David & Sheryl -- We have had this conversation already, a few months ago. Remember?<P>You both profess to want the same thing. Yet, IMHO, you both a very strong minded (read as pig headed if you like ) When one of you is hurt or offended by something, anything that the other says, you attack rather than try to understand a little better.<P>You guys are not only in the same book, but you are also on the same page. You need to find a way to communicate with each other. To really hear what the other is saying. To try and understand each other.<P>I know you guys love each other. I know you have hurt each other. Heck, we have all done that with our respective spouses or we wouldn't be here in the first place.<P>Marriage in general, and probably more so when infidelity is involved, is an ongoing lesson at communication and meeting each others needs. This can be hard enough under the best of situations. . .<P>David, I for one am glad to see you back here. I understand the termoil that you are going through, just a well as I understand the termoil Sheryl is going through. This is pure heck on everyone.<P> That's twice I said heck now. I'm trying to be politically correct. Is it working <P>Listen guys. . .We all love you here. We all know and understand what you have gone through. We all want to help.<P>My thoughts and prayers continue to reach out to you.<P>God Bless

Hey everyone!<P>Now I know how to separate lines at least and maybe to write paragraphs soon.<BR>Wish to thank you for your support and kindness.<BR>Bill-I'm sorry but I dont know poja,the 4 rules and lb and en ?aire.Also and forgive me but I dont know esoteric.<BR>Empty shell-I appreciate heck. Didn't understand imho though maybe not important, but anything you offer is good-thank you.<BR>Sheba-yes it has been a ping-pong match at many times and I regret the damage it caused.<BR>Kam-I feel time apart to rebuild ourselves only bring lonliness and then she finds flirting and ? fun, maybe just to be noticed but not very helpful.<P>oops I just realized I could have separated into sentences by double enter,sorry.<P>professorg-I feel for each of us who have loved and lost,my deepest regard and hope for strenght to find you. She was the most wonderful that found me and now I really dont know her anymore,what a waste!<P>Pilots wife-unfortunately she dislikes my communication style and calls it annoying and verbose and I found this word in dictionary and found it amusing. The dance has been painful to the toes and she WONT plan A. Please understand even though it goes against maybe popular belief, I wasn't being retalitory,just lonley,confused,and stupid!<BR>Yes, unconditional love is best and boy it would be great to not be so human so often.<P>Finally, we ran through the same patterns today and she does not want to stay together. We went out to pay a bill and then drove to play pool with no bad talk. This was good.<BR>We came home and she thought we could be intimate and I felt this would only confuse me if we are not going to try to reconcile. She wants to just be friendly and not married. So why would we get passionate if I can't have my heart involved, I cant-just cant. I want to give my heart,my passion,my being as if it meaning were to peirce the veil of love and give chase to a racing soul. <P>enough fun, thank you for being there. I realize how this will end and its sad.<P>David

David,<P>I find it hard to believe that you have been comming to these boards since what July, and you haven't even read through the basic concepts. POJA, LB. EN, are the basic principles. I put those as hyper links. Sipmly click each one, and it will take you to the afformentioned page.<P>Esoteric, verbose, whatever you want to call it it is damn confuseing and easily misconstrued. Try using the most rudimentary forms of comunication, it simplifies things.<P>I do wish you two the very best and am convinved that if you each let your walls of stubbornness down you can have a great marriage.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

3wishes--<P>Stop! Do not pass "go," do not collect $200!! <P>Read all the valuable information here, starting the Dr. Harley's Concepts.<P>If someone wants to make a cake, they need a recipe first, right? You need a plan before you can find the solution. <P>It is my feeling that both of you DO love each other; you're just trapped in the pain of infidelity and miscommunications. You CAN do this!! <P>Intelligent people tend to over-analyze everything. What you seek is right there, hidden within the verbosity of pain. Get it all out. Vent here. And be good to each other in the interim while you find each other again. And...yourselves.<P>I think it's wonderful that you're both posting.

3Wishes,<P>I have only been here myself a few months, so I don't know really any of the situation but from this post, but I am here to offer some support.<P>You obviously are a very deep person by the way you express your feelings. I myself, don't have a problem reading them because I am much like that too. I do make an effort at all times to organize my thoughts on the forum, cause all of us here, are already dealing with only half of our mind at one time or another.<P>From what I see by you and your wife, you OBVIOUSLY both love each other. How can you not be "in love". Your Wife has said some nice comments about you. My meaning of the love and in love , is that yes you love each other, but don't have that burning romantic passion as in the beginning? We all lose that at some point.<P>You two can get that back. If you love your wife, than don't give up. Fight for her. The two of you can learn to rebuild your marriage again and make it stronger and better. <P>As far as I am reading on your post, and that of others, the married couples that post here, offer a great deal of support and insight to those of us searching for answers. We can see this whole thing from both sides, through couples like yourself.<P>I doubt anyone will ever be "poisoned" against anyone here on the site, we are just all poisoned against our betrayer and at one point, if someone says the same hurtful thing that our betrayer said to us, we might lash out. <P>My prayers and support are with you BOTH and it does sound like there is hope here. I don't know much about the OM, who is being described here as a friend only, but I will watch for your W post more, so I can be more informed next time.<P>Good luck, Dana<BR>

More quick thoughts...<P>In thinking about the other evening you described, I have a proposition for you both. Will you both promise to try again, without expressing a desire to leave or divorce? Set a time frame if you wish. After all, this is a pretty important decision affecting the rest of your lives. <P>My take on what happened: you spent a pleasant evening together. You played pool then came home. It was certainly pleasant enough for your W to feel close to you (some of her emotional needs were fulfilled by your evening), and she wanted physical intimacy. And you probably WISHED you felt the same closeness, but didn't, in fear and hopelessness, because your W expresses her desire to end the relationship. <P>Catch-22. You withdraw, HER hopelessness kicks in. <P>So how about a pact. No talk of leaving each other. Commit to REALLY trying to work this out. Each day, think of things you BOTH can do, for each other, to build up your love banks. Be completely GIVING, and don't fear non-reciprocation; after all, you both will be promising to BE giving. That way, your "inner-takers" will also be satisfied. Be patient with each other. THANK each other. Touch each other.<P>And remember, you both have felt the pain of betrayer AND betrayee. Use that as a POSITIVE. What insight you both share into each other. NO ONE else understands each other, the way you do. <P>I hope my ramblings have helped even a little.<p>[This message has been edited by Lucks (edited March 11, 2000).]