I was really surprised late last week when I signed on the board and there was a post from my husband. I was a curious what kind of response he would get as I know his repentent sounding words are a Godsend to many of the betrayed. I appreciate the wise counsel so many of you gave him. And the support & protection you showed to me in your advice.<P>I've had too many trips on the roller coaster to readily believe him again.<P>Our counselor outlined our 4 basic options.<P>1) go for the marriage. I said no to that, I've done it. H was already supposed to be doing it but emailed OW Feb 2. This would be about the 4th time he's started or resumed the affair in 21 months<P>2) go on like we are, separated, but courting, dating. We've also done that several times. It isn't a bad thing, but we don't get anywhere new.<P>3) 2 weeks with no contact, other than kids, household.<P>4) divorce<P>We decided today to do #3. I suppose it is a trial Plan B...for which one of us, I'm not sure.<P>I'm not knocking Plan A. Certainly I've done it a long time and my H says it worked, he wants me, the kids & the marriage back.<P>But, FHL put it a wonderful way, she has looked on in horror as he has crushed my spirit.<P>Except my spirit isn't crushed, I just have lost interest in his games. Is my male friend a fantasy? All I know is he's a person that hasn't repeatedly ripped out my heart and I like to talk, and yes, flirt, with him. I don't believe he has a stranglehold on me, as Guard said. I know that the infidelity board is no place to defend an opposite sex friend. We all know that a friendship or working relationship can turn into an affair in the space of a heartbeat. And the betrayed are equally VULNERABLE, despite the pain we KNOW it causes.<P>The upshot is, Guard left me. I didn't choose separation any of the 7 times. This has all been forced on me. During his affair period of April 98-last week, I didn't go out to the bars or so much as have coffee with a man outside of work. I persevered as he started & stopped the affair 3+ times, I dealt with the STDs (a big DOH slap to the forehead there, watch out if you're having sex with a current betrayer). I don't feel he has any right, at this point, to say who I talk to, or when, but yet, I am married and I don't have the right to break my vows. I'm scared of divorce, not as much as I once was...but after all the time, patience, effort, love, the thought of divorce feels like failure. It is failure, yet it is also wisdom to not put yourself back into a situation that has unfailingly been hurtful.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)

Hi Lor<P>I can only give you my support, with whatever you decide. I, too, have been on the see-saw with my H. It's nice to have someone friendly to talk with and that makes you feel precious and cherished again...boy, have I missed that <P>People think I'm nuts for trying to live like I have. When my H was living with the OW (on and off for close to 4 yrs) I tried to go on with a 'normal' life. Tried dating and hated it because <B>I</B> felt guilty. Why? I don't really know because I certainly shouldn't have felt that way. Of course my H couldn't believe that I would date anyone (they can push your guilt buttons at will, can't they?) <P>If you feel that your H has <B>truly</B> turned the corner this time, please give it a chance - <B>for you</B>. I haven't given up yet because there are still times when I can see the H I knew and hope to find again. I think, from reading your posts to others, that you have a unique gift for giving compassion and you deserve to be cherished.<P>{{{{{<B>HUGS</B>}}}}}}}<P>Claire

It is sad sometimes when they finally figure out that they love you sooooo much, but it took so long....with so much pain and hurt....to get to this point. I feel for you both. I have not gotten to the point to talk to another man on a one to one basis. I talk to a few at work and one has even asked me out, but I just can't. I feel so weird when they ask me out....it is like I want to say...hey I'm married. But even though I am.....it will be over in about a month. I just don't know anymore. I wished I could just wave that magic wand and make everything all right for all of us. I am so wishy washy anymore....I feel like I am picking the petals off a daisy....I love him....I don't.....I love him...etc. But it always ends on I love him. I just need to face reality.....he isn't coming home.....our marriage is over......<BR>Nancy

