Lord. please let my h. be committed enough to me to break off all contact with OW. <p>[This message has been edited by alias (edited October 12, 2000).]

POGP, I'm praying with you right now, and will keep you in my prayers all day. Love to you, AW

Thank you dear friend <P>I'll light my candle and do my prayers for everyone else, then try to have some fun at a museum or the zoo with my boys.<P>I am so grateful for the support we get here!<P>lizzie\Pearl of Great Price<P>------------------<P>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR><p>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited January 07, 2000).]

Liz,<P>I just finished reading your post on the Infidelity forum but I wanted to post to you on the bible study forum. I have been trying to stay away from the infidelity forum due to alot of conflicts I have. You know me, I need to "color in the lines".<P>Your husband sounds like he and I mean He is in a real spiritual battle. This truly isn't something you can do for him. He needs to give it all up and hand it over to God. This is his responsibility and something that God wants him to do alone. That may be why you are feeling so weary. You are alot stronger spiritually then your husband right now but you still can't fight his battle. You cannot make decisions of responsibility for him.<P>Your position of strength is on your knees in prayer and that is what you have been doing. Focus all of your energy on the Lord and keep your trust alone in him.<P>There is a devotional I read this morning which I think may be helpful for you. The site is <A HREF="http://www.ficm.org" TARGET=_blank>http://www.ficm.org</A> It is written by Neil Anderson.<P>Lord, give Liz's husband new spiritual discernment to see the raging battle that he is in. Recall to his mind the truths of your word and his need to lay himself completely on the altar of Your grace. Father deliver him from any desire he has for things other then your perfect will for him and Liz. I claim the precious blood of Jesus to cover their marriage and ask for total restoration. IJN

thank you taj.<P>he has been having dreams that have 'spiritual' messages, so I am encouraged. God is trying to 'instruct him while he sleeps' Psalm 16:7.<P>thank you for your prayer, it really blessed me.<P>hugs,<BR>liz<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

i am praying for you too.

Thank you, neen, taj, AW. <P>I am having some disturbing nightmares in which I get even with OW by telling everybody. When I woke up the morning I was really upset to see how angry I was in the dream, since I guess that is how I feel deep inside. <P>I am going to read His Wife again and spend time praying for healing in me. I don't want to actually become the person I was in my nightmare. <P>thanks again,<BR>liz<P>------------------<P>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR><p>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited January 07, 2000).]

Please pray tonight for our counseling session at 7 PM Eastern. I have not asked my husband if he has called to ask her for no contact...it is possible that he changed his mind and decided to wait till she calls or emails again, I don't know.<P>Lord, please heal my hurt feelings. Please be present in our counseling session tonight. Please help my husband to break away from the hold OW has on him and please restore his joy in our marriage.<P>Amen<P>thanks,<BR>liz<P>------------------<P>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR><p>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited January 07, 2000).]

Liz, I'll be praying hard for you tonight. Since I'm an hour behind you (Central Time) this will give me something important to think about and pray about during my long commute home from work! I usually say prayers while I'm driving, since have about a 1 1/2 hour commute. Hang in there, you guys are doing great.

Liz,<P>Glad you let us know about tonight. Praying as I read your post and will be praying at 7pm. Your counselor seems to be really sensitive to you guys. Is she/he a christian? God is there in your midst because He won't ignore all of our pleas on your behalf. I believe we are praying according to His will and you know what that means!!!!!!!!!!!<P>Love Taj/Cathy

AW/Taj,<P>Thank you for your prayers last night. It was a really healthy, productive time.<P>In our session, my husband said that it bothers him that I post about our life and our sessions. I told him if he wanted me to stop, I would. He said "I don't necessarily want you to leave the Bible study. I am just uncomfortable with you giving out details."<BR> <BR>So I have posted a goodbye to the Infidelity forum and edited my posts here, and will be much less specific in my posts here, in deference to his wishes.<P>Yes, our counselor is a Christian, although she probably wouldn't classify herself as 'evangelical'. She uses Gary Smalley materials and other Christian counseling resources. She sees us after a day of doing clerical work, because our HMO laid her off a couple months ago. It is a shame, because she is really good at counseling.<P>Thank you again for your prayer support. I have grown to love you as sisters, even though we are faceless here!<P>I bought The Power of a Praying Parent this week and just started reading it. God has really given Stormie a gift as a result of her difficult life!<P>blessings,<BR>liz\POGP<P>------------------<P>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR><p>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited January 07, 2000).]

