That was quite a post a quite a journey you have been on. I wasn't comfortable answering you on the other forum. Lots of thoughts going through my head...<P>Is he back in the home again? I wasn't clear about that in your post. If he is, then I suggest you ask him to leave again and take the steps below.<P>#1. If he is not, then I would go to an atty immediately and begin the legal separation paperwork so that you can garnish his wages for child and spousal support. You then will be able to make your house payment. I would humble myself and go to welfare and get on assistance so that there would be food in the house and perhaps some additional assistance to keep the lights from being turned off.<P>#2. I would also check with Social Services to see if they have a return to work program so that you can receive training for a job to be able to provide for yourself and the children while some of the other steps you need to take will be effective.<P>#3. I don't know if your parents are in the position to provide childcare to your children while you are in training or not and I do not know the ages of your children at this point. It may mean that they have to attend public school for awhile, but I do not believe God has us sit on our laurels and wait for the world (or the body) to take care of us. I belive that just as He is a proactive God, he desires for us to be proactive as well.<P>#4. Quite honestly my dear sister, our backgrounds are so similar that it took my breath away. We didn't have God in our lives in my childhood but everything else fits including having a scholarship for college and my father said that girls didn't need to go to college and I wasn't allowed to go.<P>What I share with you is been the gift of my experience and how God has grown me since and still is growing me. Have you ever asked your father for forgiveness for your rebelliousness as a child? Your heavenly Father either for that matter? There are so many things in your post that the Boundaries thread will help you with. <P>This group desires for our marriages to be restored as God intended them to be, but the process we are discovering is that God desires to change us first to become the women he would have us be and in that process, God is healing us, whether or not our marriages are rebuilt according to his plan. Some of us are in waiting mode, some have had marriages healed and some are taking the steps I encourage you to take.<P>The first chapter of the Power of A Praying Wife is "His Wife" and it is here that we ask the Lord to change us. The whole theme of Boundaries is the need for us to work on ourselves and learn how to set limits on ourselves as God's daughters and realize that the treatment we have received more often occurs because we have allowed it. OUCH! That is a hard one to swallow. It is the process of taking back control in our lives so that we are freer to become the Proverbs 31 lady.<P>It is relinguishing our will to His to remove the dross from our lives so that we can be the useful vessel to Him according to His purpose. His purpose prevails anyway and so, our fropahs only delay what He intends anyway. It is the process of taking captive our thoughts and removing the roots of bitterness, etc so that Satan does not have a foothold inour lives.<P>I do not know if God will heal your marriage or restore the love you once had for one another, but you have a responsibility to yourself and to your children to remove the millstone and chains of bondage that depression and the lack of stewardship have had on you. We will love you, encourage you, pray for you and hold you accountable to continually look in the mirror of your heart to see what God would have you learn.<P>I hope you will join us.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The whole theme of Boundaries is the need for us to work on ourselves and learn how to set limits on ourselves as God's daughters and realize that the treatment we have received more often occurs because we have allowed it. OUCH! That is a hard one to swallow. It is the process of taking back control in our lives so that we are freer to become the Proverbs 31 lady.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>SueB, this is so true! I knew this a long time ago but yet I ended up tolerating things I found unacceptable with my H anyway. It's a slippery slope, and I remember the very first step. It was a very trivial thing, but symbolically, it represents the beginning of a long series of mistakes. It's so stupid I hesitate to even describe it, but here goes...<P>I've always been, well, fiercely resistant to living up to "female stereotypes." I love to dig in dirt and get muddy. I'm a sloppy housekeeper and lousy cook. I don't have kids and never wanted any. I didn't like dolls as a little girl, and absolutely detested going to church, mainly because I had to wear a nice dress. Getting married was a big adjustment for me.