I finally gave in and saw a doctor the other day, he gave me Paxil. I feel much better, much less anxious. I told him what I had been through, he was very sympathetic. He had gone through a divorce several years ago and told me it would take about 5 years for me to be completely over it. My question is, why is it so easy for the betrayer? My ex is having the time of his life, so much in love, blending the fantasy family, no sign of remorse even for the kids. He spends so much more time with the OW's son than he does his own. Why don't they feel the loss? After all, they have lost more than we have.<P>AD

AD<P>Hi, I don't believe they feel remorse because they are SO selfish all they can think of is their own pleasures and could care less who gets hurt in the process. The only time they start to feel bad is when their new affair crumbles. Then the betrayed is somehow finally good enough. Sorry, I am feeling quite bitter today, even though I had a great weekend. I just don't think people care about anyone but themself when they are betraying.<P>There was a really good post by Genie the other day, that really goes into detail, you should check that one! Its good. Dana<BR>

it is always easier for the person who leaves first. It has little to do with who betrayed who. The person who didn't want the marriage has already processed the leaving process far ahead of the person left behind.

I am beginning to think it is because they have no conscience. I think it is a basic character flaw. They view committment and being a good person as less important than immediate gratification. <P>I am not talking about people in short term affairs, people who never leave their families, or even fence sitters who stay home but who have trouble breaking off the affair. It takes a "special" kind of person to give up the love and respect of their children for an OP, to put the OP's wants above those of his/her children.

Thank you all for your replies. I don't believe my ex had processed the leaving process, his affair was discovered after 5 mos. and I don't think he planned to leave until I caught him. Even if this is true, how do you process leaving your kids? How do you ever get to the point that you want so little time with your kids, even if you do want out of the marriage?<P>AD

Already Divorced,<P>My husband didn't leave and our daughter was one of the big in fact he stated the only reason he did not leave and ended it with the OW.<P>He was sick of leading the double life and to stay here for our daughter meant he couldn't keep the OW.<P>It caused him great pain to give her up and I do believe he felt worse about hurting her as opposed to me even though he saw the pain I went through day by day. Blow by blow.<P>I don't know the state of your marriage when your husband got involved with the OW? I do know that here in this home the marriage was a mess. I had a great deal to do with this and accept my responsibility in the demise of my marriage.<P>My beloved husband kept his friendship with this woman from me for over 3 1/2 years and of course the affair of nearly two years.<P>One of the reasons my husband was able to get into this relationship is that he felt our marriage was dead. He had already mourned the death of our marriage. At least in his mind and heart he felt it had died.<P>Then along comes OW who made him feel at first valuable and worthwhile. He explained to me once that she was the only light when his world was so dark. I can imagine how wonderful it must have been for him.<P>Is it possible your husband already felt your marriage was dead?<P>As far as him apparently being able to continue with the OW and in the throws of bliss...it is probably because it is easy right now to be there and not look into <B>his</B> family. When he is confronted with you and your son he most likely feels guilt and pain. He probably does feel the loss when he is with your son. My guess that is why he doesn't spend much time with him. <P>I don't necessarily think that it is easier for the betrayed but, that instead they are in the ignore and focus on the new wonderful feelings and stuff.<P>We as human beings don't like to knowingly confront or face the things that make us feel bad. I think this is why your husband is behaving like he is.<P>I am nearly sure and all the statistics point to this being true that this won't work out with OW. That eventually the fantasy will fade and the relationship will be exposed to the light of day and they he will find himself in the same possition that he was in his marriage to you. This combined with the realization of all the destruction and pain that was left behind makes for a very rough road. <P>So, even though it may seem like he is sailing free right now I venture to say his future is not bright.<P>Remember you can only guess what is going on there and how it is going. It may not be as rosy and bright as you think it is.<P>I am glad to hear that you are on Paxil. I pray to the good Lord that your pain is healed as quickly as possible and that he brings you to a place in your life where you can experience true joy again.<P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't loose. What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B>

