When my H and I first were together we couldn't keep our hands off each other. Then after some years there came a time when I wanted him more than he wanted me.<P>I found this passage very meaningful: But if he is content to go month after month (well, for us it was weeks) without sex, then something is wrong. If there is no physical problem hindering him, maybe he's having deep feelings of failure, disappointment, depression, or hopelessness.<P>He was. And his temporary solution was another woman who is very sought after. She was a form of self-medication.<P>At this point, my H wants to move home, but his reasons don't seem sound to me. (our 6th separation, remember). And sex has been great between us these last couple of weeks and overall pretty good since last year this time. I do wonder about the advisibility of our having sex when we're separated but I have used this verse to support this decision.<P>1Corinthians "The wife does not have authority over her own body but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body but the wife does. Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."<P>His life this past year and a half has not shown much self-control.<P>I pray for wisdom in this area, especially as it relates to separation. I pray God will remove sexual temptation from my Husband's sight (keep interactions with the co-worker OW away). I pray for my husband's self-control and that he will desire only me.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)<P>

Lor<BR>That is a good prayer thought! " I pray for my husband's self-control and that he will desire only me." I am going to add it to my list because that is one of my fears. My H's OW is a coworker also and she gets to see him every day and I am lucky if I get to see him once a week right now. I pray that both of our H's have the strength to resist temptation and find that they only desire us, their wives. As far as sex during seperation I think the bible verse gives you some of your answer... if he wasn't getting it from you he could be tempted elsewhere. <P>------------------<BR>morgan

Hi Morgan, I am so glad you've joined the group!<P>Have a good Sunday,<P>Liz/Pearl<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Just finished this chapter this morning. My response to it is different I guess since I had felt alot of guilt for failing my H in this regard. I brought alot of baggage into our marriage with a history of sexual abuse. The OW heard about my hangups from my H and took it to the bank. In my quest to "know all the gory detail" I found out they did it all and then some. Now to my point and prayer. Stormie says, "its never to late to pray for sexual purity, no matter what has occurred in either of your pasts. Sometimes sexual problems in a marriage happen as a result of sexual experiences before marriage". WOW! My prayer is to be set free and healed from the memories and that purity will take root in my heart and my H's heart. God deliver us from the bondage of past mistakes and bring balance to our sexual relationship. <P>I want so desperately to be all my H ever wants in a woman. I was never able to be that sexually before but I believe with God all things are possible.<P>------------------<BR>eyes wide open<BR>

On page 62 when it speaks of how sex before talking about issues is the best process, I see how bad I've dropped the bucket..<P>Boy do I ALWAYS want things set straight first! BEFORE I give myself to my husband.. I know now that I've been defeating my efforts continuously in this....<P>Really makes me think!!!<P>cozy

Hi. <P>Cozy, I too have always had this backwards...IF he is kind and thoughtful, IF he meets my need for affection, IF he does all his household chores, THEN, I will give myself to him sexually...By turning it around and meeting his need for sex first, our entire relationship is being renewed and revitalized (Not to mention that I am enjoying it as much as he is).<P>It parallels my experience of offering forgiveness before he met my 'conditions'. <BR>The conditions either become less important, or are met when he is feeling warm and affectionate and sexually fulfilled.<P>Lots to think about in this chapter!<P>Liz\|Pearl<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

He used our diminished sex as a reason he was "curious" when this opportunity came up. Ironically, I believe he never had sex with her, but of course even if he didn't it was just a matter of time.<P>He's a morning person, I'm obviously a night owl. He loves to sleep, I see it as just a rest. 3 kids, lack of privacy and different schedules impaired our sex life. I truly do not remember refusing him unless the kids were up and knocking on the door, but of course I could have done better. He could have, too. If he had genuinely reached out to me, I would have responded. Our sex life was infrequent. During the 4 week affair, I remember him being "half baked" and wondering if he should consider Viagra...so I know our sex life wasn't dead...just not vigorous.<P>Since he told me of his dissatisfaction, I went into overdrive happily. Now he has to turn ME down when he is too tired <P>I have really prayed about this and it is working.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I had mixed feelings about the sex during separation, but I see how far we've come since August. He lives out of town, but I truly believe him now when he says there is no one else. He also treats me very affectionately when he visits. Over Thanksgiving he asked to stay with me when the children left. Of course I said yes and thoroughly enjoyed him being there. My mother has been ticked off. All my sister does is try to "fix me up" with friends of her H. He is still my husband, after all. How else can we heal if we aren't together in a way that always was so important before?