Lor,<P>I have only been here a few weeks, but I am watching your story. I feel your pain that you express, as if it were me talking. It hurts SO bad to be betrayed, to be pushed aside for another woman to take first place in H life. To have a life you thought was just fine and then BOOM , its over as you knew it and never the same again. I can't imagine being where you are today.<P>I do understand where you are coming from,in a sense, when you meet someone new, that is nice to you, after you have been discarded for so long, it is very easy to enjoy it. You feel wanted and human again. It is a feeling you haven't had for a long time. I had that feeling last week. I hope I have it again, preferably with H, but I will not put my life on hold for any longer than 6 months from XMAS before I must move on. I can't even make that committment. I just can't. Ten years, for me is a long time. And if my H can up and throw me out, than I will not spend another 2.5 waiting around for him.<P>I truly hope that you can repair your marriage, hard as it may be . I must say Guards' description of the "other side" was a help to me. And he had a lot of guts to share it with me. I hate to hear that any marriage end, it breaks me down once more. All I once lived for, is over, and others are in my shoes too. I hate it. <P>Good luck and take it one day at a time. Without offending other men on the forum, I dated 3 guys when me and H broke up 5 years ago. Back then we were not married. You know what I learned, (again no offense to men) but in the beginning they were all kind and sweet, THEN ... Dr Jekyl and MR Hide, they are all alike in many many ways. Thats when I truly was able to go to BF/H and know I could love him again. Be careful, new is fun, exciting and intoxicating. But know them well before you decide. I am still hoping there are some decent men out there that would NEVER cheat. Maybe thats my fantasy.<P>Prayers are with you both.

Hi Lor,<P> I've always followed your story...you are an amazing woman...the bottom line is you don't trust your H and have no reason to ....he has repeatly hurt you ...what would be different about "this time"? You have your defenses up for good reason...good luck to you, you deserve more (IMHO).......LU

RCoaster, Mental, Lonelymom & Lu--thank you all for your understanding and sharing a bit of your stories as well.<P>We started the 2 weeks yesterday pm--but have a date (V-day as everybody knows) tonight with some friends for a beer. I also have a child home sick today, so I emailed him. This is why I failed at Plan B. Can't say no to him (I'm trying!) and the kids are a constant in bringing us together. Honestly, part of me says "go for the marriage" another part says "what are you, nuts? Glutton for punishement, etc." and so it goes...

Lor,<P>Just wanted you to know that I'm almost exactly where you are, and that I understand you pain...<P>That's all... and sometimes it's enough, isn't it? Just for a little while, anyway!<P>~Sheryl

Hi Lor,<P>Just a brief post... wanted you to know that you and Guard are both in our thoughts.<P>Gawd, seeing you two post brings back vivid memories! When Suse and I first started counselling wayyyyyyyyy long ago, we were at the point where we weren't sure we liked each other. Or even respected each other. Unbeknownst to me at the time, Suse was headlong into an affair and had basically quit on our marriage.<P>Except for one thing: out of a sense of duty/honor, she decided she'd better go to counselling. Know what? Strangely, it started a process for us that not only kept us together but eventually led to the wonderful relationship we have today.<P>Oh, it felt soooooooo awful at times! We both had moments where we were sick. Literally. Yep, I remember.<P>I know your H has played mind games with you before. I know you're running out of patience. Can you hang in there a little longer to see what happens? Is this the time when he FINALLY re-commits to you? What if he's made that commitment and you don't hang around this time?<P>Food for thought. And Guard...if you're reading... yes, she's reeeeel low on tolerance for shenanigans right now. DON't mess this up. You may not get "one last chance" after this.<P>Good luck.<BR>Hang in there.

