My wife returned home two weeks ago today and we have had good nights and bad nights. She has decided to look for a new job,her reasons are because of the negative atmosphere she is around there but i don't really care what the reason just so she isn't so close to OM and the temptation to see him will not be as easy. I have had bad days and good days wandering why i am putting myself through this but i know i want this and its a rollercoaster. It is in God's hands.<BR>When she returned she said she needed a couple of weeks to make sure that she truly wanted to work on the marriage or not. We haven't talked about it since and i think i am going to broach the subject tonight. I know i have to have patience but i need to know where we stand right now, we are going to a play and out afterwards tonight which will be our first night out together and by ourselves since she has been back. I have seen a lot of positive signs but i am afraid we are going to be right back not dealing with our problems if we go on like we are now. <P>Question: How to approach it w/o pushing? She is very good at not talking about stuff, avoiding it,excuses like i don't want to talk about this now, are you pressuring me(that was the one she used when i gave her the emotional needs questionaire last week, which she hasn't filled it out) your making me feel guilty.<P>Question: When she agrees to start working on the marriage, what is my first step, i don't want to push her to fast, i want to do counseling,devotionals,dates, read books,etc.,?<P>Question: When we start working on our marriage how do you deal with sexual aversion when she has had relations with another man? We have not had any sexual relations since November and our sex life is one of the big problems in our marriage, she hasn't enjoyed having sex with me for a long time and she thought there was something wrong with her but now knows it wasn't her so she thinks we are just not compatable. I read the article about sexual aversion but it didn't mention anything about recovering after turning to om.<P>Question: I guess i keep plan a'ing until she is ready to work 100% on the marriage?<P><BR>Derek<P>anything is possible through god!<BR>

I've been thinking a lot about your post. Your wife sounds like me and I don't like confortations. It's good that she is back. In order to have open and honest discussions I think that counseling would be the best. For me to communicate I have to feel loved. I remember my ex and I laying next to each other he would hold me (laying like spoons) and I would bear my soul. This was the way I could communicate openly, feeling loved, and avoided his facial reactions...sounds like a cope out, but it worked for me. I have a strong need to 'feel' loved. Take it slow, she is home. I would try not to rush things. Try holding her and talking to her...maybe she will open up. Regarding the sexual aversion, I can't help. Mine is just the opposite...I can't get enough and he isn't willing to be with me. So right now celibate sucks! He has a GF so he isn't suffering when he wants it...oh well....in time things will be better.

Hi Derek,<BR> One of my H's biggest fears in our recovery has been that IT would always be an issue between us, that I would always be needing to talk about IT and that I would never be able to forgive him and move on. He's said that when you do something you're ashamed of you don't want to be reminded of it. I can see how this is true,especially if WS has expressed remorse and a willingness to work at things.Your W is home...a big step,that speaks louder than words. I'd say go to that play,go out afterward and never mention word one about how things are. Let her feel comfortable and relaxed and have pure fun with nothing in the way.Talk some other time,limit the duration of the "serious" talks and be sure to "sandwich" your talks together between relaxing,feeling good times.Good luck and ENJOY yourselves tonight!

Derek, I mostly agree with the last post.<BR>Go slowly and avoid reminders of deadlines just now. <BR>After all no news is good news right? I bet that if she had decided it wasn't going to work,she would have told you already, or moved back out or something.<BR>Don't get me wrong, it needs to be talked about, but let her feel more confortable with the situation as it is first.If you push too soon, she might feel too pressured , and end up doing something none of you want done.<BR>Even if she didn't verbaly agree to work on the marriage, it is being done already. that's why it's important to go slow. All the good times , all the nice and relaxed conversations, all the laughs together are helping your marriage. That's what you should focus on for now. Getting her to feel good about being back, which might come withuot her even noticing.<P>Although it is possible , I supose, to find someone where not compatible with sexually, I don't think that is as commom as all that. when the time comes, I guess the best option is to talk about whatever problems she finds regarding sex with you, and find solutions together. I personally think there shouldn't be anything that can't be worked out. But you need to talk about it so you can fix it, right?<BR>However I think that might need to wait a bit more - sorry - I suppose it's better to let her connect emotionally with you first, before anything else.<P>And now get ready to go for that play and have a good time. ENjoy this time together without pressure and clear your mind of any negative memories.<P>Have fun<BR>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Derek,<P>Friday afternoons are soooo tough on me...<BR>taking the kids here and there...<P>I'll get back to you later...<P>But!!!!<P>Go with what <B>mthrrhbard</B> suggested...<BR>Give tonight up to your W...<BR>The best form of affection is to let her enjoy what she used to enjoy in the past!...<P>Don't broach the "subject" tonight...<P>You were patient through Plan A...<P>Give it just a little more time!... please...<P>I'll be back with some other ideas later...<BR>I promise! <P>Enjoy the play!<P> <P>Jim

