Hi, Sheba.<P>I don't think the girls have moved past this at all. I think that they're hurt beyond belief. I think they are also able to give their opinion and not be discounted in what they want or need. Their mother left them. Chris is and has been wonderful through it all, and they have him as their one beacon of light through all of this. <P>If their mom talks to them occasionally, every once in a great while at Chris's insistence, will this help them through their pain? Or will Chris talking to them honestly about what they REALLY feel and if they want to talk to her be a better route? Leaving the decision up to them? I know that when I was a child that I would have felt resistance to that type of pushing. I think if someone really listens to the kids and what they want (especially when the wife/husband is obviously not acting AT ALL like an ADULT!) they will fare much better. That's all I'm saying.

Thanks Connor - I see what you are saying and I agree with that...<P>I am not saying to talk to the kids or anything about that though....<P>I am just talking about Chris telling the truth to Donna when she asks why the kids haven't called.....<P>Merely for him to say "they haven't wanted to"<P>He should not avoid.....but should inform her and let her have that knowledge to do with as she sees fit.<BR>Right now - she doesn't have that knowledge.....<P>Would you agree?<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Sheba, I agree completely. Donna should know exactly what her kids are feeling. <P>Sorry Chris, didn't mean to turn this around at all. Sheba offers some good advice. You're a great dad, I really admire ya!<P><BR>

Sorry Chris - didn't even see you there......oops!! Geez, like it's your thread or something!!! (wink-wink!!)<P>Of course I have to jump in....what else have I got to do but live vicariously through all you folks? It gets lonely here in Whack-A-Doodle World!!!!<P>Just think on it....Maybe his cell has caller ID on it and they'd see the number (so don't block it) and she would pick up......could happen!!!<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba

<B>I’ve been ignored enough dagnabit!</B> This IS my thread after all!<P>I do discuss what the kids are feeling about it. I let them know it’s okay to be hurt & angry. I don’t tell them the should be hurt & angry though.<P>I believe the phone does have caller ID. She said she saw a FL area code the other day & thought it might have been us (Ya’ right!)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>and she would pick up......could happen!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>and if frogs had wings they wouldn’t bump their [censored] when they land! Could happen! LOL<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Chris,<P>My opinion for what its worth:<P>Send her a certified letter so that she has to sign for it.<P>Tell her everything your are feeling and thinking.<P>Tell her everything the the kids are feeling and thinking.<P>Tell her you are ready to move on or to work on marriage if she is.<P>If she doesn't answer, file for divorce, if she answers you will know which direction you need to take.<P>I know you love this woman, but look at what she has done to you over at least the past year and what she has done or may have done in the past. Is this truly someone you want back?? <P>Other than being your children's mother, what qualities does she have now that you want her to share with your kids.<P><BR>I am more jaundiced now that I am divorced, and I try not to let thsi enter into my posts. It may have with your, but I think you have gone above and beyond and you and your kids deserve better.<P>God Bless,<P>Bob

Hey Chris...<P>Not much to add; just wanted to say I saw your update, and a public “Hi!” <P>Her little, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> We should probably talk about the visit sometime.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> doesn’t look to me like she wants to set something up to see the girls; more like she wants to chew you out for “dropping by” the palatial Wankboy Estate. If she starts in on that direction... hang up on her.<P>I think the thing that gets me is the girls didn’t want to see her. I know she doesn’t care about them, but the effect she’s having on their trust/abandonment issues is criminal. Good thing they’ve got such a great dad! <BR>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited April 07, 2000).]