Liz,<P>I am so glad it went well last night. Your H sounds like he is focusing on reality and not fantasy. <P>Do you need for that phone converstion to take place with the OW? Is that a nail in the coffin so to speak? Would just no further contact be enough? I know at one time I needed the finality of a letter written to OW but changed my mind after a while.<P>As far as the Infidelity forum goes that must of been done with mixed emotions. I know my H is curious about what I post but doesn't really like the computer because he uses it so much at work. I guess I would have to give it up too if it ever became an issue. He did give me a cartoon from LOCKHORNS which was the wife saying to the husband, "EVERYBODY IN MY CHAT ROOM AGREES WITH ME ABOUT YOU"! <P>Glad you are staying on the POPW forum. We need your prayers and insight.<P>God Bless, Taj/CAthy

Cathy, <P>I don't feel like I need the phone call as much as I'd like him to have the opportunity to terminate things, to make it concrete in his mind. <P>Something I didn't realize before reading Torn Asunder by Dave Carder is that affairs are often tumultuous, off and on, over and over. That describes my h.'s situation, as they both 'broke it off' several times. <BR>Carder says that if that becomes the norm, both parties keep it in the back of their mind that they will get back together one more time.<P>I think before too long she will email him or find a reason to call, and that is when he will have to prove to himself that he can break the ties permanently. The pictures in his wallet have been a good visual tool for him and as he said, "The choice is a no-brainer". <P>I have been praying for "His Mind" and "His Temptations" and particularly praying against her influence and specifically against "Jezebel spirits". She has admitted to me that she enjoys the 'control'. <P>I hadn't thought much about the spiritual side of being a seductress till I saw it described in a rather radical pamplet in a Christian bookstore. <P>I think it makes sense that if a woman makes a "deal with the devil" to give her influence over men sexually, she will be used to disrupt marriages. I think spiritual warfare comes into play here. <P>Don't get me wrong, I am not someone who sees demons lurking in every bad situation, but in this case, it made lots of sense to me. <P>I certainly have seen more progress in improving our marriage since I stopped fretting and nagging and started praying loosing and binding prayers!<P>gotta go, i've got a migraine and the computer screen is making it worse.<P>thanks again,<BR>liz\pearl<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Liz,<P>Wouldn't a letter be better? Isn't that what MB suggests? That way you see it, H has no contact during it and OW will have a piece of paper (kinda like a divorse) that says "Its done"!<P>Thats what I'm hoping that someday will happen with my H and I.... after all in my case with the OC situation it will almost have to be like a divorse...<P>Im thankful that your councelling went well, blessings to you! cozy/Sue

cozy,<BR> <BR>he doesn't plan on doing anything unless she contacts him. i think he can handle a phone call, he will have our family picture to look at while he talks to her. this makes it very concrete for him.<P>i won't be posting any more details about our sessions, in keeping with my promise to him.<P>liz<P>------------------<P>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR><p>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited January 07, 2000).]

