Guess what? I am a Nana, again! SD had a baby boy last night. All these new babies in our family, is neat-o. He has white white fuzzy hair, and was born with a "wet lung", but I think he is doing okay. SD did a great job in labor - and had him natural. <p>It also was an uncomfortable day, as this means interaction with his x-wife. Everything went well at the hospital, but the x was obviously over-friendly with my husband - even our 9 year old commented about how she had touched my husband. oh so what is new. <p>I called his x yesterday trying to find out what happend to SD after my husband took SD to her doctors appointment. (I knew that she was in the early stages of labor when my H took SD to her AM appointment.) So, as I am talking with X on telephone, SD walks in X's house - and so did someone else - whistling - sounded just like my husband. X exclaims with such glee "TNT is on the phone" (like I was a long lost relative that she hasn't talked to in 500 years - not normal behavior) and she puts SD on phone, and whistling IMMEDIATELY stops. I talk with SD, and she says that her dad is going to head back to work, and she is in labor and will go lay on her mothers couch until the contractions are at 3 minutes. I heard X talking to a man in the background. <p>So, anyway - to make a long story short, I suspected H went into X's house. I never said anything about this until we got home. He whistled at the hospital, and after we got home he started whistling. It was after his whistling that I said that I am waiting for him to tell me about going into X's house. (I didn't over-react, or say it angrily, just wanted him to tell me what happened. To him it was a LB and he felt he had the right to rip me to shreds emotionally.)<p>Anyway, he changed his whistling tune in an instant - pointing his finger, calling me names, said I was paranoid, and everything else. I basically shut up and walked out of the room. <p>This morning, he LB some more, (I'm crazy, paranoid, etc.) I did not LB back at all. Then he sends me this email (never sends me an email):
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I had to send this to you after what you beleived when I dropped <SD> off at her mothers.

Somewhat ironic that it was sent to me the next day of work.

All employee's in our office receive one each day.

<Tnt's H First Name, Tnt's H Last Name.><p>>>>"What you don't see with your eyes, don't invent with your mouth."
--Jewish proverb--
<hr></blockquote><p>Okay - what did I do wrong? How does it apply to co-dependency? What was wrong with my behavior? How should a 'normal' person behave when interacting? Am I a paranoid? Am I crazy? <p>Okay, I know I don't deserve disrespectful verbal abusive behavior. I already know what my husbands shortcomings are - I want to know what my issues are - that is the only thing I can fix!<p>Thanks
TNT

WELL.... sigh... first CONGRATS to Nana!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I don't know what to say about the whole H and ex thing... I guess you *know* it was him, huh? It's all like a big game, and yek, it stinks!! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I don't think you did anything wrong by asking. He's the one who freaked out. <p>I could give you a standard MB answer and tell you that if you're in Plan A then you wouldn't have asked, because you really did know the truth. Or... I could give you a standard Dobson-type (Tough Love) type answer and tell you to tell him to go live with her if that's what he wants... or I could give you my answer, which is you did nothing wrong, and he needs to FACE REALITY, GET HONEST, or GET OUT. I hate that you're treated like this. <p> [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

HI TNT,
H is being defensive. It is not you, it is him. He is attacking because that is his normal repsonse when busted. You call him on nonsense, he attacks, you back off and wonder what your own issues are.
It works and he has this down to a science my dear.
You have to find a way to break the cycle. He isnt going to do, you have to.
Gotta run, but more later. Love, cl