Dear Lor,<P>I'm sure you guys need to take it slow. But don't lose sight of your commitment. Your marriage is permanent. Don't let your heart be hardened. Why, after all that hard work, would you consider quitting now? The glutton for punishment seems to be the part of you that wants to stay in this mess of "do I want to or do I not want to". This isn't about what you want, Lor.<P>This is about commitment. This is about marriage. God would NEVER choose divorce. He would ALWAYS choose reconcilliation.<P>When I suggested that you go to plan B a few weeks back, when he was writing the OW an email, I wasn't suggesting it to have you get even, get a rise, or anything like that. I could see that it was more than you could take, to go on, being lied to, watching your love die. There is nothing worse than hanging on to a commitment because that is right, when you certainly don't feel like it. And that is what he helped you feel like, with his latest goof up. But you gotta hang in there, Lor. You gotta do what you know is right.<P>Put your feelings aside, and ask yourself what kind of God do we serve. We serve a God that requires us to do a 70x7 forgiveness thing. I know, you don't feel like forgiving. Well, it isn't about how you feel, it is about doing sometimes what you know is right.<P>Do you think your husband "felt" like giving up OW to save his marriage? Heck no, he didn't want to. But how many times did he try? He tried, even though the temptation was so great. He tried many many times, Lor. He tried because, yes, there was a glimmer of love in there, but he tried mostly because of commitment. That sounds weird, me advocating for the betrayed.<P>But, you know, you gotta give him a little credit here. How many times did we pray? And now God is giving you what you asked for. Now, this is the real test. This is the test, to find out if you really wanted it to begin with.<P>Sorry to get tough with you, but we aren't talking about how you feel about me, we are talking about what is right, what is wrong, and your marriage, that GOD wants to see restored.<P>TNT

Hi guys, Have you ever seen the movie DEATH BECOMES HER with Goldie Hawn & Meryl Streep. Goldie gets a hole the size of a cannon ball through her midsection. That's the way I feel. I feel like a one of those big rotating floor sanders went through my chest and there is just nothing there.<P>NB-it is tough. I know you're going through it as well.<P>DuncanMac--I remember posting to Suse last year when you guys first came to MB. The roots of our troubles go back nearly as far as yours. Thanks for corresponding with Guard, I know he feels like he doesn't have a friend in the world. He & I have always been good friends, even through a lot of this.<P>TNT--ouch. And you're right. Thank you. I have gone back to the scriptures that shaped my view toward my marriage, they've always spoken to me of staying at the point of reconciliation. Now I am seeing "If he leaves, let him leave." Well, he left. I'm struggling to know what is right.

Lor,<P>I just saw the number 7007 on number of posts on this forum. I thought, gee 70x7.... Lor.<P>I went into the forum, and picked up the 7007th post. Who's post was it? LOR, it was your post on guard's thread.<P>Okay, I don't know if this is significant or not, but I do know that the number 7 is significant, it means holy... and 7x70 is endless forgiveness, complete, and whatever it takes to do it.<P>I hope this was as significant to you as it was to me.<P>TNT

TNT,<BR>D'ya KNOW how many times that 70 X 7 has come up for me in the past years? UGH!!!!! The other verse is "I will restore the years that the locust has stolen" from somewhere in Joel. <P>I do/will/am forgiving Guard. I know you stayed with your H through some physical violence, and I don't think I would have in your shoes. But I'm not in your shoes. (I'm wearing some lovely Dr. Scholl's black suede today, how about you ?) My sense of humor, such as it is, is trying to surface...<P>As you said before, God would choose reconciliation...but always before I have felt/known God was holding me to my marriage. Through his scriptural provisions, he has given me a release, and I have to choose. There's that dratted free will...<P>And even though the words "I need space" cause most of us to cringe, I need some time. I told the counselor I'd like to go for a sabbatical to a monastery to read and pray...although a Mexican beach sounds nice too. It's the same old struggle.