I think so many who cheat have their egos raised by the fact that someone else wants them. They begin to think that they are really God's gift to women and so they live out their fantasy. My husband does not want to hurt our 27-year-old daughter, but he doesn't seem to care about how he hurts me.<P>I have been separated for two years and will soon be divorced. Last summer, I met a man who appeared to be very attractive to me at first. The more I found out about him the more I was turned off. His self-esteem was so low. It seemed that he was trying to prove himself to his older brothers.<P>He really wanted to snare me as I was a teacher and wanted me to go down and meet his brothers. I could see through this. Also I found out that he had been married four times. He has an 8-year-old daughter from his third marriage, and was seeing her once or twice a month before we met.<P>After we met, it seemed that he didn't have time for his daughter. One time he wanted to go by his ex-wife's home but they were not home. She asked him not to come by any more and confuse the child by bringing another woman there. I could understand that. I think his sole purpose was to show off to his ex-wife that he had met a teacher and that I had a nice car. Since that time, he has not had time for his daughter. <P>I have written this guy off my list even though he calls me from time to time. What I'm saying is that when a man thinks that he's found someone exciting to build up his own ego, to heck with the wives and children he has left behind. Thank God I've found him out.<P>Dana, thanks for your reply to my other post. I'm sorry that you're feeling down and I feel somewhat the same way. There's got to be a better life for us somewhere.<P>Martha

Samantha,<BR>Thanks for your reply. If my ex felt our marriage was dead, he sure did hide it from me. He was loving and affectionate until he got involved with the OW. He bought me a very expensive ring for Christmas. I think at that time he was fighting his attraction to her. We were very involved in church and he was a Sunday School teacher when the truth came out. Of course, now he never goes near a church. His sister was involved in an affair at the same time. She has a good H, but while she was involved with the other man, she felt she hated her H and had a list a mile long of things wrong with him. Of course, she said she didn't love him anymore. The OM dumped her and she is still with her H. <P>Thanks<P>AD

AD,<BR>I know that I am going to feel the same as you after my divorce is final. I will still have questions unanswered that will probably still drive me crazy. I often wonder how they (the betrayer) does it. Just walks out....forgets the promises....the future of their family.....the love....the honor...the etc. <P>I wished that I could be like so many on this board that have seemed to not care about the answers and have seemed to "accept" and not feel any more pain....and go on.<P>I know I can go on. I have.....but I am not sure I like what I see. I am lonely...but it doesn't seem to be a loniness that anyone can help with (at least at this time) I get mad...mad at myself mostly for still carrying a torch for someone....someone that doesn't care or feel any of the pain or take any of the blame.<P>I have to constantly remind myself that those feelings are for someone I knew a long time ago...not the person I know today. But when you have children involved...it makes it so hard. You have to see them....speak to them....hear what he is doing...yadda yadda...yadda. Closure doesn't seem to come as easily when there are children....if at all. <P>I know one day....that is what I hear. But when that day comes...I don't know.<P>I, like you....did not have a bad marriage. In fact we had alot of fun. He surprised many with his leaving, with his affair....and now with his actions.<P>I will love him always...that hurts<BR>I will care about him always...that hurts<BR>I will think about him always...that hurts<P>Because you know that they don't feel the same way.<BR>Nancy

Lonelymom and Martha642 have it right. Most people, especially men, get involved in affairs because they are selfish and have a huge ego. When your ego gets involved with anything you do, brains pour out of your head like water.<P>Some betrayers do suffer within themselves in dealing with the results of their actions. I think it is true that these are the people that want to stay in the marriage<BR>and make things work. In making the choice to stay rather than leave for the OP, we are taking the hard road. However, I think in the long run, the betrayer will find more happiness in staying and working things out than they will following a fantasy. Sooner or later the fantasy will become reality.<P>I do not think that the betrayers will ever feel as much pain as those that have been betrayed. Already Divorced, the fun that your H is having now will not last forever. In the long run he will suffer for his action. I believe we all reap what we sow. <P>Sometimes it is easier to follow a fantasy that to face reality. In facing reality we have to face our failures and deal with negative emotions. I know there have been many times that I wanted to go and hide somewhere until things got "better". Facing the results of my affair has been the hardest thing that I have ever done, but, the pain that I have caused my W is far greater than anything I am feeling. I guess in some way I do have the easier path. However, there are no winners in affairs. All of us lose something.<P>fs

<BR>edited by claudia103<p>[This message has been edited by Claudia103 (edited March 12, 2000).]