Hi.<P>I really need your prayers today and this weekend. <P>We had a counseling session last night. As you know, two weeks ago he told me he had been in contact with OW since leaving his old job. Our counselor has him carrying a family picture in his wallet, as well as one of the two of us, to remind him what is at stake. He has promised to ask her for no further contact if she calls or emails, and said that he would not contact her.<P>He has 'technically' kept his word, but told us that he called her extension once this past week after he knew she would have left the office, just to hear the recording of her voice. <P>We discussed the pain the separation is causing him. He tried to change the direction of the session several times, saying "Liz doesn't need to be hearing this, it can't be good for her" and "Let's not talk about OW any more, it is pointless." <P>I sat with a sweet, patient smile pasted on my face, but I wanted to scream and run out. I DO NOT understand. I DO NOT want to be loving and sweet. Both the counselor and I tried to show him that he is hurting himself by keeping up the 'contact'.<P>We all agreed that he would benefit from meeting with the counselor alone next Tuesday. I am thinking of suggesting that we alternate weeks, one joint session, one him alone for several months. <P>This morning, I called and left a message asking the counselor to call me back because I am so distracted by the 'setback'.<P>Then again, I wonder if it isn't progress in disguise...at least he was honest about what he was feeling. Maybe I need to just be glad that we are making progress as 'friends', but frankly, I don't need another "buddy".<P>The saddest thing of all was that he said, "After what I've been through, I don't want to fall in love with anyone again for a very long time. Trust is just too hard for me."<P>HARD FOR HIM?????Hello! <P>Thanks for listening. <BR>lizzie <P>------------------<P>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR><p>[This message has been edited by POGP (edited January 14, 2000).]

Liz,<P>Whew! How does one respond to your post after knowing all you have been through already. <P>I just breathed a quick prayer and here goes.<P>You are getting lots of details. Truly, the devil is in the details. Honesty brings forth clarity. Too much honesty at one time is very difficult to handle. Dr. Harley of course believes in total honesty.<P>As difficult as living through your counseling sessions is becoming it will clear the air once and for all. It will also give your H the chance to really be free from the pain, guilt, and sorrow that his choices have brought about.<P>My H has only gone to 4 sessions with a counselor. He has NEVER spoken of his own personal tragedy in all of this. I know he is carrying baggage that continues to complicate our relationship. As hard as it would be to hear all of the truth I would endure it if he would be healthy on the other side.<P>Lord, give Liz the strength to endure these counseling revelations. Give her "thick skin" that the information would be unable to penetrate her resolve to see her marrriage whole again. Free her husband from the hold that his emotions have on him. Feelings are fleeting but fact is steady and true. Let him see Liz as the rock that she is and seek to anchor himself to her alone. Let him see Liz's strength coming from you and desire that for himself.<BR>IJN

Thanks Cathy, you are a good friend and your prayer touches me and speaks healing to a hurting heart.<P>liz

Liz, I am so sorry you have to go through this. I wish I had the right words to say to make you feel better because you have done so much for us. Just know that you are in my prayers. I was reading today how hardship builds character. We can receive from the conflict a spiritual discipline that will greatly strengthen our faith and establish our spiritual character. Keep the faith, Liz. And sometimes we have to look at the little things. He did not talk to her - if that's any consolation at all. Take heart and keep praying. Blessings, J

Please continue to pray for me through the weekend. <P>I've been crying alot this afternoon, even as I left a message for my h. at work. We talked a bit when he called back, but he just doesn't comprehend how much he is still hurting me by holding on to memories of her. <P>Our counselor called me back and said she wished she could predict how long he will go on clinging to OW, that she knows I can't keep on waiting forever. She asked me to be patient and honest. The honest part isn't nearly as hard as the patience. I feel like my being patient and loving gives him license to keep holding on to the memory of OW.<P>I'm really depressed and I know he hates it when I am moody, but this is honest pain, not manipulation.<P>thanks, Liz<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

You're on my prayer list - will fervently pray for you and your H this weekend. He is being honest with you and going to counseling, so he does value you more than her. I understand your pain over his comment about not wanting to fall in love again, I would be devastated if my H said that to me. I wish there was something I could say to lift your spirits up right now. <BR>I've also been crying a lot today (my H has taken some big steps backwards). I know that instead of crying and hurting I should pray and give it all to God. <P>Keep your faith dear POGP, and know we are all praying for you. It hurts our hearts too when you're hurt. <BR>