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I could give you a standard MB answer and tell you that if you're in Plan A then you wouldn't have asked, because you really did know the truth. Or... I could give you a standard Dobson-type (Tough Love) type answer and tell you to tell him to go live with her if that's what he wants... or I could give you my answer, which is you did nothing wrong, and he needs to FACE REALITY, GET HONEST, or GET OUT. I hate that you're treated like this. <hr></blockquote><p>I'm with Sheryl. Door number 3 please. <p>MB principles might view your confrontation as an LB, but LBs arent' the only issue. The key issue is the level of honesty. You were in a lose/lose situation. If you said nothing and "waited" for him to tell you about the visit to the x, do you have any realistic expectation that he would offer that info of his own free will? In your dreams, right? bzzzzzz, you lose. By mentioning it, you're immediately in the villain role and committing the mortal sin of LBs. bzzzzz, you lose again. <p>I have the same problem with my H. We've been separated a week now, and I saw him briefly yesterday. He gave me detailed descriptions of three bizarre occurrences. One involved being pulled over by the police, not because he violated any traffic rules, but because the officer wanted him to be more "cautious". Another involved being followed. Another involved a strange truck in his driveway and he's worried about a break-in. Maybe these things happened, maybe the men in white suits need to take him, I don't know. What he DIDN'T mention was his appointment at the veteran center which was scheduled sometime this week. I spent considerable effort paving a path a mile wide for him to get counselling. I don't know if he's going or not, and he knows that any hope for reconciliation hinges on him getting counselling. He remains silent on that topic. If I bring it up, it's an LB. Lose/lose. <p>I'm beginning to get a better handle on what's wrong with the dynamics of our communication. A tv show helped clarify it just this week. There was an asst DA who was investigating a murder suspect. The suspect took a hostage at knifepoint and demanded an attorney. The asst DA went in to negotiate. She showed the suspect her state bar card to prove she was an atty, but left out the part that she's a prosecutor. The hostage was released and suspect arrested. Next thing she knows, she's brought up on charges and facing disbarment. "Lying by omission" I think is the term that was used. Yes, she was an attorney. Yes, she was careful not to offer actual legal advice. Yes, she successfully negotiating the release of a hostage. But, by omitting the information that she was a DA, she had effectively lied and misrepresented herself. <p>Light bulb moment! That's what my H does! That's what your H does, tnt. If he did 25 things that afternoon, and he tells you 24 of them, is he lying? I think that's where things get sticky. He could say he told you about the twinkies he ate, the gas he put in the truck, and the next 22 things. Now, if he ate brownies instead of twinkies, well, a REAL lie would be telling you he ate twinkies. He didn't do that, so he's being truthful. He could have just as easily said he did 23 things, left out the twinkies and the x, and still be truthful. <p>This is a game that I'm guilty of myself. In retrospect, it's no mystery that I ended up with a master of the same game. I come from a family of worriers. My grandmother worried about everything. My mom worries. She gets panic attacks. My marriage has deteriorated over many years, and I tried to hide it from her. More recently I tell her some things, but not others. I'm less than honest with her. My H is less than honest with me. I won't feel deceived if he fails to tell me about twinkies, but I will feel deceived if remains silent about his status with the veteran center. <p>I don't know what the answer is tnt. In fairness to your H, I do think it's a natural response to be defensive when you're "busted." It appears that he planned on lying by omission. You found him out, and he got defensive. It's really not acceptable for him to visit x, be silent about it, and still be ok with you. Somehow honesty needs to be more comfortable, more natural. Perhaps you could tell him how you feel deceived by his silence on the issue, and you consider honesty an essential ingredient to the future of your marriage. Ask HIM for a solution. See if he is willing to offer a change in behavior that represents an increased level of honesty in your marriage.

Well, thank you all kind ladies for validating me. <p>He knows super well that my most important emotional need is honesty - he even wrote down my emotional needs on a paper the other day for himself - to remind him. Good for him.<p>I think I am going to learn more about his dysfunctional behavior some, but mostly I am going to concentrate on me - not him. I just can't seem to effect change on our interaction - but maybe I can learn to have more "self-control" and really resolve that this guy is just stuck in his behavior patterns and he probably will never get it. How to insulate myself from the emotional abuse..... hmmmm...... Don't know if it is possible!<p>Thank you all for your replies.
TNT