Does there have to be sexual intercourse in a relationship in order to be called an affair? That is the way my husband is ducking the gun on responsibility in this issue. They bowled, watched movies together, went swimming, swinging in the park, etc....... All behind my back and lied about where he was. He would intentionally start a fight so I would go to my parents and he would be alone to do what he wanted. <P>I feel so hurt and betrayed about the violation of trust and security. Am I wrong to be so hurt? He says the relationship was never physical, but I'm not sure if he is telling me the truth. <P>He even went as far as to get another co-worker fired because she was "spreading rumors" about them and he basically demanded to his boss that it was "her or me". Of course, given the fact that she was only an aid and he was an instructor, they fired her. <P>The counselor we went to is a real quack and he agreed with the fact that it was an affair at first, but by the last session he referred to it as a "friendship". That affirmed my H all he needed. <P>

Get another counselor !<P>It is called an emotional affair ! My h has had quite a few of those, along with a couple of full blown affairs.<P>If it is just a friendship there is no reason for the lies and the sneaking around.<P>Someone will be along soon I am sure to provide you with links to more information on this site (NSR, don't you love the way I volunteered you ?). <P>I am not very good on computer or would try to do it myself.<P>I suggest you read everything on this site that you can, and read the boards, and POST< POST alot. It helps to know you aren't alone in this mess.<P>------------------<BR>Just call me - Deb<BR>------------------------<BR>The only day I can do anything about is today, yesterday is gone, tomorrow is not yet mine.<P>

desparate - WOW - this is going to be very hard for me to say because it sort of goes towards the situation I found myself in. <P>I won't bore you with the details of my situation, but I did have an emotional relationship with a woman online when I was very depressed and didn't feel I loved anyone or anything anymore. My wife discovered it - I really wasn't even hiding it :-(. <P>I came to terms with the fact that what I had doen was betrayed my wife and her security and trust by involving another female into my life like that.<P>After this happened, I thought I had the boundaries set and began a good friendship with 2 people I played games with - they were both quite "taken" with eahc other, and I became friends with them both (one female) - we began calling each other sis and bro and eventually even soulsis and soulbro (with all 3 of us) - I never tried to hide any of this from my wife, but when she noticed the responses on e-mail one day, she became very upset. Some of it definitely related back to the first incident and dropped all the trust I had been rebuilding.<P>We are still working on things, and still disagree somewhat on my ideas of what a "friend" is - I never felt romantic or anything with this 2nd female, and did not speak of my marriage with her - I spoke of my wife always in good terms. She and I did however provide occassional emotional support for each other - especially when she was having a hard time in RL.<P>Looking back at all this, even though I still disagree that I had an emotional affair with her, I do see how the path I was going down could have lead to something, and I know that I should not have allowed it to progress to me providing support - it is hard though - it is in my nature - it is hard to control and not to care abou how people feel - I am an empathisizer :-(.<P>Well - that wasn't very short was it?? :-P<P>All-in-all, I have discovered and more importantly can "feel" that as a married couple it is important to share recreation, communication, emotional support etc... with your spouse first - all others second. The fact that your H did these things with this other person behind your back and lied about it along the way means it IS an affair!!! Most importantly, I have realized that no matter what I think I did, if it hurts my spouse and I value her feelings and respect her, I owe it to her to work on the problem as a couple - not to blame the feelings on her - the fault is never one sided!!<P>Your H did something wrong, and the counselor is an [censored] for backing down on the "affair" title just because they did not have physical sex (although who knows??). You are right - he just got a great big affirmation from a "doctor" who says what he did is OK - that sucks big time!!!<P>You are not wrong for feeling the way you do here Devastated - not at all - if you are questioning your feelings, don't - they are perfectly natural, and had you been doing the same things with another man and lieing and sneaking around behind your H's back, it is likely he would be just as upset as you are.<P>Best Wishes - Be Strong!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Does there have to be sexual intercourse in a relationship in order to be called an affair? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The answer is NO<P>My H (husband) has been involved in an EA (emotional affair) for several years. H won't admit there is anything improper about the "friendship". <P>It is just as devastating as a physical affair. <P>Keo<P><BR>

My H has also admitted to being sexually attracted to this bimbo.

The quack is not a doctor either. In Idaho they don't even have to be certified. Just have a degree.

One more comment...<P>My H has admitted to "trashing" the marriage to this Bimbo and telling her that it was over (although I thought everything was ok at the time). He lied to her about everything and made me look like a @#$%^! <P>Who knows what else was said, but he totally betrayed me and our marriage.