Hi ladies!<P>I have a real problem with the chapter "His Sexuality". I will quote different parts of the chapter and then tell you why I have a problem with it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> When we're married, our bodies are not our own. We <I> owe </I> each other physical attention abd we're not to deprive one another. The frequency of sex depends on the <I> other person's </I> needs, not ours alone. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wow! That statement really got me. I grew up with my mother telling me that my body is <B> mine and mine only </B> and if I don't want someone to touch me, it is my right to tell them not to. And I am suppose to <I> owe </I> my husband sex? And just what does he <I> owe </I> me? I know that that's not the right attitude for me to have...but darn it...I need <I> hugging, cuddling, conversation, respect, compromise </I>. Does my husband not <I> owe </I> me these things? How can I make love to him when I don't feel that he treats me with the respect I <B> deserve </B> as his wife? We have children, I am a full time mom..I cook, clean, do laundry, play taxi for the kids, take care of the finances, the list is endless. At the end of the day, when everyone is asleep, I want peace and quiet...I want to relax and have time to myself, when no one is touching me, demanding things from me. And when he comes home from work and is totally disrespectful to me, my attitude is "Why should I give you what you want when you won't give me what I want?" For instance...this week he has been on vacation so he can go deer hunting. All week long he has taken my van hunting..which isn't a problem at all. However, Wednesday night I had an appointment..one that I had made weeks ago, before I even knew he had gotten his vacation approved. THe appointment was to have glamor shots taken as a Christmas present to him. I was excited about it..looking forward to being made up and having my hair done and having a beautiful picture of myself for my husband. When I asked him if he could please have the van back to me early, or take his truck hunting that day, he threw a fit...made me feel guilty for 'screwing up' his vacation time. He demanded to know what was so 'all-fire important' at this appointment. I finally broke down and told him about it. He looked me straight in the eye and told me that it was a waste of money...which made me feel like <B> I </B> am a waste of money. He took my van and proceeded to spend the entire day hunting. That night, he wanted sex. Needless to say, it was not something I wanted to do <B> at all </B> and I didn't...I turned him down. Then I buy this book yesterday and see that I should have had sex with him...because I <I> owe </I> it to him. How confusing is this?<P>And...(I'm sorry if this is too graphic) when it is 'that time' of the month, H still wants to make love to me. ICK! Now, while I think that it's a good thing because he is not 'grossed out' by it, I just <I> can't </I>. I find it to be dirty, and icky. And yet, this chapter is telling me to go ahead and do it because I <I> owe </I> it to him.<P>I prayed last night as I read through this book...especially when I read "His Sexuality". I want to be a good wife...but darn it...the way I am understanding this book is that I am to become some kind of doormat...and that's not at all what I want.<P>I'm sorry this is so long...thanks to all for taking the time to read it.<P>Gabbie

We call it "let's make a mess"....I used to be squeamish as well, now I go along with POGP. I'm going to meet his needs.<P>There's a lot of resentment in your post, Gabbie. TNT once gave me a good talking to about unconditional love and that is how I see this situation. You love and give without expecting to get back. It isn't for the faint-hearted and a lesson I am still learning.<P>Lor

