Hi,

Blues and BBQ sounds good.

I am not doing very well lately.

Shul,

Sorry to hear that. I know it's hard to hear sometimes, but James 1:2-8

T

Tony,

Memphis, huh? That sounds like fun. My YS has always wanted to go to TN. Let us know how it goes. Take care & have a good weekend.

Well,

The home has shown 3x, there is some interest, but no offers yet. I decided to list the home for 60 days, if it sold, then it was meant to be, otherwise, I will stay and refinance to pay off XW and the debt, leaving only a mortgage. (I know, how un-American to only have a mortgage and no other debt.)

I'm going tonight to look at some homes as well. In neighborhoods with younger families instead of the retirement set where I currently live.

My dog died on what would have been my 9th wedding anniversary. He was a wedding present from XW's older brothers.

This week is another week of on call, so please pray for peace.

Memphis was good, and last weekend YD and I went to a cancer support group weekend. I went as a survivor and met many people who were still fighting the fight.

FWIW, my divorce was and still is far more difficult than the cancer ever was.

Thanks,

T

I'm having a rough night tonight. I sure could use some guidance from God. Some peace, some plan, something that would tell me how to proceed.

I would really like him to either take the desire from me to restore my marriage, or for him to show me what I am supposed to do with that desire.

I feel and know that the divorce was not right.

I know that I made mistakes, I wasn't loving like I should have been, wasn't the spirtual leader I should have been, that I was selfish. There are probably more things that I'm not even aware of.

I've taken this to God over and over again. No peace. Is it I don't trust Him? Or am I still missing something? If there are scales over my eyes, then why doesn't God remove them when I ask to see the truth.

If his plan is for us to go our seperate ways, then why doesn't he give me peace when I ponder that scenario? What is God trying to do by not taking this away when I ask for him to take my troubles, my concerns, or to show me, to teach me the solutions.

I just feel hurt and lonely. I can't get past the pain to do the learning. Or I should say I haven't found out how to do this yet.

Am I holding on to a dream that isn't real? Why does my desire for a Christ centered marriage with my first wife not die like the marriage did?

What is keeping this desire alive?

Is it God?

Is it Satan trying to use my hurt against me?

How can I tell the difference?

God can't force her or me to do anything, but God could make the path he wants me to take more clear to me.

I have a 1am call, so I hope I can get a nap in for the next 2-3 hours.

I am so weary from NOT hearing from God. I keep reading scripture, but it doesn't tell me what to do. Or I don't understand.

A week or so ago, Jeremiah 3 came to me. I don't know if it was inspired by God or just a thought in my head. It's so confusing because it talks about not re-marrying your ex-wife if she divorces her new husband or he dies. It talks about God giving Israel her certificate of divorce and then it talks about how God seeks reconciliation.

What is the message, do I not re-marry my ex-wife, or do I seek reconciliation?

I don't have to worry about the first decision I guess, I don't have a chance to re-marry her today.

If the message is to seek reconcilation, the question is HOW?

God, I really need some more details here. I don't understand what your word is telling me, and could use some clarification.

T

Tony, God doesn't "micromanage" your life as a Christian. He has already given you the commands, principles, and indwelling Spirit for guidance. Apply them or don't apply them, the CHOICE is yours.

You are afraid to "let go, and let God," or so it strongly appears. YOU want to remove yourself from having to "make a choice" by demanding that God "tell you" what to do so you don't have to take the responsibility for the choices you make. So you continue to dwell in the land of worries and insecurity....all because you are afraid.

God HAS brought many "answers" into your life and into your awareness. You generally reject them and anyone who isn't falling for the "pity party" approach. Tony, you are a grown MAN, not a child. As a man you should already KNOW that you can't "have everything you may want." Some things are "beyond your reach, your control," or just plain bad for you if you were to get your "desires." Some consequences of past mistakes continue to hurt for a long time. God knows that and promises to "BE THERE" for you, not to "make the pain go away." He promises to use the events of our life to "work for good" in our lives as we move into the future.

Your wife does not "appear" to be Christian in anything other than her own delusion. WHY would you expect a nonbeliever to do anything that God commands? WHY would you expect God to act to "give you" a nonbeliever as a covenantal spouse with both you and Him?

Why do you continue to not simply rest in the present and let God take care of whatever possible future events there might be? Lack of trust in God? Or just the simple fact that you continue to struggle with (or refuse to make) making God LORD in you life? Afraid of losing "control?"

Many things you need to think about before getting an answer to "why won't God tell me what to do."

