<BR>Its me again - the class dummy. While everyone else is making plans and going forward, I sit here spinning my wheels. I'm still no further ahead than 2 months ago. My husband denied that he had anything going on with anyone, and refuses to talk about it anymore. A lot of evidence points the other way, and I am still waffling on believing him and going with my gut instinct. Sometimes I think I'm being unreasonable, its all based on a deep fear within myself or on a lack of self-esteem. Other times there's just too much circumstantial evidence to be ignored. I have no OW, no hard evidence, in fact, I'm quite sure whatever was going on has stopped. Any further information to support or discredit my feelings lie with him, and he's not talking. I've learned from the money fiasco the other week that he can stare me in the eyes and lie thru his teeth, and do it really well. That begs the question, how many other times has he??<P>I wonder why I can't just let it go, and build from here. After all, whether he confesses or not, nothing can change the past. Then again, how can we build on a foundation of distrust and/or deceit? How do I get past this giant roadblock of not believing anything he says? It's the "fool me once" syndrome. It enrages me that, if I'm right, then another woman obviously knows more about my marriage than I do. She knows that whether my husband has been unfaithful, whereas I don't deserve the same amount of knowledge. If he is being truthful, then I'm risking my marriage on a feeling that's wrong!! Am I going crazy??? <P>I want above everything else to find out the truth (well, I may regret it in the future, but right now its important). I want to be sure in my own mind which is the truth. I don't know how to get that peace of mind that at least I KNOW. Has anyone ever successfully repaired their marriage without ever being satisfied that they know the truth? <P>I have scheduled anappointment with a counselor. Last night I told H what I planned and asked if he was willing to go with me. Flatly no. I've asked before with the same response - his reasoning before was always that it is very expensive, this time I've arranged a pro bono. He is against me going ("do whatever you want, you always do" reads that way). I asked if he has given up on our marriage, his reply was "of course not". I said that I know he is against me going, but I think I really need help. (I was really calm and collected - you'd all be proud of me). Maybe it's a LB to go ahead against his wishes, but I am really falling apart here - its not getting better, its getting worse. <P>In light of some other posts this morning, this all seems kind of lame. <P>

Hi Moira, <BR> This is not a lame post , I agree with you the truth is extremely important . I don't think you can have a good relationship built on lies, half truths etc.<P>I think you need to maybe let it rest with him for awhile but keep looking on your own....the truth will come out. Check receipts, cell phone bills,anything you can think of....Harley said that an affair requires time and money. I think it's essential that you do find out the truth and not let it go. <P>Frank Pittman in "Private Lies" says that a marriage with secrets feels unsafe and unstable.....Lu

I wish I could find out more information, but that's highly unlikely. He's cleaned out all his drawers (he used to be such a packrat). There's nothing other than his clothes left. Same with his car - it used to be a mess, within the last year he keeps it very clean. Now there's nothing even in the glove box. He never uses plastic - always cash, and throws out all receipts. I know no one he works with -I was friendly with one of his co-workers but H is no longer speaking to him for some reason.<P>This last year he used to leave the house after dinner every night and return about an hour or so later with the odd grocery item. . Since I've confronted him, that has stopped. But for months every night there was something he had to pick up. One odd thing comes to mind - he buys me cards (bday, holiday, etc.) weeks in advance and keeps it in his glove box.. I thought this was odd given that he has always been one to buy cards at the last minute. I don't know why this disturbs me, but it does. <P>He started working 7 days a week last year which he has also stopped (at my request). Before that he really begrudged it if I asked him to stay home at least one day a week. I never did see an extra penny of *his* money - in fact he doesn't want me seeing his paycheck. I have checked tho and he was at work during these times - except 1/2 - 1 hour every week -I don't know which day. He was still staying up til the wee hours every night (falling asleep on the sofa) until this week. I had asked him to come to bed early (10 oclock) for one week - he can watch tv on the set in our room. The first week, nothing changed. I asked again - he said he didn't remember me asking. Still nothing changed. During our bustup over the money I brought it out again (I wasn't polite this time). So now this week he has been coming to bed earlier (11 oclock), doesn't talk, says he's really tired, turns his back and hugs his side of the bed. <P>All these things plus the weight loss, buying new clothes, the infamous hidden sex pills, lack of interest in me - these aren't red flags - they're cropdusters dragging banners. But maybe I'm wrong?? He won't talk about it or give me any other reasons for any of these things, other than to say "why don't you trust me?" <BR>

Moira -- Don't feel like the Lone Ranger in not getting anywhere in two months. I won't go into detail here, but my situation is exactly the same as discovery day a week shy of 10 months ago.<P>I could have written most of your post. Your only hope really is Plan A for a while.<P>Don't feel your post is lame. What you are going thru is important to <B>you</B>. If I have time, I will try to think your situation thru a little more and maybe give you a better response.<P>Have you posted an e-mail address to the "E-MAIL EXCHANGE" topic?? I could give you more detail about how our situations are similar without boring everyone here who already knows it...<P>Hugs....<P>--DeWayne--

Hi moira, <P>Wow, are we married to the same man? except my H slips up on hiding receipts and hiding things from me...I'm pretty persistent in finding out what I feel I need to know. He thinks i'm a big snoop, but right now i don't care. <P>Going to a counselor is a great idea, even if he won't go with you. My H and I went to counseling together until I found out that the OW was still sleeping at his house, then he said counseling isn't doing anything to make OUR marriage BETTER so wasn't going to go antmore. I still go and am finding out how strong I am. We must be to be able to put up with some of this stuff! As I have said before, I never thought I had a problem with my self esteem, but how can you not suffer during a time like this? <P>My best to you.