Newday and Rootbeer(AW) (I like that better, too, wasn't it Taj that said you are so much more than an Alcoholic's Wife?), and everyone else here: <P>Thank you for your prayers. Last night I felt a bit better after we attended my son's basketball game. <P>After the kids went to bed we talked for a while and he told me that he can't help me understand why he made the call because he doesn't know why. We agreed that some feelings and actions just don't make logical sense. <P>He asked "Haven't I been treating you better than I ever have in the 16 years we've been together? Why not assume that things will keep going in that direction, getting better and better. Don't be sad. Who knows how I will feel in the future."<P>As we were falling asleep, he said "You know, I do love you, very much."<P>I needed to hear that so much, especially without it being in response to my saying it first.<P>I can't tell you how much I value all the women here. If you had ever told me a year ago that I would have cyber pals from a cyber prayer group I would have laughed my head off.<P>I will try to keep my perspective, especially as far as trusting in God and his faithfulness. I have had two hymns in my head for a couple of days now; "Great is Thy Faithfulness" and "The Solid Rock".<P>Obviously, faithfulness is a huge issue for all of us who have come here from the Infidelity forum, and I can't help but think that the Lord is reminding me, and us, that we shouldn't trust "The Sweetest Frame" but 'Wholly lean' on him. <P>Isn't it tempting, tho, to want to place all our trust in someone with skin on? <P>Thank you dears,<BR>lizzie<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

As I finished my last post, I imagined that some of your might be thinking "what is she whining about, at least her husband is living with her, or at least his affair is over, or at least he has stopped his heavy drinking"...and I want to be sure to say;<P>I have much to be thankful for, and I know it.<P>God has brought us SO far in the past five months, I never thought we would even still be together for the new millenium.<P>If you perceive you situation to be far worse than mine, please forgive me if I sound like I am whining. I would hate to cause anyone here more pain than they are already in. I love you ladies and will continue to pray for each of your marriages and families.<P>thanks, lizzie<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Hi all.<P>Just a quick request. <P>If you happen to read this on Tuesday, please pray for my husband this evening. He will be talking with our counselor from 7-8 Eastern time. <P>This is his 'private' session to discuss his feelings for OW and his desire to continue contact with her (remember he called her extension just to hear her recording?).<P>Dear Lord, please give our counselor LP wisdom and the ability to cut through the fog and speak truth in love to my husband. <P>Please enable him to look inside and see what is causing his desire to contact OW. Holy Spirit, please enlighten my husband and let your light shine in all the dark recesses of his heart. Please empower LP to speak when you want her to and listen when she should.<P>AMEN<BR>lizzie<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Liz,<P>Somehow I have missed your last few posts on this thread. Sorry!<P>I wanted to address some of your comments in regards to your situation.<P>I have never considered your posts to be whining. You have a right to express your hurts, disappointments, and concerns like anyone else. No matter what the depth of your circumstances.<P>I have always considered you to be such a strong person. You have needed to continue to work on a marriage even when the OP is there to some degree. I don't know how you do it. Yes I do! It is God!<P>I have only dealt with the other person 3-4 times and each one was very distasteful and discouraging. God knows you have the ability in Him to face this issue until it is a thing of the past. I truly believe that WILL be the case.<P>I will be praying for your H tonight. I will pray that he will be once and for all delivered from the spirit of deception and the spirit of lust. The OW must die from his experience in all ways. This is a hard way of looking at it but I feel that is how I want to pray for your H.<P>God Bless, and hangeth thou in there <P>Taj<P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18

Lizzie, your H will be the main topic tonight as I drive my long drive home. I'm an hour behind you, so 7PM EST will be while I have my nightly prayer time on my 1 1/2 hour drive home. God bless you and keep you safe, you are in my prayers too. Do you have another joint counseling session this Thursday? I have been trying to get an appt. with our pastor for this Sunday for another counseling session for us. My husband actually agreed to go again. I gotta make good on his promise to go before he changes his mind!!