"Surrender," Tony, entails more than just accepting God's gift of salvation in Jesus Christ. It also entails surrendering our lives, totally, to God who IS sovereign (and relinquishing our selfish hold on "being sovereign ourselves"). This harkens back to the lie that Satan told Eve that got all this "selfishness and 'Me First'" thinking going. We ARE created in God's image. The fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil DID "open our eyes" making us "like God" Himself, KNOWING what evil is and that evil DOES exist (as founded in PRIDE and SELFISHNESS).

It also showed us that God CANNOT abide with evil and that evil causes an eternal separation from God, with the ONLY bridge over that chasm being Jesus Christ himself. Having accept Jesus Christ, will a Christian continue to attempt to hold onto "self-determination" even if there "choice" of the moment is NOT in accord with God's will? Or does a Christian willingly CHOOSE to surrender "his rights" to God?

Think about it Tony. The CHOICE will always be yours, not forced on you or "micromanaged" from you by God. "CHOOSE ye this day whom you will serve, but as for me and my house, we will SERVE the LORD." God IS the sovereign LORD, and we are "bought and paid for" by Christ. He has the right to tell us what to do, not the reverse.

The Master has spoken. He is NOT required to give explanation or tell you WHY He has commanded. It is merely our responsibility to DO and to trust HIM because He IS LORD, Savior, and the only one who is truly "Good."

Time to release yourself from your self-inflicted torment, don't you think?

FH,

I hesitate to answer because I don't want to be beaten up again.

Let's start with what is plain to me. I made many mistakes on my path here.

There is still a path ahead of me that I must travel.

Scripture gives a guideline for what to do, it doesn't micromanage. It doesn't say, Tony sell your house, or stay where you are. It doesn't say, wait for your wife, I can see that she will return to God and repent. It doesn't say date other Christian women. It doesn't say DON'T date christian women.

So what is wrong about asking God what should I do?

What is wrong about asking God if he means for me to meditate on Jeremiah 3?

What is wrong about asking God what it is He's trying to tell me in the scripture?

Since I made mistakes before, I'm asking God to crystal clear with me, so that I know I'm doing what He wills me to do.

We are promised peace, so what is wrong for asking God to make good on that promise?

What is wrong with asking God what I have to do to make good on that promise?

I'm pretty sure God would know just what to say so that I can understand Him.

God is not a God of confusion, but I'm a confused man.

So what is wrong with asking God for some clarification?

FH, can you answer this without blaming me, but simply showing me the way? Without tacitly calling me childish, but just giving instruction?

Does God just want me to rest in the present? Doesn't He have a plan for me?

I can apply the commands and principles, but I uncertain if what I hear is the indwelling spirit, or just my own desires.

So before I let go, I want to be 100% certain that I'm letting go to God and not to myself or Satan.

Of course I have worries and insecurity, look at how I botched up things before now. I can't do this in my own strength.

Sometimes you seem such a contradiction, you tell me to surrender, so when I surrender and ask God, you then accuse me of avoiding responsiblity.

You tell me I have many answers, but when I tell you I can't be certain they are from God, demonstrate how diferent answers here are contradictory, you say I'm rejecting them.

You then start with the DJ about how I should know I can't have everything I want.

When I say I'm having a hard time because of the pain I feel, and I simply want to claim the promise of peace, you tell me I'm wrong for that.

I'm convinced that you are NOT speaking for God, or speaking God's word. Why? There would not be such confusion or DJ's in what you write.

It's not my place to judge your motives or reasons. I do suggest this. If you are speaking God's word, ask Him to make it more clear. God is not about confusion. So let's ask God to either open my ears or for your words to be more clear and less disrespectful.

T

Fair enough. Consider it done. So in return let me ask you, in the spirit of eliminating potential areas of confusion, what you do establish being necessary for YOU to
to be 100% certain that I'm letting go to God and not to myself or Satan?



Nothing. It is what one would expect a Christian to ask of God.




All of Scripture is good to meditate upon. Anything particular about Jeremiah 3? Perhaps the lament about not taking back an adulterous wife?

Tony, if that IS what you are "meditating" about, then consider this...there is ONLY one "unforgiveable sin, and it is NOT adultery.



Not a thing "wrong" with it. In fact, it's quite good.



Crystal Clear = God wants you to be Christ's representative, to be "Christ-like" in your decisions and interactions. You "chafe" because I don't always say what you want to hear or say it the way you want it said. Consider this, Tony, Christ did not "mince words" when he cleared the temple. Righteous "anger" results in loving confrontation that is not always "well received." But it is necessary to stand for Christ and to get others to start thinking about what they have been doing and whether or not it is in concert with God's will and "Christ-like" in nature, submission, and obedience.