Claudia,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Do you suppose depression plays into it. My husband has always been unhappy about<BR> something outside of himself. Mostly where he was working. We have moved a few times.<BR> He has always searched "Out there" for something. I never suspected it would be me and<BR> the kids that he would dump his unhappiness on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You could have been describing my H. I commented once to him that he had always seemed to be looking for happiness and it had always eluded him. I often hoped that he would be happy if only X changed - his career, where we lived, etc. And then he blamed on all on me. He agreed that he had never been able to find happiness - and said that he had decided that he could never be happy in a relationship with me. Of course he was unhappy before we met as well, but apparently that seems irrelevant to him.<P>But he has been gone a year now, and is getting worse, seemingly blaming me more and more, and acting more and more spiteful. <P>Perhaps people should undergo depression screening before they are allowed to have kids, get married, or even date...<BR>

Already Divorced,<P>Your welcome first of all.<P>Secondly since there was apparently no real strife in your marriage then it could indeed stem from a mid-life crisis. That of course means very self centered motivation.<P>It is so odd that your husband was so involved in church and that he bought you the diamond ring then poof leaves for another woman. Goes to show the temporary insanity thing. The fantasy and all the rest of the stuff that seems to go along with these affairs.<P>I wonder if you are still interested in restoring your marriage and if your husband came back if you would be able to move forward? I am not wording this very well. I am not insinuating you can't in anyway I am just wondering where your head is at and what you are hoping for?<P>My husband was for sure having a mid-life crisis too. Couple that with the state of our marriage and the OW whom chased him down relentlessly for 1 1/2 years and there you have it. A full fledge love affair that has caused all involved and our extended families much pain.<P>I have to agree with Firestorm that I don't think the betrayers ever feel the pain to the degree we the betrayed do.<P>I can only assume in the scheme of things that God in his infinite wisdom had decided that I had many lessons to learn and growth to achieve.<P>My husband's sister had an affair too and in that way our situations are similar. The difference though is she left her husband and married her lover. My husband stayed here and we are in recovery. <P>The interesting thing is that my husband's father had done the very same thing with a woman from work at the plant almost exactly at the same age our daughter was when this relationship with the OW became a full fledged affair. His sister's child was also the same age nearly that she was when their father did it. Makes me wonder about the sins of ours revisiting our children?<P>What do you know about this OW? Did they meet at work? Sorry about all the questions but, I am just trying to put the puzzle pieces together.<P>I will continue to pray for you but, if I had an idea as to what your plans or desires were I would be able to direct those prayers more effectively.<P>Just for good measure<BR> <B>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Already Divorced}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}</B><P>------------------<BR><B>God bless you and all of us. We are all going to make it, all of us! With God on our side we can't loose. What God has joined together let no man put asunder. <P>Samantha</B><P>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 05, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by A blessed Samantha (edited March 05, 2000).]

I appreciate Firestorm's comments here as a person who has admitted his mistakes. God bless you for having the courage to speak up about this. I would love to talk with you sometime if you don't mind just to see if I can understand what is going through my about-to-be ex's mind at this point.<P>When I met my husband in the late 60's, he was an airman at a local air force base. He was good and kind and I thought he would be someone I could depend on. I was also inexperienced for my age. We married when I was 26 and he 25. We adopted a beautiful baby girl 5 days later.<P>I was teaching and my husband had a minimum wage factory job when we married. My father had been employed by the post office which was a great job here. He encouraged my husband to take a Civil Service Test which he passed after I spent time helping him to study sample questions for the test. He often became very frustrated about having to learn the city scheme for downtown in the metro area where we lived.<P>I drew him a map and color-coded it of the down town area and helped him study. He did very well and has made a good worker. We have saved and would have had a wonderful retirement together.<P>Sometime in the last few years, he met this needy woman at work who was dissatisfied with the attention she was getting from her husband. So guess who she turns to? And the rest is history.<P>Depression has been mentioned. I too think that is a big part of it. My husband did not have as much education as me so he always had to put me down as not having enough common sense. Also an older sister and a younger brother have been treated for depression. So I think this plays a major part as well. <P>He has told our daughter he has done me wrong. Tells daughter to remember my birthday and such. Yet he would ignore it. Also he has told my best friend it was all his fault. Why can't he say those things to me? One time he did say he had really messed up and the grass wasn't that much greener on the other side. Yet, he was pulled back to it.<P>Although it may look to me that he isn't feeling any pain, maybe he really is. But I still think that ego thing is so important to him that he doesn't care how much it hurts the other person.<P>Thanks for reading this.

Samantha,<P>I just wanted to answer your questions. You mentioned self-centered motivation. I feel this is a driving factor for my H. He says he didn't have a life of his own and wanted his freedom. The OW works with him and I really believe she came on to him. This is not her first affair. I know people think I'm crazy, but I would love to see my marriage restored. This only happened ten months ago, and I feel he is still in the fantasy. I had a very good H until this happened and he has done a complete turnaround. Thank you so much for your prayers. I know God is a God of restoration and nothing is beyond Him.<P>AD