yeah, a certified letter saying "You must respond by Dec 25th."....<P>Chris, you just gotta hang in there until then. You've set your timeline, it is a long one, but you got to find a way to deal with your feelings until then. <P>Or change your date.<P>I don't think that you should be placed as "mediator" between the girls and their mother. You are doing all you can to keep their lines of communication open. You are supporting the girls - and I do think you are doing the right thing in letting them know it is okay to "feel", but not telling them how they "should feel". <P>Donna needs a wake up call, but - I'm not so sure that sending her a certified letter is the way to go. It sounds like she is comfortable with "outta sight - outta mind" - and is looking for a scapegoat (and you could be it - conveniently) - on "why the girls don't call". That is BS, you know it, I know it, the entire world knows it - except Donna. <P>I think if you put a message on your machine, announcing your daughter's highlights of the week - it could be cute, friendly - and you should leave the part out about "unless you are Donna"..... AND, maybe each time Donna calls - she gets somehow connected to home. Could be a non-threatening way to help bridge the gap between mom and daughters - and leave you out of the "scapegoat" role that Donna is conveniently putting you in.<P>I sure would hate to see this play out in court that you have been "alienating" the children from Donna. She wouldn't have a chance to win anything, but remember - she is a guilt ridden woman that does not want to face up to what she has done, and it would be easier to find a scapegoat to justify in her mind than to mend the fence with honesty and commitment.<P>You are in a hard place - coping, waiting, trying to be both mom and dad - and you won't get an ounce of credit from Donna while she is in this insanity frame of mind. You have to keep carrying on, hang on to making up through your date, or change the date. You have to keep from making a bad situation worse, it is plain that you can't do anything to make it better - she is in her world, and you and the girls are in yours. <P>Sounds like wankboy's parents are taking care of someone's child, huh? Is it wankboy's child? What are they, enablers? <P>I'm glad you are back, safe and sound. <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I sure would hate to see this play out in court that you have been "alienating" the children from Donna. She wouldn't have a chance to win anything...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I’m not too sure about that... the courts are pretty screwed up. IMO, Chris really needs to cover his backside on this, to prevent Donna from swooping in and grabbing the girls... legally. I know the responsibility of parenthood doesn’t jibe with her current carefree lifestyle, but who knows what evil lurks in the head of a whack-a-doodle? She’s proven she’s capable of <B>anything.</B><P>I just want you to be careful, Chris... almost as much as I want you to be happy. I <B>know</B> you’ll be both... someday. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

Hi Chris - Still Thinkin'? Well, don't let me interrupt....we'll just keep mulling this over for you!!! LOL!!<P>Hey WhoDat -<P>Ya'know I have been thinking on that "talking about the visit" line of hers and I think that Chris would be better off with something like "Donna, I realize that this is an awkward situation for you but think of how awkward it was for me (and the girls) to make the gesture in order to see you". If she goes off on the phone....<P>What do you think? He wouldn't be reacting to her attitude and would not be LoveBusting either......<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba<P>

Sheba, you're much better at this whole "diplomacy" thing than I am. <P>Yeah, I know... knock you over with a feather! LOL... <BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

WhoDat - <P>LOL!!! (getting up now!)<P>Practice......Years and years of practice!!!!!!<P>Punching bags help also!!!<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

SHEESH!!!<BR>Just decided to pop over here from the defeated board and wow!! what have I been missing??? I gotta get over here more often!!<P>Seriously Chris, between you, NSR and Medic, it gives me hope that there are wonderful men out there for us poor divorced types! You guys are like the Rock on these boards, following Harleys principles and working your a**** off to save your marriages. Why didn't I marry someone like you guys??????<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Susan

Chris,<P>Thanks for the update.. I empathize with you and the whole up and down feelings we have everyday. I will give you no opinion, since I think you're doing the best you can based on what we have both learned at this site. It's all about time anyway, isn't it. In time we will lose most of the love we felt for our wives, and moving on will be easier and/or by that time the affair will crash, so yeah, it's all about time. Patience stinks but we both need it.

Chris,<P>I have been following your story for quite sometimes. I admire you for the kind of father you are and for your determination w/Donna. I have to ask you (please dont take this wrong) if Donna called you tomorrow and wanted you back - do you really think you could? Do you repect her anymore, as a person, as a mother? Maybe its because I am a mother but I just dont get it..How could she go so long w/o contacting her daughters. I understand how a marriage can go so wrong that one feels hopeless and therefore an affair occurs (I dont excuse it)but how can you leave your kids? So my question is do you really believe the two of you could make it together w/all of this damage? Take care, Magoskid

Magoskid, I think you hit the nail on the head. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have to ask you (please dont take this wrong) if Donna called you tomorrow and wanted you back - do you really think you could? Do you repect her anymore, as a person, as a mother?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I ask myself this very question everyday. However, I feel it is something I need to at least give us the chance to answer.<P>She hasn’t filed for divorce. Why not? We can speculate about it and we can listen to others who have been in her shoes. But it still doesn’t mean it’s why she has chose not to do so. So I wait.<P>I’d really like to say divorce is not in my vocabulary. I think it is totally bullsh!t though. I still don’t want a divorce. I’m not going to issue an ultimatum. I’m prepared to wait. Torture? Sure it is, but I believe it’s possible. Harleys say it is based on their experience. I feel it is possible to wait two years. I don’t wish to have regrets about something which I may have been able to fix. When I feel it is no longer worth the effort, I’ll bail. unless she files first.<P>I believe in marriage and all it stands for. This is what I am standing up for and trying to teach my children. Stubborn? Perhaps, but that is how I will repair my marrige with Donna.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A><p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited April 08, 2000).]

UGH!!!!

Ugh.<P>?