{{{{{{{{{{<B>Derek</B>}}}}}}}}}},<P>Your post got me to reread parts of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6010_give.html" TARGET=_blank>"Give & Take: The Secret to Marital Compatibility"</A>... This book I find is somewhat more geared to "recovery" issues than <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>.<P>Has your W yet agreed to a full and complete separation from the OM?...<BR>-if <B>not</B>... all you can really do is continue with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> (until you have to consider <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>)<BR>.....Ideally starting on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A> would be great...<BR>.....but you can't if there is no "joint agreement" on the separation from the OM<BR>.....you can't keep fully to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3904_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Rule of Time</A> if she spends time with the OM<BR>.....you can't keep fully to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3903_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Rule of Honesty</A> if the affair is ongoing<BR>.....but you can continue with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3902_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Rule of Protection</A> and the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3901_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Rule of Care</A> (these are == <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>!!!)<P>-if <B>yes</B> (she has agreed to a full and complete separation from the OM)<BR>.....did she and you write the "separation" letter(on page 58-59 of SAA)... this is very important!<BR>.....then you can start applying all of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A><BR>.....Get going on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>... it is a cornerstone to the 4 rules... and the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6010_give.html" TARGET=_blank>"Give & Take"</A> book is the best at explaining it! The concepts of how Giver & Taker can both be satisfied should be read and reread several times... (I needed to read it at least 3 times)<P>To your questions...<BR>#1 You can't push too fast... Asking for EN questionnaire...counseling...reading books... is OK... just reduce the pressure!<BR>#2 Until you get the "separation from OM" counseling would be great... consider MB counseling!<BR>#3 (Sexual aversion)... A good way to overcome this is by meeting her need for <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3305_aff.html" TARGET=_blank>Affection</A> first...<BR>-flowers...<BR>-running bubble baths (with candles)...<BR>-all the good ideas from <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/155927185X" TARGET=_blank>Light Her Fire</A> by Ellen Kreidman<BR>-give her 0(zero) pressure...<BR>-let her know you still have <B>passion</B>... in your words... (maybe a little poetry)<BR>-always be non-threatening...<BR>-approach giving her a back/shoulder rub (non-threateningly)...<BR>-make all your touches... non-threatening...<BR>-make it clear you have no expectations of sex...<BR>-touch gently... (how about dancing... up close)<BR>(counseling may be needed in some cases)<BR>#4 Yes... Yes... and Yes!<P>I hope my input helped... <P>Prayers to you friend... <P>Jim

Well, thank you all for your suggestions, unfortunatly i got them a little late but i did decide on my own not to talk about it before we went out. I made dinner for her and had the table in front of the fireplace, thought it would be nice. She came home seemed like something was wrong but didn't say anything, said she didn't feel well. After dinner, we sat and had a good conversation about non threatening things. It was about 20 minutes before the play was suppose to start and she didn't look like she wanted to go so i asked and she said she was afraid to go cause she might fall asleep so i said thats fine lets go look at cars and then go have a drink. She said that sounds good. We went to see cars and that was fun but when we went to the bar. The tension began, she felt uncomfortable there and she wouldn't talk about anything so i like an idiot asked her how she was doing, she said not good and i asked why and she said she didn't want to talk about it i said fine. But than she said let me ask you a question Do you think it is getting any better? Here is the stupidest thing i could have said i blurted out no. Than i explained that we will have good nights and bad and she didn't think we were having any good nights. I said to her that it is going take a lot of time and counseling. I also went on to say that we have to be 100% commited for it to become better. And she said how can i be commited when all i think about is that i would rather be somewhere else? Than she went on to say that she is afraid if we try to make this work that we will grow to hate each other if it doesn't work and she is afraid that we will lose our friendship. she went on to say that our relationship has been best friends and sex was forced(guilt) over our marriage. And she says she doesn't think any counseling will ever fix it and i said counseling alone won't fix it but us listening and trying what the counselor says will help. she was very frustrated and said i don't want to talk about this anymore, i said fine, i was so pissed off and wanted to lovebust so bad but i just sat there on the couch(we were home by then) she came in and said what is that look i said i'm just sitting here, we didn't say much after that we talked a little about what was on tv and than we both fell asleep, i woke up and nudged her and said that i was going up to bed are you coming and she said yeah so we still did sleep in the same bed.<P>During this talk she mentioned that all the stuff i've been doing is making her feel guilty, and why was i doing it, why the dinner next to the fireplace, notes, opening the car door,she says it all makes her feel guilty cause she thinks about being somewhere else, i told her i just do these things cause i enjoy doing things for her not to get anything from her or to make her feel guilty. i said i'd stop if that is what it is doing but i said you need to tell me these things i can't read your mind. I also asked her about when did she want to start counseling and she said i don't know. so i guess i wont push that anymore right now.<P><BR>This morning we went to breakfast before she had to work. We had good conversation and everything seemed ok for now. we planned on doing things today and this week. i know she is really confused, i hope i didn't do too much damage last night. I need to leave it in God's hands and stop trying to do it myself. <P><BR>Derek

