now I know what would happen because it happened. I had to go away for a business trip. Met a man that did exactly what I needed. He made me feel good about my self, was actually looking for someone stable and wanted the same things I did. I know I hurt my spouse. But before I left for that business trip, I had given him the time I was gone to think and tell me if he really didn’t want to have a family with me when I came back. So I asked him upon my return what his decision was, and he basically told me that he hadn’t changed his mind. Unfortunately, that made me not regret what I had done at that point. It also made me realize that you could be with who you think is the best person for you, but what it all comes down to is that we are all basically alone.<P>A week after my business trip, he found out what I had done. He didn’t talk to me for a day. Then he asked me why, telling me that he felt sick to his stomach and asking me all kinds of questions on what had happened when, where, how often, etc…. I repeated all of the instances mentioned above and more. Five to ten minutes after all the explaining and crying was done, and that I told him that all the signs and warnings were there, I was forgiven. That was another shocker: 5 to 10 minutes and it was over with a hug. He did come to me for a second, third and even fourth explanation over a period of about 6 months, every 2 months. He finally ended up telling me I had good reasons for doing it and now he doesn’t ask anymore. He knows he is not making me happy, not like I would like to be.<P>Now he says he wants kids, but I’m afraid he wants kids because he doesn’t want to lose me, not because he wants them. And that is not what I want. I want him to have them with me because he wants them. Having kids is a lifetime job and he will not be happy for the rest of his life if he does this for the wrong reasons. I also think he wants them now because I told him I didn’t want to get married anymore. He states that he always saw himself married before having children. I told him that with all the things that he mislead me to believe, he wasn’t going to mislead me to a wedding.<P>Now please don’t get me wrong, he is a good man. He does not drink or take drugs, he is not abusive and he has a regular job. He still kisses and hugs me as if we were just starting our relationship. His expectations of our couple are good, he just thinks they’ll come out of the blue, without any work, and that just isn’t going to work. My feeling is that his parents did a great job at smothering him as a child, and he does not take responsibilities that easily. He is 30 years old right now. I know that some men stay children for the longest time. What I am trying to have him understand is that if we do have kids, communication and efforts will have to improve, because I won’t necessarily have the time to take care of what he wants for himself after the kids... <P>Unfortunately, he is still mentioning different projects that I know will not happen. I’m wondering if the reverse psychology trick, by telling him I didn’t want to marry him, is going to work. I would like for him to ask me, but he won’t because I guess he feels I “wear the pants”. The fact that I don’t want to marry him seems to affect him, but I still don’t think he’ll ever take the courage to ask me. <P>So now I don’t know what to do to make him act on anything, whether it’s a project, or simply just me. The problem is that I have another business trip coming up… And I know that if I don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel soon, I will be doing it again. Not because I want to hurt him, but because I will need my ego to have a boost after all this. And like I said, if I feel like I am alone in this relationship, why wouldn’t I try to see what is on the other side of the fence, for me? I feel bad because I had a lot of trust in this man, and he slowly took that away, for both me and him. I just never thought I would ever see anyone as a simple “sperm donor”. Even my friends don't recognize me anymore...<P>Thanks for the help.<P>Yellow<P>

<P>Hi,<BR>I have a question, if you never married this man why don't you leave him if you feel he is letting you down?Why do you have to cheat on him first?<BR>If you do not really wanna marry him and you do not trust that he is being geniune(sp) maybe the best thing for you is to leave him instead of going ahead and cheating on him because you need an ego boost.<BR>I believe cheating is neither good for you or for him or for your future relationships so take a minute and look at your current relationship, if it is worth saving regardless of how many chances you gave him then work on it and stop cheating yourself with this OM.If you do not want it to work out then gather some strength and leave, it will be good for you to take a stand and make a decision.<BR>Good luck.<P>------------------<BR>they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength

Thanks for your reply Maxini,<P>To answer your question, mostly because I gave him the best 5 years of my life. I'm not talking money, time or even effort, I gave him my youth and most importantly my heart. I can't get that back. <P>The fact that we are not married doesn't make it any easier or painless, it just relieves the wallet. I would prefer to fix the problem. Leaving will not make the next man I meet any different, and it will not teach my boyfriend to respect others. We all need to work at our relationships. <P>What I am trying to find out here is what could I do to make him realize that what he is doing is wrong. Not only for me but for his friends, family and co-workers as well. This isn't just an issue for our relationship. He is misleading with everyone. I could tell him what <BR>he did wrong, he would basically say I am right, turn around and do <BR>it again...<P>I just don't think that how he is going about life is right, and I would rather make him learn and understand that, than just avoid it.<P>So if anyone has any ideas as to what I could do to make him understand, I would really appreciate knowing them.<P>Y<P>

