Hmm... well I guess it's how should I put this your "cavalier" attitude towards the situation. I think your H must have incredibly thick skin to be able to come here and read your responses. But hey, I don't know your pain or your H's for that matter all I know is what I read here. I may be totally wrong in my thinking.

So what rubbed you the wrong way about my response?

I would not go to the party. You and your wife should make other plans, together, and forget the "good-friend's-party-have-to-attend" mindset.

To be a fly on the wall in your house...<P>You both come across in your posts as so willing to learn, so willing to compromise, so willing to take the others feelings into account and somewhere between the computer screen and real life something falls apart.<P>You don't know how badly I want to go steal cupids bow from him and give you both a fresh arrow right in the tushy. Both of your posts exude love for each other. <P>Aughhhhh!!!! Frustration!!!! <P>Cat-What is your reasoning for thinking it's a probable to talk to the OM? Knowing it's important to sparkydog that you don't, that he'd feel better about himself and you, and that you'd deposit a few love coins into his bank is there anything you can do to lessen the chance? What would make this option more appealing to you?<P>Sparkydog-What can you do to take her hand instead of rope her around the neck with a choke chain? She's a big girl. Besides reading her posts I have complete faith that she'll do what she can to not intentionally hurt you. The more you plan A (meet her needs, avoid the lovebusters) the greater her motivation to give in return. I've seen this happen in my own life. My husband absolutely refused to give up his online lover. I brought it up twice that I'd like him too, that I thought it was the only way to give our marriage a chance, and that I realized it was his decision. I didn't mention it after that. He made the decision for no contact on his own, had a couple of slipups over the course of the next couple of months, and I kept right on plan A'ing. Then contact ended for good. It takes a bit of intestinal fortitude, and there were times I needed a serious self-esteem shot but it worked.

Cat and Sparky,<P>Hmmm... what to do when the unstoppable force meets the immovable object?<P>Cat - where is your compassion? As a betrayed I can really relate to the pain this situation will cause him. He doesn't really want to control you. He just can't comprehend that you would do something that would hurt him so deeply (such as talking to OM at the party). His attempt at "control" is nothing more than a cry of desperation. Are the few minutes of chatting with OM worth causing your H this pain? If so you guys truly have a long way to go.<P>Are you two going to let this stupid party become a roadblock to your recovery? <B>This party is means NOTHING</B>. In the grand scheme of things it is UNIMPORTANT. If you guys can't find a comfortable compromise then you should skip the party. It just isn't worth it.<P>------------------<BR>But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.<BR>Galatians 5:22-23

How about if you both beg off claiming that one of the kids is sick? that way your friend won't feel slighted about you not going to the party and you won't have to deal with this right now. Maybe later when things are more solid between you, you will be able to fact this type of situation, but right now, it's probably going to cause a problem.<P>Or, since Cat will be going later, Sparky could go, Cat could call Sparky at the party to tell him that "one of the kids is sick and that she needs him to come home" <P>Just a thought on how you can avoid the situation and save face with your friend at the same time without having to explain the details.

Sparky Dog, you are a bigger person than I am. I have to come face to face with OW for 1st time since discovery on Saturday at a Kiddie birthday party. I informed H that he would NOT be going. It will be hard enough to breathe the same air as her. I can't imagine what you are facing by having to deal with Cat talking to OM. I will keep the two of you in my thoughts Friday night. I hope that you & Cat can come to an pre=party agreement that works for you both.

Butterfly,<P>Thank you very much for your kind words, but I have to point a few things out. I am Cat's driver Friday, that's about it. She is going to say good bye to our friend, to have fun, and to see, talk, and probably dance w/ OM. This is all speculation on my part but I have to prepare myself for the very worst. In thinking this, I can hopefully expect the worst and carry myself in an incredible Plan A mode the whole night. If less than the worst happens, it will be a truly wonderful night. <P>He will show up, he won't be rude or mean.<BR>A date???? Cat is his soulmate and they've already made plans to be together the rest of their lives, so I kind of doubt he'll bring a date, unless it's for me. Hey maybe he still is a friend and is concerned for me. LOL<P>As far as compromise, no dice. Even asking that she not dance with him came out as ordering/telling, so now that will probably come true too.<P>Rob and Onceloved,<P>Declining is not an option. It's either go with her or sit at home and wait for her to come home. Besides, Rob, she has never been really happy with me and has been completely happy with him. I can't compete with that.<P>TMD,<P>I do have thick skin and Cat's attitude isn't "cavalier", its more trying to lighten up possibly the darkest subject anyone will ever have to deal with. I do it too. See!!! I'm a happy boy. I do appreciate you coming to my defense, but we both understand our posts to be caring and honest.<P>Beth,<P>Flies in our house usually get swatted so be careful what you wish for. <P>The difference between the computer and real life are the emotions. It is so much easier to be a great guy over the puter than it is in real life. I can't hide the emotions in my eyes, my face, my body language when we're together and that makes Cat feel even more guilty, I think anyway.<P>Is that intestinal fortitude those stomach cramps I get? <P>2sad,<BR>This party isn't a roadblock to recovery, because there is no recovery at this point in time. We are little more than roommates right now. She is in love with another man and is excited that she will get to see him tomorrow night. Sometimes I feel I am the roadblock in the way of Cat's happiness. <P>Anyway thank you all again for your responses. I got my first flaming folder. LOL. We will go to the party, we will have a great time, and I will carry myself with as much dignity and grace as I can muster. The collar and leash will stay home, maybe we'll get to use them after the party. [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/wink.gif[/img] And I will let Cat determine the course of the weekend. Got rid of the kids till Sunday. <P>Oops. Sorry TS that won't work. LOL We have to do this. Things are actually pretty solid between us, I think. We know we love each other, but Cat's guilt won't let her come back. For now, anyway. [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]<P>Claire,<BR>Thanks for the support. I think the only pre party agreement that Cat may agree to is to come home with me, but he11 I'm not even going to expect that. [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/frown.gif[/img] Worst case thinking I suppose.<P>Keep us in your thoughts, prayers, chants, rituals, or whatever everyone uses for sprituality. [img]http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]<P><P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