Derek...<P>Your doing good!... I'm glad you didn't push!<P>How about the complete separation from the OM?...<P>How about the "separation" letter(on page 58-59 of SAA)?<P>I'd say go with counseling on your own first...<BR>Show her your willing to go that extra step... that your very serious in reconciliation...<BR>Maybe...a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> ($85US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A>!<P>I think Steve or Jennifer can help you with your understanding of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html" TARGET=_blank>The Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)</A>... and your acceptance of this (eventually your W's acceptance too)... will make your recovery <B>really</B> possible and long lasting. The book <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6010_give.html" TARGET=_blank>"Give & Take: The Secret to Marital Compatibility"</A> will be very helpful to you!<P>I understand her reluctance to "fail" again... (it's a real fear)...<BR>As far as the guilt... (it is inevitable)...<BR>Let her know... you will be there for her... and that her guilt is natural... and will fade only if you <B>continue</B>... It will only "go back to the way it was"... if you <B>don't</B> continue applying the Rules of Care and Protection (ie. Plan A)! Let her know you will be consistant... and to bear with you a while longer.<P>Try and make as much of the time you spend with her "fun" time... Occupy her mind with "fun"... it will supplant the "guilt".<P>You are so far ahead of me... and so many on these forums...<BR>...use that as something to keep you going...<P>I... and so many others... are seeing little results in our post-discovery, pre-recovery Plan As... hurting through Plan Bs... and angered or upset through divorces...<P>...your in a "relatively" good position...<P>Keep God close to your heart...<P>When you get down a little... like on the couch... don't let her see that... maybe take out a bible... or a Harley book... or a book of meditations... hey even "Light Her Fire"!...<P>Confidence in this working out will be contageous... but it takes time...<P>Time is on <B>your</B> side...<BR>...so are all of us here!<P> <P>Jim

Thanks Jim, i needed that boost from you, i was thinking about doing couseling by myself this week how do i tell her i am starting without her without making her feel GUILTY. So you think i should continue to do things for her even though they are making her feel guilty, it just seems that she might consider it a lovebuster now that i know it makes her feel guilty. Thanks for all of your support i am going to have to get some of the books you mentioned, i have his needs her needs. I don't know about the no contact thing she told me she isn't going to have any contact but i know last friday she saw him at work and talked to him, i don't know about this week she hasn't told me if she has or hasn't i don't know how to approach it without lovebusting probably should have asked last night while we were talking about it but i don't want to bring it up now until she wants to talk again.<P>Derek

Hey NSR or anybody else, It seems there is a pattern starting here our weekend starts rough but by the end it seems like we are getting closer and than by mon night or tuesd we start right over. <P>Derek

Derek...<P>You bet it gets rougher at the start of the week...<P>...when there is contact between your W and the OM... or anticipation of it... she starts falling back into the <B>addiction</B>. It's like an alcoholic who thinks about their next drink... or drives past a bar... or smells it in the air.<P>The best thing to do is to get her to a point of no contact... when that is?... how to do it?... depends on the particulars of your situation...<P>I'd think that <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley can best help you here.<P>We... pop-psychologists... (i.e. MB forum members) can give you support and ideas... but there is nothing like going to the professionals for answering those all important questions of <B>HOW?</B> and <B>WHEN?</B>.<P>As far a when an meeting an <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Need</A>... itself... becomes a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Buster</A>... that is really for you decide by your W's reaction. Remember... she calls the shots on what is a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Buster</A>! Again <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steve</A> or Jennifer Harley will be able to help here too!<P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited March 21, 2000).]