Drawing another one of our varied experiences out of the hat to share with you...<P>This one occurred while H and I were dating seriously. We were both online addicts, to the point of even meeting other local onliners for regular get-togethers. ANYway, H had an online friendship with a woman unknown to me, and began to vent with her whenever we had problems...I didn't realize I was the subject of many of their conversations in an adverse way, OR that there were THAT many conversations! One evening, I was over at his house awaiting his arrival home from work, and sat down to idly read through his chatlogs. We often read each other's logs but he obviously had not been prepared for me to read these! <P>I sat there in shock and hurt, reading how angry he was with me over certain situations, how he was considering breaking up with me because I was such a [insert several choice expletives], and she was agreeing. When H came home, I was still staring at the screen. I finally asked him who this person was, and he told me it was his sister! Duh. I fell for it. I felt I couldn't complain about him venting to family (and I suppose he hoped I'd feel that way). Imagine my fury when I got home and pulled up the aol profile...hmm, she lives in a town 30 miles away and his sisters live 800 miles away? Several arguments and lovebusters later by both of us, I figured it out. I was angry over something I COULD control...it was all a matter of being pleasant and in control of myself! I had to just let it go. Yes, he lied to me and he was smack dab in the beginnings of an emotional affair. But if I wanted to CHANGE that, I had to stop making him suffer for it. I was just pushing him toward her even more. I quit making any references to it and I did not demand that he stop talking to her. I paid attention to his needs and incorporated them better into our time together. It worked. As he began to feel more comfortable with me again, his need to talk to her lessened and stopped altogether.<P>Find an unbiased counselor who has both your needs in the forefront. Don't lovebust. Make your time together enjoyable--save the disagreements for designated times. Read EVERYTHING you can at this site. There's hidden gold here. Once your communication skills improve, I think you'll be able to both express your feelings, and reach a common goal--happiness.<P>Best wishes.

Your husband is having an emotional affair and don't let anyone tell you other wise. My H had an emotional affair. Like many men that do this he denied that he was doing anything wrong. Swore she was just a friend blah, blah, blah.<P>He refered to her as his "best friend" and I belive his lie about the emotional depth of his feelings for her was so complete that he believed it himself.<P>It was so hard to confront him since it was not physical. I finally explained to him in a counceling session that he was breaking the vows of our marriage by continuing his relationship with her. That he may not be sharing himslef with her physically but he was sharing himslef with her emotionally while he was with holding himslef from me. <P>And like your H, he lied about spending time with her to me in order to continue to build the relationship.<P>What yor husband is doing is wrong. It sounds like you have made it clear to him that this relationship with OW hurts you and yet he continues it. That's just disrespectful. If you want a written definiton of an affair I think there is one early on in Dr. Harley's book Surviving an Affair and it does include non-physical relationships. Your H has broken your trust. That is very serious. GET A NEW COUNCELOR! You can even schedule a call with Dr. Harley if you like.<P>Here is another idea. You can search this site for posts on EA's. Look up at the top right section of this page. Read all you can and print a few choice ones for your H to read. Start building some evidnce for him that what he is doing is wrong.<P>Hope this helps. You are not alone. There are lots of us here. This board is full of amazing people who can offer you incredible and support. Welcome aboard.<P>Acacia<P>

Lucks is right on the money here.<P>In our society, we don't seem to regard ANYTHING that doesn't involve the old in-out, in-out as an affair. But as we all know, those ol' "inappropriate friendships" can wreak just as much havoc on a marriage.<P>The problem is that when there's no proof of a physical affair, even the person involved can delude him/herself that it's not an affair, it's just a friendship. I think many people (my H included) get involved in these things and have no idea how dangerous they are. And when you as the spouse say something, they feel perfectly justified in their righteous indignation because they haven't had intercourse-sex with that person, regardless of what else might be going on.<P>Even in a divorce court, such things don't qualify as adultery?<P>So what can you do? Well, not much. The only thing you really can do is to try to determine what need in your spouse the other person is filling, and fill that one yourself. One of the "Questions of the week" on the <A HREF="http://www.vaughan-vaughan.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.vaughan-vaughan.com/</A> site said that, and I found that to be right on the money.<P>Now, you might not get a termination of the friendship. I don't think I have, and as a result, I feel constantly threatened. But you can get an improved marriage and a lessening of the dependency on the outside party, as Lucks has demonstrated.<P>I think it's important in these situations that we take a good look at ourselves and see what role we've played in our spouse's needing to look elsewhere. Doesn't mean we're "to blame," just means we've fallen down on the job a bit and our spouses are too weak to resist, and not insightful enough to see what's going on.<P>At the very least, if the worst happens, you'll know what you did to fix things and you'll have a clear conscience.<P>As for "desperate in Idaho," well, what you describe your H and his "friend" doing together means your H obviously has some unmet recreational needs. Read Harley's stuff on this, because it's important to men. That was the area that I worked on the most and that helped me the most.<P>Good luck.

You don't have to lie about your whereabouts when you are with a friend. He lied, snuck around, betrayed your trust in him, then obviously it was more than a freindship. Yes it is also an affair, when spouses start to lie. They can try to say it was to spare from hurting you, but it is called SELF PRESERVATION, to protect ONLY THEMSELVES.