I don't know when he will schedule our next joint appt. for. It could be this Thurs. or next, either would be fine. Thank you for your concern.<P>AW, I will pray that your h. keeps the Sunday appt. How wonderful that he will go for pastoral counseling. I wish....no, that is whining. Sorry.<P>love ya,<BR>lizzie<BR>Taj:hangest thou also! <P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

I will continue to pray for you all as you go through your counseling sessions (wish it were us I know how beneficial and sometimes difficult these can be. I pray that God will use these couselors and pastors to reach out to your husbands and help them feel the hand of God. Blessings, J

Hi. <P>Just spoke with my h. on the phone. He is calling the counselor to cancel the appt. Says he is swamped with work and will be late getting home. <P>Oh, well. I think he probably really is busy, but unfortunately the rest of his evenings are busy this week, so we will have to push our appt. to the week after next, if he schedules his for next week. Patience, patience. At least he still seems to want to go for a session himself.<P>I am also concerned about an overnight trip he is taking Thursday/Friday for a professional organization meeting. Please pray that I won't freak out. It is his first trip since his confession.<P>lizzie<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Lizzie,<P>I'm sorry he didn't go. I still prayed for him (and you) though. Will keep up my prayer vigil on this subject.

AW,<P>Thanks. I am starting to fret about this overnight trip. I am also starting to obsess about a woman's business card I found in his wallet. It is probably nothing, but Satan really wants to 'get me going' I think.<P>I will let you know if a new appt. is made. <P>Have you had any luck scheduling another pastoral session for Sunday?<P>liz<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

Don't fret, ok? You are right, it is Satan trying to drag you down. I really believe that the evil one is after us more than our husbands. He wants to destroy us along with our marriages. Your husband probably was given the business card by a business contact and hasn't put it in his rolodex yet. I can understand that because I have a bunch of men's business cards in my wallet that I never get around to scanning into the computer. I'm in the computer industry, which is a male dominated industry, so I have to have these business contacts who happen to be male. I know these cards in my wallet are perfectly legit, and most likely your husband's is too. Please don't worry. Like my pastor told me, "trust him fully until he gives you reason not to otherwise". I did get an appt. scheduled for counseling for us on Sunday afternoon, 2:00 Central time. Please pray for us regarding this counseling session. I'm praying that my husband will not back out of going, and that the Lord give the pastor the words from Him. Thanks Liz.

root beer,<P>You are right, of course. The woman is probably just a business contact. Her number is also in his palm pilot, but I still find myself fretting, especially about this overnight trip. <P>His ExOW has also worked on projects in the city where he will be, and they once took a business trip together on a project she had nothing to do with! (I still haven't figured out how she filled out her travel voucher...)<P>thanks for listening, I know I am just being paranoid.<P>I will certainly pray on Sunday afternoon.<P>liz\pearl<P>------------------<BR><BR>"I have found the Pearl of Great Price"<BR>

it was all lies<p>[This message has been edited by alias (edited October 12, 2000).]

<BR>[This message has been edited by alias (edited October 12, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by alias (edited October 12, 2000).]

What that all means is, if it looks like a lying, cheating, s--t, smells like one, and still behaves like one...<P><BR>who am I kidding? She is, without question, the vessel of a Jezebel spirit.<P>so, do I pity her or punish her?