Lor,<BR>I have followed your story on and off and have been amazed at the patience you have had with your h. Also been heartbroke at the pain you have been put through. I know that right now you are very vulnerable. Please understand that this post comes in love. You need to stop contact with this male friend of yours. You know the ropes. Your emotions are wide open to the strokes he is giving you. I have no doubt that being with him makes you feel good and being with your h makes you feel like murder You have already given up so much, I hate to be the person to write this. There are huge dangers in a relationship with any person of the opposite sex. My case is a huge example. My h had an emotional affair with my best friend. He started having coffee with her just because she was easy to talk to and fun to be around. We were starting to go through the process to build our house and that was his way of avoiding any conflict. She was not demanding in any way, just there to support him. Between the two of them, I became this overbearing demanding person that was just pushing too hard. When you get compassion and comfort from another person, soon your lovebank is overflowing for them. It's amazing, I have not really changed that much, but to my h I have changed mountains. i think a lot of it is due to the fact that she is no longer pointing out all of my shortcomings and steeling all of the time that he would use to spend with me. If you spend the time that your marriage is going to need with your h, you won't have time for this friendship. I know you don't want to spend time with your h now. That is when Dr. Harley tells us to spend more time with them!! <P>You are a great woman that has traveled a long path. You can keep going. Another piece of wise advice that Dr. Harley imparts, if you do go to Plan B is to at all times remember to act like you are married. You can do this. No doubt h lovebank is overdrawan. My prayer is that he will make many deposits quickly.<P>Love and prayers!

Derby,<BR>I take your words in the spirit they are intended and you said them very gently. <P>Part of my struggle is that I gave up this friendship in November, as Guard asked me to the last time he moved home. It was & wasn't difficult, the man was gone out of the country for a couple weeks. I gave up the friendship, Guard dumped me for the 7th time...I know this is one of my sticking points. During the 5 weeks Guard was home for the holidays I did have a couple phone calls & joke/story type emails, but the emphasis was that I was married. When Guard moved out on a Thurs, came home the next day and I said it was the absolute last chance...he moved out again on Sun...I called my friend on Mon. And for the record, I don't count Thurs & Sun as 2 separate times, they are both #7.<P>I can feel the anger boil as I write this. Yesterday afternoon, after Guard had checked the redial & last call on my work phone, he threatened my future involvement with my children, who would be allowed in my home and who would not. These are the children he has left all these times while he went out to play with a flooze. Sure, yesterday he was upset...but I saw the same self-concerned man that did all this to me. And I'm not having an affair. I do recognize the line I am walking, but I am not over the line.<p>[This message has been edited by Lor (Lor) (edited February 16, 2000).]

Hey Lor,<P>I have never responded to you before, but like most people here I feel that I know you because of knowing about your situation. I responded to Guard on his post, and tried to give some advice from a betrayed's viewpoint.<P>I never responded to you before because I was so in awe of you and the strength you showed in dealing with a situation far worse than mine has been. I know that I could never have held on as long as you did.<P>Let me say that I realize that this is a site to save marriages, but it is also a site to save married individuals. While you are one-half of a marriage, you are also a person with wants, needs, and feelings. You have been through so much more than many of us could ever imagine.<P>From reading Guard's posts, I got the feeling that he thought you would always be there, waiting with open arms if he decided to come back to you, even it it was very temporary. Now that you seem to be going on with your life without him being the center of it, he wants you back. But does he want you back with a total committment from both of you or back to the way things were? There's a big difference.<P>Only you know what is in your heart and how much more of this life you can bear. I am very disappointed to hear that he made threats about your relationship with your children and tried to place demands on you and limits on your lifestyle. Hopefully, he will realize that kind of behavior is very counterproductive to the healing process.<P>My wish for you is to find peace and happiness. Perhaps that will be with Guard in the kind of marriage that you want and deserve. Perhaps it will be without that marriage. You must do what is best for you, and none of us here know your situation as well as you do. I hate to say this here, but not all marriages can be saved, and some shouldn't be.<P>Whatever happens with your marriage, you and Guard will always have a relationship because of your past together and the children that you share. I hope it will be a good one, for all your sakes.<P>Whatever happens, we will be here for you and Guard, to support you in your choices and listen, advise, and pray.<P>Wishing you all the best,<P>Peppermint

Lor,<BR>Don't have much to add other than I was really glad to see Guard finally post here.<P>I don't really know what to make of it......but... my thoughts are with you just the same !<P>-Tina