Resentment? Oh yes! And believe me, I have been praying about this. I don't like these feelings inside me, and I am releasing them to God, to let Him show me the way to deal with them. <P>You mention unconditional love...yes, I love my husband unconditionally...but I don't always <I> like </I> him. I am praying about that, as well.<P>Question: If making love during my period makes me feel "squeamish", dirty, unattractive, and just plain nasty, why is it so necessary that I do it? I don't want to go into a whole lot of gross medical history here, but my periods are not 'normal'...very heavy (Oh dear..this is a touchy subject!)...let's just leave it at that. If I had the kinds of periods I had before children and 2 'female' surgeries..then maybe it wouldn't be so bad...but "Let's make a mess" is the understatement of the century in my case.<P>Lor, you seem to be so wise, and willing to accept what is written in the Bible concerning these issues. Can you help me? Can any of you? I need to <I> understand </I> why it is so important to make love even when being touched is the last thing you want. I can't accept that for some reason. If my husband were to ever read in the Bible where it says that a woman should not turn her husband away sexually, he would strap me to the bed naked, the house would never be cleaned, and the kids would be left to raise themselves. <P>This chapter of the book has opened up a million questions for me. I have been raised by my mother to believe that this is <B>my</B> body...and my body is my temple, I should care for it, and protect it. I have a real 'personal space' issue at times. And now, I am reading the Bible and this book, and am being told my God to never turn my husband away sexually, that my body is no longer my own. I'm just so confused about this.<P>Gabbie

For Gabbie, I don't think the scripture reference was given in the book about our bodies belonging to our husbands, so in case you're not familiar with it:<BR>I Cor. 7:3&4 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body but the wife does. (NKJV)<P>I, too, had this backwards for a long time. Then the Lord began speaking to me these verses and told me to minister to my husband with sex. It was difficult for me to comprehend at first, but have since learned to do so. It does indeed minister to him, and to me, not only physically, but emotionally, and spiritually. And by doing this, it has helped us in other areas of our marriage. <BR>I believe these verses are talking about sex, but I also believe it goes beyond just sex. I believe it also refers to the needs we have of affection and companionship.<BR>We are now one flesh, my body belongs to my husband, and his body belongs to me. But sometimes when there are difficulties in a marriage one partner has to go first in ministering to the other, forgiving, loving unconditionally, and standing in prayer for that partner and the marriage.

edited in love for my h<p>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited January 07, 2000).]

Since our reconciliation, this has not been an issue whatsoever! My H has a much increased desire for me since he moved home. During the months preceding our separation, he wasn't very interested. I believe that was mostly due to him being falling down drunk every day. He drank until he passed out almost every day of the week. Kind of hard to have sex when your partner is passed out on the floor, isn't it? There were many nights he never made it inside the house.... he had passed out in the car and I couldn't wake him up, so I left him there. I really don't know how he ever managed to drive home without having an accident or getting arrested for drunk driving. <P>My ex-husband made a comment to me when we were married that has always stuck in my mind: "If you don't want to have sex with me, I'll get it somewhere else", and he sure did (but thats a whole other story). I never turn my husband down; I've made love with him when I was sick with the flu, extremely mad at him, and even when he was drunk. <P>I do pray that he will only have desire for me only, and that God will "take away anyone or anything from our lives that would inspire temptation to infidelity". That is my biggest fear, that he will do it again. I pray this prayer a lot.

Gabbie, it isn't that I am so wise, I have gone over and over the scriptures as they pertain to marriage, including 1 Peter 3: 1-7--the infamous "wives be submissive to your husbands". If you ever get the oppportunity, read this in the Amplified Bible, it truly becomes beautiful.<P>My main prayer partner, who has been praying for my marriage solidly for a year now, told me I should NOT have sex with my H while we were separated. I have prayed and read the marriage verses and prayed some more and I disagree with her, mostly because of what Stormie says in this chapter, this is the conclusion I came to through prayer--long before reading this book.<P>I am married, I'm keep all my vows and commitments. It's also true that my H isn't and God would release me from my marriage BECAUSE OF THE HARDNESS OF MY HEART. I've become convinced I do not want a hard heart. I also think that we need to be sensitive to God's plan in our own life, what he requires of me at this time to mold me into His image may not be what you need. Does that make sense? God is the same always and ever, but just as we as parents don't treat each of kids exactly the same, because they have different needs, that's how I see God with us.<P>As for your H tying you to the bed because it is his right...nope, because he is to be considerate of you and treat you with respect. (1 Peter 3:7) That would not be respect. It's the same as Harley's Policy of Joint Agreement. You both agree.<P>So far I'm not having much luck with POJA at my house. <P>Best,<BR>Lor<BR>