I do not know that you can make anyone realise or do anything, all you can do is talk to them and the rest is upto them.If you do not like how this man does things in life I do not think you can change him, only he will see the need to change.<P>I guess what I am trying to say is you cannot change a person nomatter how much you love them.All you can do is talk to them and if that does not work then you can decide for yourself if you want to work at it or leave.But cheating is not the way to save your relationship whatever your reason is.<P>Only you can choose to believe that this man has changed for the better.If now he wants to get married because he does not wanna loose you then maybe his love for you is geniune, but you are the one to decide to believe that.If you think he is doing like he is used to then take your time and decide what to do about it.<P>I would say before you have kids with this man take the time to work on your relationship and like you say improve on communication and all those good stuff.<P>It takes a lot of work, and sometimes nomatter how you say it some people refuse to believe that.<BR>Good luck, you will make it.<P>Maxini<BR><P>------------------<BR>they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength

I appreciate everything you've mentioned. <P>To tell you the truth, I know that repeating what happened will most probably not help our relationship. But that one time it happened for us, I can't say it didn't help bring up more questions. It made him see things my way, and made him realize I might be leaving. <P>This was almost one year ago, and there have been many tears since then. It has made him realize I wasn't happy and that we needed to work this out. And I have to admit he is trying.<P>I do like your comment that mentions that if you love someone, the number of chances you give them should be irrelevant. I'll chew on that one a little more... <P>Thanks for your help, I just might be seeing a light.<P>Y<BR>

Yellow—<P>I was in almost the same situation with my H a couple of years ago. I moved to the town where he lived with the agreement that we’d be getting married very soon. While living together, he began expressing doubts about marriage. I was devastated, and lovebusted all over the place. My behavior, of course, did little to make him feel more comfortable about us.<P>I had to have a heart-to-heart with myself. What did I really, truly want? A marriage, with or without him? Or being with him, regardless of circumstances? I finally decided that although I would have preferred to be married to him right away, I couldn’t MAKE him do anything if he wasn’t ready and I should just quit worrying and manipulating, and do my part to make a happy life for us. Once H saw me happy, that was the turnaround to alleviate his fears and we set a date. <P>If you continue your affair, you are pulling both of you that much farther away from resolving your problems. Why? Because you are allowing someone ELSE to meet your emotional needs. It’s a selfish, quick fix that only harms you more in the long run. So really think about what you want, and YOU make it happen. Is it happiness with your man? Or is this something you will never completely find with him? If so, end the relationship before beginning another.<P>Keep us posted. I really think good communication skills is the key for your relationship. What do you think? <P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Laura<P>"I cannot care a little for you. I love you only just enough to love you all the way."~~Rod McKuen

Thanks Lucks,<P>It helps me to know that someone else went through almost the same situation. I can't really say I am having an affair though... It was more like a one night stand, almost one year ago... And I haven't even kept contact with this other guy. I told him I didn't want this to happen again, and we just simply never spoke or wrote back. <P>I do know that I would prefer staying with my boyfriend. And I told him that SOOOOOOOOO many times even before and after anything happened. The thing is that I don't know if the reason to not getting married and having kids is because he is not ready. He is known for saying one thing and doing another. Which is why I mostly mention misleading than anything else. <P>We had an argument a couple of days ago... He has been looking to change jobs for the past 6 months, but hasn't sent out his CV anywhere (see what I mean?). All of a sudden, he decides to write to his friend, who lives 2 hours away, because his friend's company just posted 12 new positions... What does that tell me? <P>I can't change jobs right now and I did mention that to him. He said he could commute, but I really don't think that he thgought this one out too much... I just couldn't beleive that after all we have been through this past year that he would even think of something like this.<P>Anyway, leaving many many details out, I basically ended up telling him that I thought I had done all I can for now and that if anything was going to happen for us, that it was up to him to clear his mind up with what he wanted. Because no matter how much I want things to happen, it won't make US want them.<P>Like usual, I'm was right and he doesn't want us to split up because he wants to grow old with me...<P>I agree with you that communication is the way to go, but like I mentioned before, he doesn't talk... And when he does, he changes his mind, goes back and forth and is very unstable... That is making me spend a lot of energy. I tried to explain to him that he will have this problem with many people if he doesn't get his act together... Once again, I was right.<P>I just don't know what to do anymore to make him realize that I am drained out.... I keep wondering how many more tears I'll have to shed after how many other changes he'll want to do with his life. I just feel that sometimes, you just have to dive into things. Especially after this much time has been invested.<P>I'll see. Time might tell.<P>Thanks again! <P>Y<P><BR>