Lor,<BR>I see your h as a man that had to actually "lose" you before he realized what he had. You do need to protect yourself greatly here from h and from friend. Who knows what your h will be able to follow through with. I feel for you! Your h needs some definite boundaries to follow so set them wisely! Good luck in your long road ahead of you. However this all turns out, you have gained much strength of character down the long road you have followed.<P>Best of luck. Turn to God on the days that you cannot go on. He will carry you the rest of the path

To Lor,<P>Just wanted to let you know I am watching your story and you and Guard are in my prayers. Hoping for the best for both of you. <P>I know that you have put a lot of effort into saving your marriage. You show a lot of perserverance and strength. I am in a spot in my life where I wonder, is this right? Should I stay and fight for someone who wants no part in me?? Or should I just give up and move on. I imagine, that you are not giving up, just confused right now. I know I will never last as long as you did. I can't do it. I wish I knew your story from before, but I don't. It sounds as if it was painful though.<P>I wonder if as painful as mine, h leaving on xmas, move with ow, force my kids to be with her, file for divorce on vday, it gets worse every day, I fear getting up each morning because I wonder what part of my dignity will be ripped from me today? <P>Even though I don't know the extent of Guards' betrayal, it does sound painful. I am glad he has noticed what he has done. I hope my H will do the same one day. Both of you are in my prayers.<P>

He's not even trying with the no contact. I went to half of his counselling appt today, half so that the counselor could talk man to man to Guard and then to us, then he sent Guard away and talked to me. I got a scolding, well enough deserved, for my male friend. And the advice that I need to process the pain and anger because he sees it eating me up. And it is definitely not the time for Guard to be coming home and to be strong as he tries many avenues to start living in the house. I know "no contact" isn't the solution to our situation, but he's bombarding me everytime I see him with painful reminders--which he sometimes doesn't have a clue about since he has the Affair Magic Memory Loss. I feel like the memeories are carved into every part of my brain, heart and skin.<P>Peppermint--thank you for your kind words. You don't know that you couldn't do what I have done...I just tried to stay at the point where reconciliation was possible, at least until the last several weeks. I know Guard and I will always be joined over the kids. That is definitely one of the things that has kept me going. He knows he made a mistake in bringing up what I may do in the future with the kids. He was angry and we both know where each other's hot buttons are.<P>Tina--I'm in the middle of it and cause for half of it and I don't know what to make of it. <P>Lonelymom--as hard as it is for you? Okay, you be the judge...he left me the first time the day after our oldest's 13 birthday, Aug 6, 1998, the 2nd time the day before New Year's, almost left me on my birthday and Valentines, but didn't. The 3rd time was Easter weekend, Mother's Day was ugly, left me right before Memorial weekend. The 4th of July was kind of nice . He moved out the next time right before his birthday, July 99...asked me for a divorce right around Labor Day, but didn't move out for another month...and this time there wasn't a holiday, but we had planned to go to St. Louis to watch the Rams in the playoffs, and even though we separated, he wanted to go, but I thought it would be too painful.<P>Yeah, I think he's hit most of the major holidays with either misery or separation. There are reasons I hesitate/refuse to wholeheartedly give him another chance. However, he never actually moved in with OW and so far hasn't filed for divorce. I guess comparing our situations is like death by stroke or death by lingering cancer (and our miracle drugs are Plan A & B & no LBs)<P>

Lor,<P>Thank you for the brief update, you are like me, a woman never forgets a date! (Men hate that about us! )<P>I feel your pain in all your posts and know you are still hurting. Were you OK with the counselor "talking" to you about your situation. I am not saying that two wrongs don't make a right, all I am saying is in all fairness you endured it for a while, maybe you need some space too. You probably know what the counselor is saying but this is something you will have to be totally confident on if you go in any direction. <P>I would think people smothering you, rushing you, or any of that would only make it harder on you . (wish I knew that before I did all that to my H).<P>I can't imagine this for 2 years, don't want to either. You are a good woman and are in my prayers. <P>