Gabbie, I have had a hard time with this verse as well and mine stems from my father's admonitions that "boys only want one thing and they really don't like you", so when my H is so adamant about sex (like you, I would be in bed all the time and never get anything done around here) What I am discovering though, is that my H has other issues that impact this, such as fear of abandonment and therefore, my denial is a message to him that I am abandoning him. He is a nudist and demands that I be as well, he prefers bondage practices too, spanking, sodomy, prefers oral sex to vaginal, etc which turn me off. Add to this that he has the stamina of what Stile, in another forum, calls a soap bubble, and that leaves me pretty unsatisfied. He quotes the scripture you mentioned regularly...<BR>What God is helping me to do though as I pray for those other areas of his life, particularly his wife and his fears, is to be more creative in providing a sanctuary for him to come home to, be more provocative during the evening so that I can mentally prepare for being with him and include him in the anticipation of us being together, such as asking him to read to the kids to get them ready for bed so I can take a bath and get ready to make love to him, etc. I also prefer not to have sex in the "mess", though it isn't as bad as it used to be, but now I may invite him into the shower with me and satisfy him orally during those times of the month. He seems to love it and isn't quite so demanding. I also notice that he is less demanding when I have made the effort to put him and sex on the agenda and he knows I am considering him. <BR>And Lor, my H doesn't agree with the POJA either. I do think this stems from his fears and I will just keep praying.

My problem seems to be a little different in this area. I am the one craving the love-making more than my husband. I think I just want to feel desirable again. He is somewhat interested but I am always the one to make the first move. Then it seems to take so much longer now to satisfy him. We are living together and he is no longer seeing the OW but I do know he is now looking through magazines which he never did in the the last 12 years of marriage. Did he just substitute the OW for paper and can I ever satisfy him? I keep myself attractive, am not overweight, have even bought some sexy lingerie in hopes to entice him. But I certainly don't look like the women in those magainzes. Am I the only one with this problem? I keep reading the book and praying to be the best wife I can be but in this area my needs seem very different from others. I pray that the Lord will remove this pornography from him. I also know I should talk to my husband about how I feel about the magazines but I haven't yet. We are making such great strides and he is returning to walking with the Lord but he has not seen the errors of his ways in regard to the porn yet. I will keep on praying! Thanks for listening ladies. I appreciate having somewhere to go to be heard.

This chapter was a good one for me to read. Quite often in our discussions on sex Arik would say "you would be completely satisfied if we never had sex again, wouldn't you?". I don't know if that was entirely true but it certainly wasn't a priority to me. More often than not when the subject or the mood came up(in him) I would roll my eyes and have the attitude, "well if we have to...". I felt being merely being there I was fulfilling my "wifely duties". Since the affair I had to take a look at MY attitude and motivations in this area and since doing that have discovered that sex is actually something I enjoy. I want to make time for it and I crave it when he is away. I want to please him and not just be a body lying there. I want to receive pleasure from it and not just get it over with. All aspects of the sexual experience have intensified in the last 2 months for us and so much of that has to do with me changing my attitude.<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

Up<P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers<BR>Nicole<P><BR>

Up for Dogbert.......<P>This study has been going along for a while and many of us have discussed this topic extensively.<P>Sorry Karrena if I didn't jump back into the topic, I had hoped that it would be addressed by those who were newer to this study.<P>Us Evangelical women are actually pretty interested in Sex! Since it is God's gift to us we just choose to honor Him even in that area of our lives.<P>Blessings, Taj