Hey Yellow,<BR>I found your situation interesting since my own has been and is following a similar path. I have been with my boyfriend for 10 years now. I don't have any advice to give you. The marriage issue has been between the two of us for the past 5 years. Like you, I have made some mistakes in the form of indescretions with the opposite sex and still we keep coming back together like yo-yo's. Just last week, I told him I was finally done. I just wasn't fulfilled and was tired of wanting something I couldn't have. His answer to my repeated requests for a commitment went something like this, "I want to marry you someday. Just not right now." Well someday, still hasn't come along and yet he says he still wants to marry me. I have 4 sons (I have always HAD four sons and always WILL have 4 sons) and he says he just doesn't think he could live with four kids. I'm not convinced that he could live with anyone. I have met another man 1500miles away (an internet romance, of course) which I have now lost contact with because of my decision to give my boyfriend's most recent "proposal" a serious consideration. Here I am wearing an engagement ring with no date set. I don't know how long one should wait. I don't even know if this is what I want now that I have it. I am in counseling and on anti-depressants because of this relationship and the circumstances I find myself in. I wish I could tell you what to do in your situation. If you find the strength to move on without him, I would say do it, because in my experience the situation will continue as it has as long as you allow it.<P>Just want you to know that you're not the only one out there dealing with this kind of stuff and I know it makes me feel better to know that others struggle with it as well.<P>God Bless<P>Ochre21<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Yellow:<BR><B>Thanks Lucks,<P>It helps me to know that someone else went through almost the same situation. I can't really say I am having an affair though... It was more like a one night stand, almost one year ago... And I haven't even kept contact with this other guy. I told him I didn't want this to happen again, and we just simply never spoke or wrote back. <P>I do know that I would prefer staying with my boyfriend. And I told him that SOOOOOOOOO many times even before and after anything happened. The thing is that I don't know if the reason to not getting married and having kids is because he is not ready. He is known for saying one thing and doing another. Which is why I mostly mention misleading than anything else. <P>We had an argument a couple of days ago... He has been looking to change jobs for the past 6 months, but hasn't sent out his CV anywhere (see what I mean?). All of a sudden, he decides to write to his friend, who lives 2 hours away, because his friend's company just posted 12 new positions... What does that tell me? <P>I can't change jobs right now and I did mention that to him. He said he could commute, but I really don't think that he thgought this one out too much... I just couldn't beleive that after all we have been through this past year that he would even think of something like this.<P>Anyway, leaving many many details out, I basically ended up telling him that I thought I had done all I can for now and that if anything was going to happen for us, that it was up to him to clear his mind up with what he wanted. Because no matter how much I want things to happen, it won't make US want them.<P>Like usual, I'm was right and he doesn't want us to split up because he wants to grow old with me...<P>I agree with you that communication is the way to go, but like I mentioned before, he doesn't talk... And when he does, he changes his mind, goes back and forth and is very unstable... That is making me spend a lot of energy. I tried to explain to him that he will have this problem with many people if he doesn't get his act together... Once again, I was right.<P>I just don't know what to do anymore to make him realize that I am drained out.... I keep wondering how many more tears I'll have to shed after how many other changes he'll want to do with his life. I just feel that sometimes, you just have to dive into things. Especially after this much time has been invested.<P>I'll see. Time might tell.<P>Thanks again! <P>Y<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Hi Ochre221,<P>I got the "Just not right now" answer as well. Don't know about you, but it just makes me feel like an accessory to his life. He just needs to take me out of the closet when he needs me and put me back when he is finished. <P>I think that if your boyfriend had real feelings for you, he would accept the kids because they are a part of you, but that's only my opinion. It could just be an excuse to avoid finding out the real reason to why he doesn't want to get married.<P>To tell you the truth though, one of my boyfriend's friends just got engaged in May. He has only been going out with his girlfriend for 3 months. I think he is afraid to be alone for the rest of his life, so he took the first girl he could. I wouldn't want to have that kind of a wedding. <P>I think that my boyfriend does loves me because he has stayed with me even though I fumbled. Which is good, but I still don't think that he has the right to mislead me like he has, still does and probably will again. I have told him this many many many times, and I guess now he knows there is a possibility I might leave if I am not happy.<P>Do you think the fact that you mention you "lost" contact with this other man means something to you? You didn't just stop contacting him, you really "lost" the contact?<P>I think it is unfortunate you are on antidepressants. That is one thing I would not let into my body. Not for a man anyway. I am thinking of counseling though, to see if maybe a "professional" third party could open my eyes to something I haven't thought of.<P>It is so true when you say... "the situation will continue as it has as long as you allow it....". I once told him that I might leave, he stopped me and said: "no, I don't want you to go anywhere". I told him: " I don't think you're the one who will be making that decision". The thing is, before you get to that point, there have to be major discussions. <P>I do think we are on the right track for now, but once again, I could just be mislead.<P>Y<BR>