Again, nothing wrong with asking. Just don't let yourself get over into the area of "presuming upon God." God's peace is not always the freedom from pain and anguish. It has a lot more to do with "abiding in Christ."



Nothing. You ARE asking and God IS answering. It may take you a little while to "open the door," but God is patient.



He does. He also knows when you will be ready to hear Him. Remember, it is the Lord's timing, not ours.


[/quote]God is not a God of confusion, but I'm a confused man.

So what is wrong with asking God for some clarification?[/quote]

Not a thing. It's actually a very good thing to do when faced with challenges.



Hmmmm....I don't know. I've tried before with no success, so I'm not sure if I should invest more time. I may try a little more, but you've pretty much already made it clear that you don't think I "speak" for God, so I keep asking myself "what's the use in spending more time trying to help someone who never seems to accept or understand any offered help?" You see, this perception of "disrespectful judgments" cuts both ways. I'm convinced that you are NOT speaking for God, or speaking God's word. Why? There would not be such confusion or DJ's in what you write.



Yes, and Yes.

Hebrews 3:7 - 4:16

Ecclesiastes 8:4-8



When uncertain, search the Scriptures. God will NOT tell you to do something that violates His commands or His teaching.


Tony, I understand what you are trying to say when you say, "Sometimes you seem such a contradiction, you tell me to surrender, so when I surrender and ask God, you then accuse me of avoiding responsiblity."

We are human. We prefer answers NOW! We have a hard time accepting that evil exists in the world and that we are going to feel it's impact in our lives, sometimes because of our own disobedience and sometimes merely because we ARE Christians. Learning to walk closer with God is what the process of Sanctification is all about. So is forgiveness, because we will continue to make mistakes. We might not always understand (won't understand many times) WHY God has allowed something to occur, but God IS always in control. God can use all things that DO occur to work for good in our lives and help us along the path of Sanctification.

God bless.

Forever Hers,
I am amazed that this thread is 17 pages long when page 1 to page 17 is all about the same. In essence 50% of the population is divorced but for some reason Confused thinks his case is special enough for God to reveal everything to him. Every answer, every reason. I don't get why you spend so much time and energy with the long posts. The only thing I can think of to say is the first sentence of the Purpose Driven Life- It's not about me (and it's not about him).
There are people who have lost much- I have never met in my whole life anyone in person who was married and their husband had an affair that resulted in a child. My husband did that to me. There are people on the board, but never anyone face to face. There are also people that have dealt with the loss of babies, even triplets, people who have been severely abused, unimaginable pain. Everyone goes through SOMETHING in life. Something that maybe they alone have to deal with. That no one else can be there to completely understand. I think God may do that on purpose. You know why? Because then only He can comfort you.
But you have to have the faith.

I'm amazed too. But I'm also willing to hope that God is big enough and patient enough to put up with his questioning until he finally sticks his fingers into the nail prints and simply ACCEPTS all that God offers without having to personally experience everything or have God do it "my way" instead of "God's way."



Jesus HAD the ability to do, or prevent, many things that he allowed to occur so that "greater good" could come as a result. Lazarus is but one example. Lazarus did NOT have to die to "prove" that Jesus was God and was the Messiah and HAS the ability to raise us from the dead. Jesus "put up with" the implicit accusation against him when he was told that Lazarus would not have died IF Jesus had (cared enough) to be there when Lazarus will sick.

Sometimes our stubborn minds need to be dealt with by perseverence rather than passing by the Samaritan.

But understand, too, there is a limit to even that perservernce when the recipient claims to "know Christ" yet continues to prefer "milk over meat."

Even Christ, in Revelations, indicates his displeasure with "lukewarm" believers.

So we all wait on God and HIS timing, not our own timing.

God bless.

Forever,
I don't know how anything I said is relative to anything you said. I guess I didn't make my point very clear. I don't understand what you are saying. You are saying God's timing, but you are trying to help Confused with pages of advice and scripture. In my opinion, confused is confused because he is spending too much time listening to man and not enough time listening to God. It has to be noisy in his head. I am wondering when he is going to stop and be still and quiet and just listen to His creator. Even if it ends up being dead silent.

I apologize for not getting it as fast as some of you.

I apologize for taking the whole idea of a personal relationship with God to a level many folks don't agree with.

Maybe you are trying to help with the criticism. It's not helping. I need steps to take, not critiques of what I've already done.

I know that what I've done hasn't worked. So you can spend time saying "You are wrong T" or you can say, have you tried this, it worked for me.

What have I tried.