<P>As a newlywed, we took turns doing laundry. He lost or ruined some of my favorite things, so he got jeans and laundry, I did the rest. That means underwear. A small hole formed in one of his pairs and I figured it might be around another month. <P>The next time, the hole was bigger and others had joined in. I thought, this man needs to do something about this! The next time, the hole was big enough for half his foot to fit through. It shows up again the next time, and I teased him about it, asking him how does he know which hole to put his foot through. Again it shows up, and I vowed NOT to ever be one of those wives who buys underwear for their husbands!! SIX months go by and this tattered shadow of underwear is still in use. I became disgusted and couldn't believe that this underwear was even capable of being worn. It shows up again the next week. <P>I grab him by the ear (figuratively of course) and drag him to the store for him to pick out his underwear. We get there, and the whole underwear department is filled with nuns. He felt too embarrassed to pick out new underwear while nuns were nearby. So guess what. I bought my H's underwear. Something I vowed to myself I wouldn't do, and I compromised my own word. <P>If I had known then what I know now, I could have done things differently from the beginning. But no. I'm just now figuring all this out, and now I have 13 years of bad behaviors to correct. To thine own self be true. I used to know this so well. Now I'm learning it all over again. <P>This example is so tame compared to stories like onedayatatime's. At face value, my newlywed story isn't worth mentioning. The underlying theme, though, applies to many of us in various situations. It is up to each of us to set boundaries that keep dear things close to us and undesirable things as far away as possible. <P>Over many years I feel that I've turned into someone that I don't want to be. I should have stood more firmly next to my beliefs. I compromised them instead. It's not always easy to distinguish the important things from the trivial things. And it's easy to forget that a small thing and a trivial thing are not necessarily synonymous. Buying underwear is a trivial thing. But when that trivial thing represents the compromise of my own values, it's not really trivial anymore. Maybe I'm just so clueless that I have no idea even after 13 years about how to live with a man in harmony. <P>Proverbs31wife, SueB's suggestions sound like your situation is quite serious. I'm not very good in the prayer department, but praying to become a stronger person is one I highly recommend. Many wonderful, patient, and understanding ladies are here to support you (and me who's still rough around the edges).<P><BR>

Wow Lonesome, your example helped me ! Thanks for sharing.....even the trivial as you called it can be full of insight.<P>Blessings, Taj

Lonesome, that was neat insight. Guess that is what I am relalizing too, how I have been compromising myself in the pursuit of harmony and think I am realizing that it is somewhat of a matter of sin in that in some sense it is an integrity issue.<P>Your example could be played out here. I just threw them away and I figured one of these days, he would run out of them and then maybe he would do something about it. He did... quit wearing them...sigh...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I figured one of these days, he would run out of them and then maybe he would do something about it. He did... quit wearing them...sigh...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>ROFL!! I'm glad y'all enjoyed my post. I decided to share it because if we have trouble with something so stupid, how do we deal with the bigger things? Where's that celestial frying pan? I want to hit my H over the head with it at least once daily. LOL<P>If proverbslady ever shows up, I just want her to know that if she's in a really bad situation, she has my heartfelt sympathy.

Here is an example on the subject of boundaries. Tell me what to do! (Today is our 11th anniversary by the way.) I got very, very angry this morning with my husband. He got out of the bed with stains up and down the rear-end of his underwear because he did not clean himself up and had scratched himself. He has ALWAYS dug his underwear scratching and it makes me sick. He tried to tell me that it was steak sauce. He then starting getting his clothes out of the closet to pack them, angry with ME! Now I have to spend time washing the bed sheets and stuff. What would you do in a situation like this? I'm so frustrated that I feel like a walking time-bomb. I'm so sorry to be so graphic and gross, but I gotta have some help. <P><BR>

Hi Proverbs31lady, glad you came on down.<P>The situation you described is gross enough all right and I honestly could match you with some things that happen at my house. Somewhere though my feelings changed from anger to a genuine I feel sorry for him 'cause he hasn't a clue. He doesn't deliberately go out of his way to gross me out. He just doesn't think about stuff. <P>Because appearance is important to me and is part of my being proud of my husband in trying to empathize the respect part, I lay my husband's clothes out every single day, from socks to tie or even jeans and t-shirt for casual day. Some of you would have a problem with this, but the appearance thing was my problem, not his. He can't match diddley and could care less. I approached it as "let me get those clothes for you while you are in the shower", and lovingly pushed him to the shower with his towel, so he now consistently showers daily.<P>My H is very obese and can't reach to wipe himself well. I still have a problem with the smell, etc. but I am trying to figure out what I need to do so this isn't a problem for me. My H would react angrily if I mentioned it to him, more covering embarassment I think.