My oldest daughter told me today that she has lost respect for me because I want my H to come back. I told her that she couldn't really understand unless she was in my position, but she thinks infidelity is unforgivable. Daughter #2 has said previously that if her father were ever to return, she would never visit me again. Our son has said that if his father were to come back, he would forgive him and welcome him with open arms, and the younger girls want him back as well.<P>In addition to the pain, now I feel like I am in the middle. Unless I act like I don't ever want to see him again, I lose the respect of my older kids, but my younger ones still love him. Apparently there can be no hope of ever having a whole family again.<P>I wish I could just go to sleep for the next month. Today is my birthday, and I have no desire to celebrate it, or Thanksgiving or Christmas.<P>

Nellie,<BR>So sorry to hear about your situation. My kids don't understand I don't think about my situation either. Everytime I say I can't do something my daughter(12 yo) calls or says she will call mom to do it.<P>I bought Pilsbury cookie dough to make Christmas cookies and my daughter is complaining about it. I don't have the time or ability(?) to make a bunch of differnt cookies. I was waiting to hear her say mom will make them but she didn't so maybe she is understanding.<P>I ask if she understood why I didn't want her mother back in the house and she said yes and was correct, so maybe I do have hope that I won't encounter too many problems.<P>Have you had a heart to heart talk with your older kids about how important it is to have a two parent household if possible ? I know it is hard for anyone else to accept the fact that we want the wondering spouse back, but we do or I did.<P>Hang in there!!<P>God Bless

First of all Happy Birthday to you. I know just how you are feeling. I do not wish to celebrate any holidays either. It's been 4 months since my husband left after 25 yrs and he is seeing my ex-friend.They are with each other all the time except for sleeping,she has a 15&13 yr old she must come home to. My kids 18 daughter 20 son-dont have much respect left for their dad either especially since he is with a neighbor that we always had been friends with for at least 6 years. I would take him back but I do not think my children would agree at all.They do not understand until they are in the position we are in. At least your H wants to come back. My H is very happy with his on going affair and this girlfriend lives only 5 door away from me. I see her come and go all the time and of course I know where she is.My H has an apt about 10 minutes away. I do not know how old your older kids are but you need to do what's in your heart. I think the kids will come around in time. Good Luck and let's try to enjoy some of the holidays for the kids!

Happy Birthday Nellie,<P>I'm sorry your kid's are not giving you that sense of 'family unity'. I see some cracks inmy family too with the oldest going through bouts of anger...<P>Prayers... prayers... and more prayers... <P>Jim

RWD,<BR>Yes, I have talked to them about the importance of a two parent family. They say that having a parent who is an adulterer is worse than no parent at all, that he would be less than useless as a role model, even if he were to become repentent. <BR>May,<BR>Thanks. My oldest kids are 19 and 17. Unfortunately, my H has no interest in coming back. My kids are upset that I even want him back.<BR>NSR,<BR>Thanks. My older kids do not understand why the younger ones are willing to accept gifts from the OW, and why they are willing to have anything to do with her or him.<BR>

Nellie, I know that yesterday could not have been the happiest birthday for you, but i hope that this year will bring you some sense of inner peace.<P>I wish that your and my Hs understood how they have torn the family units apart. No matter what we want now, it will never be the ideal and I think you have to let your older children know that they have no right to judge your emotions, especially as whether or not you are willing to want their father back after all he is their father and your husband, not another person you are introducing who has broken the family apart. Yes, he has done some terrible things, but he is their father and how they interact (or not) with him is their choice but they should not be putting hurdles in your path as to your having to choose between them or H.<BR>It hurts so much to be in the "middle" of all thier emotional angst as well and to 'be there" for them while in emotional turmoil oneself<BR>I wish my kids could at least be as supportive in some respects as yours, but mine are so angry with everything that I could stand on my head and I would still be in the wrong. My H has manipulated them to understand that it was "all my fault" and the kids are trying to buy this as it makes it easier for them to believe in their father, despite the lies, flaunting OW to them despite their feelings etc.<BR>I truly at this point should not visit this board because there is nothing left to rebuild even if H was the last man on earth. Since separation he has hurt our children (never mind about me...I am an adult) so much through his actions and still continues to do so and I have to pick up the pieces thsat my resentment knows no bounds at this point. I am fighting through my lawyer to get him to support his kids properly, but he lies about his assets and income as well, delaying everything so that I just continue to pay and pay and pay. Sorry to vent on your post. <BR> I wish I could sometimes use my logic to quell my emotional pain, but it does not work this way unfortunately.<BR>A desert island would be wonderful right now.<P>------------------<BR>

I too have problems with our daughters. They are only 7 & 9 but do understand. Everyone just assumes that I have put that "bull" in their minds. They have expressed their "hate" for their father which really hurts me. I want them to love him and respect him but I can see why they don't. My 9 year old understands what an affair is and she is totally embarrassed by her dads actions. These are her feelings and no one is going to change them. I allow her to have and express her feelings, but not in front of her sister. She also is aware that I have my feelings and we have learned to respect each other and not try to tell the other person they are wrong. She knows I would love to try to work it out with my H but she wants him back only if he came back like he used to be. But my H has no intentions of coming back and it has "killed" all of us inside. It has been months and we are still suffering. I always thought that he would wake up, but no go. I still ask myself WHY. What did I do? How can he just walk away from all of this? What craziness and pain an affair can cause. It is a pain that I will never forget.<BR>

willbok,<P>Go ahead and vent all you want. I am so sorry that your H is trying to hurt you financially as well. So far my H is at least paying child support. <P>I understand the resentment, and sometimes I feel like that as well. I am grateful that my children don't blame me, although it hurts when the little ones seem to like the OW. <P>Shortly after my H left, I happened to be standing next to a woman who was complaining about her estranged husband, who apparently hadn't responded to some legal thing she had filed. The rage evident in her demeanor frightened me - mostly at the thought that the divorce process can transform someone who likely was reasonably normal into someone who is consumed by hate, and the fear that that was going to happen to me.