It was an affair. My husband swears there was nothing physical going on so he fled to anther state everyweekend for 5 months under the pretense of spending time with his parents, and he was running to her everytime, his parents would have her waiting in their home for him. It doesn't even matter if there was sex, betrayal is betrayal and it is jst as painful. He was shareing his emotions and feelings with her and not me, at the end they decided to start a relationship and he was going to leave me.You see that is how the other person gets into their hearts, and once they're there is very hard to get them out, that is the battle I'm going through now, he doesn't see me as his spouse anymore, but he has started to see me as his friend again, he doesn't share his deepest emotional; thoughts yet and won't dicuss with me his feeelings on our marriage yet, but I'm learning too a new cocept, it is called patience and maybe time does cure all wounds. I'm working on plan a but sometimes I want so badly ust for him to hold me again I slip, so keep us in your prayers too.

desperate:<P>No. Physicality isn't what dictates the definition of an affair. No, you are not wrong to feel hurt that your H would lie about where he was or who he was with (even if there wasn't sex involved). You are not wrong to feel hurt that he would rather spend time with some other woman than with you. The bonds of an emotional affair are VERY strong (I know...the betrayal of my husband started with an online EA before culminating in a PA over one weekend). In my case, the emotional bonds to this other man were strong enough that I was obsessed with becoming close to him physically. All I could think about was how could I get CLOSER to this man.<P>So, YES, it is wrong for your husband to sneak around behind your back to frolic with <BR>some other woman regardless of whether it's physical or not (yet).<P>Get another counselor.<P>Don't second guess yourself (like I do many times <P>Hang in there...<P>Love,<P>Jill<P>

Desperate,<BR> There does NOT have to be sexual intercourse to have an affair. An emotional affais is just as real & damaging as a physical affair. Maybe more so, bc emotions are hard to shut off. My H had an EA w/a coworker 10 years his junior. It started out inconnectly enought then just evolded to the point my h asked for a seperation hoping he could start SOMETHING w/her. She turned him down, thank goodness but the hurt, pain & baggage is still there. In the very least your h's relationship w/the ow is a very inappropriate friendship. I would not threaten him but i would voice strongly my opposition to there "relationship". For me 15 months after discovery & I still have some very bad days. Just try to keep the lines of communication open & good luck.<P>Keepin the Faith,<BR>Cassie

They said a mouthful when they said YOU DON'T HAVE TO LIE WHEN YOUR JUST WITH A FRIEND. Lies...it's what it's all about. To tell the truth, knowing that he was her close friend is harder than acknowledging the sex. FRIENDS ALSO DON'T BASH EACH OTHER'S SPOUSES. If they are not willing to be both of your friends then they are indeed no friend. There is no such thing as just an emotional affair. It hurts just as much, if not more. Talk to him about this, you BE his friend. Much luck to you.<P>------------------<BR>

Thank you so much for your replies! It helps a lot!!!

<BR>Desperate,<P>Your husband is in an emotional affair. There are sex differences you should know about: On average, men are more distressed by sexual infidelity than emotional infidelity, whereas women are more distressed by emotional infidelity than sexual infidelity. I've got some ideas why this is the case (and I've posted them here before), but there are a couple of upshots of this. The first is that your husband, even if he were to admit what he's doing is an affair, would see it as less an offense than if he had sex with this OW. More than likely, he believes its not really an affair as long as sex isn't involved.<P>The second point is related to the first. The fact is, when your husband essentially denies that he's in an affair, it can be very corrosive to your marriage. You're left dealing with the hurt, anger, and rejection, while the whole time he's denying that its even an affair. And counselors notwithstanding, he's probably telling his friends and family that this OW is "just a friend of mine." The sad part is, he may actually believe it.<P>I agree with the other posters. You need a different counselor, and you need to figure out what your husband sees in this OW, and start meeting those needs yourself.<P>Bystander

My W had an E.A., but there was some physical stuff too, kissing, french of course! They talked ( the OM's questions) about sex alot, she told me all the questions he asked her, holy smokes! I believe I caught it just weeks before he beat down her defenses to get her into bed, he made it plain that that was his goal, she told me, but she thought that she could withstand the pressure, after all all she wanted was her Emotional needs to be met, I admit I was really being a jerk during this time setting her up for a fall, but we all make choices. Here is something That I got just today from <A HREF="http://www.Familylife.com" TARGET=_blank>www.Familylife.com</A> <BR>great web site for marriage and family stuff.<BR> <BR>The following was cut & pasted from their daily devotional emailings. <BR>...<BR>In particular, many<BR>married people don't understand that a chemical reaction can occur with people<BR>other than their mates. Don't misunderstand me here-I'm not just talking about<BR>sexual attraction. I'm referring to a reaction of two hearts, the chemistry of<BR>two souls.<P>This is emotional adultery-an intimacy with the opposite sex outside the<BR>marriage. Emotional adultery is unfaithfulness of the heart. When two people<BR>begin talking of intimate struggles, doubts or feelings, they may be sharing<BR>their souls in a way that God intended exclusively for the marriage<BR>relationship. Emotional adultery is friendship with the opposite sex that has<BR>progressed too far.<P>Often it begins as a casual relationship at work, school or even church. A<BR>husband talks with a female co-worker over coffee and shares some struggles<BR>he's facing with his wife or kids. She tells of similar problems, and soon the<BR>emotions ricochet so rapidly that their hearts ignite and can ultimately become<BR>fused together as one. To those who have experienced it, this catalytic<BR>"bonding" seems too real to deny.<BR>....end<BR> <P>------------------<BR>jnvc