I swear your husband is my husband's twin.<P>My first post was "Catch him? or I'm crazy..."<P>That was back in May 99. The best advice I ever have received - and I don't remember who it was who told me, was "decide if he is, and then decide what you will do about it."<P>Well, I decided he did. Right after I joined the forum. I started a "pre-disclosure plan A". I had accused and lovebusted up to that point to an unbearable level. He knew how to cover his tracks, and I was driving myself to a nervous breakdown trying to find out. I knew in my heart, and at that point that I decided, I knew what I was going to do about it.<P>I decided that - if I knew outright, what would I do differently than if I just knew inside.... And the difference was nothing. I was destroying my marriage by lovebusting. It was the best move that I made for myself, and for my marriage.<P>I had a "partial discovery" - Dec. 9th 99. Many months later. He said he had an "almost mistake" in 96. (yeah right, we both know there is more to that situation than he is saying, and I'm sure it wasn't the last.) <P>I keep praying and hoping for the truth, and I keep praying he is a truthful man. Little by little, more little bits of truth come out of his mouth. Yes, I still disrespect him incredibly - for his lack of integrity, character, and honesty - but it is coming.<P>Quit snooping after you decide, also. Why? It keeps you focusing on the snooping and lovebusting instead of trying to see what works and what doesn't in your plan A. <P>Do the best plan A you can, and put all your energy into analyzing what works and what doesn't. <P>I think it is very safe to say - that your husband is/did have an affair. <P>Trust your instincts, trust yourself. You are a trusting person. His lack of trustworthiness is not your problem. Don't focus on the trust. Focus on what works and what doesn't.<P>TNT

It sounds like he is doing some of the things you are asking, but only after some arm twisting. I was the same way. I felt like the only way I could get him to do anything, come to bed earlier, turn off his blasted cell phone and 'puter, help with the kids, etc. was to do some arm twisting.<P>You may get a bit of response, but it doesn't work over the long run. It certainly didn't for me. Harley lists it as a love buster - making selfish demands.<P>This plan A stuff is a complete change in you and I, regardless of what h does. I had to play with my mind - decided I would think of him as my son, whom I've always given so much to even when I get so little in return. Rather than asking him to spend more time, I would have to make it sooo pleasant for him. Before that our home was anything but peaceful or pleasant.<P>I was one of the fortunate. I only had to plan A about a month before he came clean and ended the EMA. But what a shock it was to learn the truth! I think you do need to know to move on, especially since you suspect anyway. I didn't even suspect. But you've already tried direct confrontation.<P>You have no idea what is going on in his mind. He may be scared to death to tell you, especially if it is over as you believe. My h read Recovering from An Affair by Harley on his own. It was only when he realized for himself that there was a way to get past this that he came clean.<P>Even if there is no EMA, he is not being totally open/honest by not talking. Have you read the book? Would he? You may be able to get him to if you're really doing plan A, but stay away from making demands. That was my big lb, his was being critical. Never, in all our years was he as critical as he was during those months. I think it may have been the guilt.<P>

Last night I asked my H if he wanted to go to a Valentine's Day dance that my compnay is sponsoring. No, he's not interested. Our youngest is going to a party tomorrow so we have the day free. I asked if he wanted to do anything. Again, nope. He is tired of me always "talking and asking him things" just be quiet and leave him alone. He said he hated coming home, hated walking in the door every night, knowing either I was there or would be home soon, he often wants to just keep driving. Does he think I don't hate it?? Never mind keep driving, sometimes I think of just running the car off the highway. <P>Rather than kill him flat out, I went upstairs to watch tv, but I swear there's an empty freezer in my garage with his name all over it!<P>I can tell its not going to be a pretty weekend. <BR>

Moira2<BR>I know that this is a very difficult situation. Before my h confessed to me, I was the lunatic that searched everything. I was also told that I was paranoid because nothing was going on(told this by h and ow who was my "friend"). I became very undesirable to be around. H didn't want to come home because I was on his case. This attitude only served to make the ow more attractive. I think that FHL advice to go into a predisclosure Plan A is great advise. Make yourself the best that you can be and fun to be around. I too went to counseling alone and invited h several times. Only after I told him that he couldn't go because it was for me to heal did he show any interest in it. He would never go, but at least we could discuss what I learned. Your h may or may not be having an affair. It could just be an emotional affair, which is by far as damaging. My h never slept with ow, but was in love with her and considered her his soal mate. Take Dr. Harley's emotional needs test. If your h won't actually take the test, you can probably figure out areas on your own that you need to improve. Don't look at your h unwillingness to do anything as a negative, look at it as an opportunity for you. This way you can measure his reaction to things you change. Some things will get great results, and some things need never to be done again. Good luck. Trust takes time and the feeling that your h will not hurt you.