<P>So, in the what do you do category, you know that nagging is sin, you know that the anger and resentment you feel is sin. So what limit can you place on yourself so that you can respond lovingly to your husband and still maintain your sanity? What do you need to do to find peace? One thing you said was that you needed to change the sheets and I hear you being angry about that. Why the anger? <B>Believe me, I am NOT condoning your husband's behavior!</B> There are just two ways to go about this.<P>One, I just flashed on the cleanliness is next to godliness saying that most of us grew up with. So, in washing the sheets, you have an opportunity to pray and praise God for who He is and how he loves you. He tells us to lay our burdens down before him, all anxiety, etc. and He will give us peace beyond our understanding. So these anger provoking behaviors are opportunities to develop a deeper, intimate relationship with God and in the process to pray for your husband for He obviously needs prayer and who better pray for him than his wife.<P>Or two, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> 1CO 7:10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. [11] But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.<P> PR 21:9 Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The more you nag, the worse he is getting...is that about right? So it is a control thing, a power play and because you get angry, he wins. Kind of like passive agressive behavior playing itself out. And your love for your husband is waning. So what would happen if you moved him out with the information that you desire to work on your relationship and hate the discord the two of you have going on right now and that you realize that you are dishonoring him by nagging and yet can't quite figure out how to balance the emotions, etc. That the action is like living on the rooftop yourself because you know that it is yuchy to live with a quarrelsome wife.<P>Perhaps that space will give each of you time to think about the things that really bother each of you and then be able to work on compromise stuff and reconcile the differences. <P>Either one of these choices are not going to be easy P31L, I know. A couple of things I do here because I too am grossed out by certain things is that I may initiate sex by filling a bowl of soapy water and bathing my husband, then lotioning, massaging, etc. I may take him into the shower and wash him and then to the bedroom. <P>As I mentioned before, I threw away the underwear as I am past diaper rinsing and washing days and there was no way, I was putting that dirty underwear in my washing machine as they were.<P>Continue to write and let's brainstorm this stuff together. Hugs to you! And I realize that first and foremost there are the first issues that you wrote about. I assume he has friends somewhere to stay with? Let him go if he packs to go...you are experiencing so much grief from how this marraige turned out already, what difference does it matter if he leaves on your aniversary? I hope I am not confusing you. I do believe God hates divorce and wants us to be reconciled, but I am also realizing that there are things God is teaching me that I need to learn before other stuff will happen.<P>You have your children to take care of, a roof to keep over your head and food to put into your children's mouths to focus on. You have to choose what is important to you at this moment and then let the rest go for today.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by SueB (edited September 29, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My H is very obese and can't reach to wipe himself well. I still have a problem with the smell, etc. but I am trying to figure out what I need to do so this isn't a problem for me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There is a toilet seat manufactured in Japan that has built in bidet with automatic warm water jets and drying air jets and everything. I haven't seen it but I understand that it is marketed in the US too. Maybe a web search would turn up a hardware solution to this tricky cleanliness problem. As far as my priorities go, I would pay a plumber plenty of good hard-earned money to resolve this problem!!! Even to sacrificing some basic necessities.<P>I know I wouldn't mind having one of those, especially now with my gigantic belly in the way. <P>Tricks to reaching over immense girth: pull pants all the way down to ankles. Then knees can spread widely enough to allow a good reach around the abdomen. If the buttocks are too wide --- take a shower and use a long scrub brush.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He has ALWAYS dug his underwear scratching and it makes me sick. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So THAT's what that is. Yep. I know exactly what you're talking about. P31L, you have a perfect opportunity here. <P>If you can afford it, go out and buy your H some new undies. Come home happy and cheerfully announce that you had an uncontrollable urge to go shopping. You were looking at that pile of laundry, and it made you feel so good to just throw it out! You reached a point where it was time to get something new instead washing that tired old stuff one more time. "And besides, honey, I just didn't feel like doing laundry on our anniversary. So Happy Anniversary. Here's some new underwear. Sorry I didn't do more but I forgot all about it until I was standing in front of the washing machine." <P>If he fusses, stand firm. Keep your voice calm and even. Insist to him that you are NOT laundering that pair from this morning. It is unacceptable to you and if he wants to keep them, he's in charge of laundering them.<P>