Praying for change in my heart.
Asking to hear clearly the holy spirit.
Asking for forgiveness.
Asking God to point out to me any sin I'm not aware of.
Asking God to show me where He's trying to meet me.
Reading scripture.
Counselling with my pastor.
Therapy.
Counselling with Steve Harley.
Asking ex-wife what I did wrong.

I've tried drawing closer to God. I've asked if there is anything that is keeping Him from me.

I've even prayed to accept Christ again because the only reasons I could think that God wouldn't answer are because of sin and He doesn't know me.

I know some of you may find it difficult to understand that I want to hear from God and to know that it is Him. Please understand, God is big enough to talk to every human ever created simultaneously if he chooses to do so. God had a personal relationship with man in the garden, and spoke to people taking the form of Christ.

I don't think I'm someone special, that God should only speak to me. I would hope that everyone would ask God to speak to them, instead of listening to what the world has to say.

My ex-wife says that God said it's ok for her to have her affair and divorce. We know God didn't say that, so what person, claiming to speak for God, told her this?

Do you understand why I would like to hear from God and know that it is Him speaking?

Pardon me for being weak right now and wanting something I can hold onto. Yes, I feel I need to touch the scars. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I understand there is sin and evil in the world, and there is God in heaven who can stop it all.

I understand there is pain and suffering in the world, and there is a God in heaven who can comfort the aflicted.

I understand there is grief and sadness in the world, and there is a God in heaven who can love and hold the fallen.

It's not just me. My heart breaks when I hear about anyone's broken marriage, about cheating spouses, or abusive spouses. It tears me up that families everyday are torn apart by abuse, infidelity, neglect, even sickness and death.

You are right, it's not about me, it's about all of us. I'm just one of many who is in pain and suffering. I'm just one of many who cannot see or experience or grasp what God is doing right now.

I'm not being selfish, I'm being obvious. For every one of us who asks these questions, there are probably thousands of others who don't voice such questions.

However, what I did learn a couple of days ago is this.


I can connect with the Psalmist here, except that I don't sense I'm being held in the right hand of God.

So perhaps, I simply need to look for it, instead of complaining I don't see it.

I just don't always know where to look.

T

Tony,


Whose words are these? They are God's right? God is speaking to you, yet you still don't believe Him.

.

What do you trust more God's word or your senses? Believe Him and know He is holding your right hand.

Blessings to you.

S&C

S&C, honestly, I don't trust either right now. That's why I ask for Him to be obvious.

That's as radically honest as I can be.

If I trusted myself, I wouldn't need God and if I trusted God I wouldn't have any questions.

T

I am not sure if you are talking to me, but if you are, I never said I got it any faster than you, and I wasnt trying to criticize you. Actually in my other post on after divorce, I said I was talking to myself as much as to you.
Also to clarify, you ARE someone special- but everyone is. Every life matters.
What I meant was, to think God is going to just speak to you audibly because you want Him to is going to make you crazy forever. Or even if you think He should - because he can- answer your questions- usually we suffer as a test of faith. Our pastor is hilarious (www.fosteringhope.com) and he just did a message Sunday on why do nasty things happen to nice people (I kind of wish he would do one, on why do nice things happen to nasty people - haha). But the reality is, as good as his message was, and it was- check it out on his site if you get a chance and want to- he still didn't come up with an answer that I think you would really be satisfied with. I think about things that are said or done that seem like cruel and unusual punishment- for instance, my ex was not ready to have kids and I was. Yet he ended up getting his OW pregnant. And she left her first kid to be with my Ex, before she even got pregnant. So she ditches one kid, then gets another. I want a kid, and I don't have one. Then my 2 best friends get pregnant, and the 6 of us (my 2 best friends and their spouses and ex and I) have been friends and done things together for years. Seems cruel that 5 of them would be having babies doesn't it. Then they all had girls - so when I look at my friends girls, if I think too hard, I feel like I should have a daughter there too . My ex named his child Haley. No one has ever been close to me named Haley. Then my best friend's sister names her child Haley and my brother's best friend is about to have a child named Haley Lynn (my middle name is Lynn) - due Aug. 22 and ex's daughter was born Aug. 20. All of this seems like things that God could protect me from, that adds fuel to the fire, that is exceedingly painful to me. It isn't fair, it isn't fun, it is pure hell. If I think too much about it I can bring myself into straight depression. But I can't do that. Otherwise I am going to be coo coo. Instead I have to focus on what I do have. I guess my point is, More than likely, your whys will never be answered on this side. Your hows will never be answered. And life is short compared to eternity. So if today matters, why not live it? And Jesus did promise- in this world, you will have trouble. And Jesus had people spit on him all the time -he does know how you feel at least.

T,


If that is the case, then I doubt that even if you heard God's voice you would question if it was God or Satan.