<BR>how do I believe anything either of them ever says?<P>when will I learn that other people (particularly sociopaths) are without conscience.<P>what do I do now?<P>gotta go study (HAH)<p>[This message has been edited by alias (edited October 12, 2000).]

also, our counselor just became HIS counselor. <P>She knew about the February contact and thought it wasn't significant. She was wrong. It is another betrayal of trust, a promise made in her office with her as witness.<P>

Having problems connecting out here, so have missed much in following you ladies. Not sure what your post said POGP, but can certainly feel the pain you are presently experiencing. If God wasn't who He says He is, I do not believe I would have any hope what so ever. It has been an interesting week, able to observe lots of "couples", to ask them what the strength of their marriages are, to watch them interact...<P>and I have been praying lots, focusing on 1 Cor 13, trying to understand what love is and is not and how I can honor the Father or have not been honoring Him by allowing the scenarios at home to continue. To truly understand what committment means, to love enough to not allow garbage to reign over the relationship, to be willing to separate to keep the love intact. <P>Haven't had much contact with hubby and the one time it occurred, the same old topic came up. Had a job offer here. Boy, was that tempting! I think more so though, it was an affirmation that God will take care of me, that He knows my heart and my desires for this marriage. In some ways I wish I could stay and help my parents out, but I know the battle for my marriage isn't complete yet.<P>The purpose for time apart is to be refreshed, renewed to continue the battle. I am not sure that has occurred in this short time away. <P>As always, HW, your prayers are a blessing. I pray for you often. I can't tell you how often when I think of you all how the spirit moves my heart to pray for you, how I carry your hurts in prayer, how quickly the tears form in my eyes that this battle should have to happen to us and yet, how, in some ways we are blessed that it is occurring to us, for it makes us more tender in spirit and more sensitive to the pain around us and encourages us to reach beyond ourselves to touch those near us who are hurting and may not know this God we have.<P>Think that the evil one's fallacy, that just because someone believes in God, they shouldn't have any problems. As long as we are here, we will have problems for we are out of our realm, away from home and we will always experience some pain, some sense of homesickness until Jesus comes back. We will always expereince some dissatisfaction I think for compared to Christ, everyone else is inadequate to meet out needs or to love us as we desire.<P>We, in turn, are inadequate to love Christ as He deserves, but He loves us anyway. How thankful I am for that love. <P>If you ever have played with modling clay, when you first pick it up, it is hard and stiff, not pliable at all. As you squish it and crunch it in your hands, it gives some and as you continue to smash it between your hands, as the warmth of your fingers saturates the clay, it gives a bit more until slowly it becomes pliable and soft, moldable. <P>Paul talks about being poured out like a drink offering and that is what I am experiencing right now I think. I think of the old medical days, where they thought it was good for you to do bloodletting to get the poison out and ended up killing more people than doing good. <P>I am not enhancing the cause of Christ or pursuing love if I allow the verbal abuse to continue, if I allow the focus of our marriage to remain on the topic my H chooses, if I allow the focus to be on anything other than Christ and the love He has for us. Continue to pray for wisdom for me as I separate these thoughts and take the next necessary steps in my marriage for love.<P>Hugs to you all.

Lizzie, I am SO glad you caught it in time!!!<P>Does this mean she is still facing ramifications at work?<P>

Lizzie,<P>Whatever you have uncovered keep it in perspective. Look at the whole picture. New betrayals are still apart of the big picture. I had some new info come forth over a year after discovery, it was even harder to take but God gave grace for that as well.<P>I'm praying for you.<BR>Lizzie, Don't surrender anymore ground to the enemy.......Stand fast in your armor!<p>[This message has been edited by Taj (edited October 12, 2000).]

Karenna, YUP. Can't say more. <P>Taj, I am prayerful and calm. I have gotten advice from my pastor. I am waiting and watching. I will wait and watch for 35 years if necessary. I will not let down my guard, but I will not LB. I am woman, hear me whimper, then roar!<P>Pastor encouraged me to think of financial and social implications of divorce. Wise man. He said, "People do stay in marriages for many reasons, and practical considerations are not ungodly."<P>I pointed out that the Proverbs woman was shrewd and he agreed. <P>thanks guys.<BR>liz<P>[This message has been edited by alias (edited October 12, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by alias (edited October 12, 2000).]

Taj. I can't stand up, my armor is too heavy.<P>liz