Nellie,<P>Celebrate your SANITY today -at least you still have that. happy Birthday!!!<P>Too bad about your kids. My H and I have 6. 4 know - they live here and the 2 that live out of state don't know anything. The 4 here are taking it this way: They are disappointed and hurt, but trying to see this as something between me and H. Actually, they really see this as something between H and HIMSELF! MLC and all that jazz!!<P>I do not talk bad about my H to them, BUT i have raged some and cried some in front of them. Just couldn't help myself. I discussed this with my counselor and told him I felt bad doing this and he agreed I should not do this in front of kids. Mine are older 18 - 27. They know what is going on. They are feeling really BAD for me. But, I encourage them to feel this way: do not approve of what Dad is doing, but do love him anyway. Everybody commits sins and when they are repentant, need to be forgiven and loved for their humanness. Even if my H never comes back, knowing his nature - in time he WILL be sorry for having done things THIS way.<P>Try to help your kids understand that YOU are willing to forgive. That does not make you a doormat, it makes you a person who understands humanness. Remind your kids that someday they may do something they are ashamded of, and you would not turn your back on them either. This is so hard - kids are kids, afterall.<P>I am sorry your family is suffering. I pray for your older children to understand and be able to let forgiveness in their hearts.<P>Thinking of you, today...<P>Roll Me Away

It's so hard because of the kids, isn't it? Although, right now, I don't know what I'd do w/out her!!<P>I agree. Talk some w/ your older kids. They're gonna feel the way they're gonna feel, but at least they'll have your pov.<P>You've been really good and strong. Hang in there.<P>Lori

Mental,<BR>My younger kids still love their father, but I doubt very much if they respect him. I agree that the betrayer does "kill" an important part of the people he leaves behind.<BR>Roll Me Away,<BR>I don't know if I would ever be able to convince my older children that my H's behavior is a result of anything but a character flaw. It certainly didn't help when tried to convince our oldest daughter that he was doing the right thing by leaving, by "putting the past behind him".<BR>Lori,<BR>I try to talk to the older kids, but I have no hope of changing their minds. My H may have been right when he said, shortly after he left and before discovery, that he thought he had "messed up his life so badly it could never be fixed".

Nellie:<P>When my parents were in the middle of a bitter divorce and their own personal WWIII, a wise woman told me not to carry my parents pain. My parents' marriage was none of my business - my business was to be a teenager and have fun with my friends and focus on school. It wasn't my relationship to fix. It was their bad marriage - their fight - their problem, not mine. <P>It was the best advice I ever received. <P>Hope this helps.

KarmaGrrl,<BR>It is not their marriage, but it is their family that has been destroyed. How can they focus on school when their father has threatened to stop paying for any of it if I don't do what he wants? How can they be happy when they worry that he will stop loving them too if they antagonize him? After all, he refused to give one daughter anything for her birthday because she is "disrespectful". How can they be happy when they beg their father to see them more often and in response he cuts back on visitation? How can they focus on anything when if one of the little ones has a temper tantrum in front of the OW he decides that she is likely emotionally disturbed, when temper tantrums didn't phase him much previously? How can they ignore that fact that their father has disappeared and been replaced by an alien who puts them last and whose child-rearing philosophy bears little resemblance to that of the father they have known all their lives?<p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited November 26, 1999).]

Nellie,<P>Did you ever get that book, "100 and some ways to help a kid get thru divorce" or something like that? I forget what it's title was exactly. Sorry.<P>Would your H withhold a birthday gift to a "disrespectful" child when you were married? Sure, it was a crummy thing to do but is it directly related to his MLC/OW? Did he ever put coal in their stocking? <P>Sure, it's their father and their family that's been torn apart and that's a horrible thing for them. <P>In my opinion, I wouldn't tell the children any more details than what you would tell an acqaintance in line at the grocery store. <P>Maybe your baby is emotionally disturbed. Maybe there was something about this particular tantrum that was out of the ordinary. When my parents divorced I was absolutely emotionally disturbed - and I threw a tantrum - but I didn't have the excuse of being a little child, I was 17. <P>My dad & mom did the "threatening not to pay for college" thing to me too. So I quit. I moved away to another state with $40 in my pocket. I was a wreck but I found my healing place and now I'm not perfect - who is? - but I'm so much better now. <P>My relationship with my dad is the pits. But it's not just the divorce that caused it to fall apart - that was just one piece of the picture. <P>So whether or not you and he reunite - their relationship with their dad may not ever be "perfect" - it's just one part of the picture. And their relationship with him is not any of your business - it's between them and him. You didn't break it and you can't fix it - you can only love them and nurture your relationship with them. <P>I'm sorry honey...I really am.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by KarmaGrrl (edited November 26, 1999).]