Having said that, I don't know why you continue to come here looking for answers, no one here (me, Standing, FH, adgirl, no one) is ever going to satisfy you.

You are going to have to have a little faith in God. I'm sorry you are where you are, you don't have to be. You need to choose for yourself if God (and His Word) is worth trusting.

S&C

Tony, I have to agree with your concluding statement.

So let's go back to basics and let God speak directly to you, okay?

List your questions that you want God to speak to you about and let's see what God has to say about them.

Fair enough?

Fair enough?

Within the context of following scripture, what does God want me to do with my life? Specifically. I see scripture as the set of general rules that works for all people. However, when you get to specific situations, there may be more than one "right" answer. What does God want me to do? What is He trying to tell me with all of this alone time? Is there more I need to change? If so, what?

Ditto this question with regards to my ex-wife. Am I to wait for her? Is there something I'm supposed to be doing in this regard? If so, what is it?

What about her salvation? Is she really saved? If so, then why can't you reach her? If not, then why does she seem to always get her way? (See the previous Psalm.)

Does God really only want me to spend 3 days out of every 14 with our daughter? If so, then is this permanent or temporary. Is there something I need to do so that I see her more frequently.

What does God want me to do with the time I do spend with our daughter. We do devotionals, attend worship, pray each night. We are building a better relationship, yet I want more.

Finally, if God believes I'm asking the wrong questions, then let Him bring the right questions to my mind.

T

From my pastor's weekly rave:
10 Courageous Choices

All of us are faced with times of adversity and stress. It is what we do when
we feel threatened or treated unfairly that makes all the difference. When
you're hurt, hurried, harried, or hacked off, here are 10 courageous choices
that can transform a troubled time into a breakthrough
best-thing-to-ever-happen-to-you-moment.

When I'm faced with adversity . . .

1. I will choose to let this make me better not bitter. I will guard my
attitude at all times.
2. I will stay open to what God might be teaching and I will resist the
temptation to close up and close everyone out.
3. I will localize the events to this moment, these people and these
circumstances not universalize the experience for all times and all people.
4. I will learn something new and valuable, not recycle old assumptions.
5. I will be honest to God, not perpetually hacked off.
6. I will feel my feelings, not deny them.
7. I will wait to see what God might be up to, not take over.
8. I will keep moving not sit, soak, sour, and stew over what might have been.
9. I will not lash out at anyone in anger or the need to get even. I am better
than that. I hold myself to a higher standard.
10. I will ask good people for their advice and perspectives on my situation.

My "cool quote" of the week.

"God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts
in our pains: it is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world."
-- C. S. Lewis

Hi CEH,

Jaye Mathison called me your cutman... I thought that was funny. (I do think you and FH go back and forth in a way I would detest if it were me).

Anyway, I have caught up on all the pages since my last post, and I can hear your mind whirling over and over the same pegs. I don't happen to believe that more information (however divinely inspired it might be) will help you move off this place. Instead, I think you have to choose to go down a completely different mental road. Occupy your mind with other thoughts so there isn't room for these rather obsessive questions to fester.

With that in mind, I wonder what would happen if you began to ask yourself a different question entirely. What if you assume that (for whatever strange and unfathomable reason) this is where God would have you for the moment. Obviously he DOES have you here, so it may not be such a stretch.

Instead of anguishing over the why (or the "how do I get out") sorts of questions, you simply chose to live in the moment. And asked (in every moment) "Am I pleasing you RIGHT NOW, Lord."

If we fill our minds with today and with this moment, there is little room for anguish over possible mistakes or missteps or misfortunes. Instead, you are talking to him about things like "I have only 3 days with my daughter this month. Today is one. Please show me how to minister to my daughter today and love her in the best way possible."

Maybe you are already doing this somewhat, CEH, and I don't mean to imply that you aren't trying to please him in a given moment. I only suspect that you could fill your mind with thoughts such as these, and in those moments, He could bring you peace.

What if you start to feel crappy? You could go down the old familiar road of replaying questions and possibilities and puzzle over God's will for you. OR... you could choose to ask God how you might serve him and please him in this very moment.

I do not think it is healthy or HELPFUL for you to suffer through these repetitive thoughts. Instead, focus on what you can do right now. Maybe you can't think of a single God-honoring thing to do, so you just sit quietly in prayer... for your wife, for your daughter, for yourself, etc.

There is nothing wrong with questioning. Only you do seem to be stuck. And seeing as I think you are a man of action, you must DO something to be set free. But they are in much smaller steps than it seems, and it is about pushing these obsessive thoughts out of your mind.

JMHO.

Blessings