I agree with Beth. It seems that when you are both posting you are both trying, but then an opportunity comes up for Cat to see OM and everything is back to square one. It seems the issue of "being controlled" is Cat's great excuse to say "See, this is the reason their was an OM, it's his controlling ways". I think it is apparent that Cat is still very much into her fantasy with OM, that she doesn't want to hear or see that having contact is hurtful and she has basically said "yes, i know SD feeling, but so what". At least that is what I am reading here. Her non-chalant attitude seems smug as if saying "Hey deal with it or don't". I think that is where TMD's and other's frustration comes in here. (though I don't want to come off speaking for everyone just myself). JMHO

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>Oops. Sorry TS that won't work. LOL We have to do this. Things are actually pretty solid between us, I think. We know we love each other, but Cat's guilt won't let her come back. For now, anyway. <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Cat, is this true? Is it your guilt getting in the way? Ifit is, won't seeing the OM like this make you feel MORE guilty?<P>I have come to realize in the past few days that my OM is doing me a huge favor by staying away the way he is. I didn't have the courage to ask him to stay away and I foolishly thought that I could see him as a friend and everything would be OK. But those feelings are still there and the only way I can deal with working on my marriage, or even deciding whether I want to, is to not see him. I need to face my internal issues without that extra distraction. And I know, for you, the relationship with the OM was more intense than my situation, so it will be even harder for you after you see him. I know how much you want to, how much it hurts not to. But I also know that not seeing him at this point is probably the best thing to do or you'll start hurting even more.<BR>

Sparkydog,<P>I guess there is nothing really to say. I believe you have chosen the best course of action. Go and do you best to enjoy the evening.<P>I had a thought last night (which is always dangerous ). Does the friend who this party is for know about your marital situation? Since he is a friend of the OM, I would think this is going to be a very awkward evening for him and spouse if he has one.<P>Have either you or Cat given any thought to how the presences of you, Cat, and OM will affect his party? This could be very strange. <P>Well, Sparkydog I wish I had some great idea for you or great insight to either you or Cat. I apologize that I don't. I will admit that your situation, really gets to me. <P>One thing to remember is that she is still heavily in withdrawl and the recovery phase hasn't even started yet. If you read Mercy's posts, you can see how long it can take to get to recovery, but then things can go along well and fast. It is my fondest hope this happens for you two.<P>Hang in there and do your best.<P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL

Ok, Pep talk sparkydog...<P>You are a good man....<BR>You have the capability of creating love between you and Cat...<BR>You have the strength of character to act lovingly even off of the computer...<BR>You can keep your LB's in check...<P>You care about your wife and that caring will show you the way...<BR>You have the strength...<BR>Believe in yourself<P><BR>She's making a choice that hurts now, but that doesn't mean that she will always make a hurtful choice.<P>Believe in your wife.<BR>Believe in your love for each other.<P>You are both good people.<P>You both have the power and the potential to create a lasting, loving relationship. You both just need to make a choice to do the work. Lasting love doesn't fall out of the sky. Grasses only get greener when someone tends to them. Throw down a little weed and feed in your own garden and his will pale in comparison. He doesn't have the know how to sustain his greener grass for long. He doesn't realize what he can lose. He will stop taking care of his own.<P>Sorry Cat, but there's no quick fix, and you both have to work at it even when you don't want to.<P>To quote an indigo girls song...Tell all the friends who think they're so together that these are ghosts and mirages all these thoughts of fairer weather. So we sit here in our storm and drink a toast to love's recovery.

SD- Did Cat actually SAY that she is excited to see the OM? <P>I have found that the more speculation, controlling, and pressuring I do...the further I get set back. <P>Just speaking from my own experience here...but please, please just Plan A her over & over! Remember, her definition of Plan A might be different then yours so be very watchful of her reactions. Remember..180? If something doesn't seem to be working...got the opposite way. <P>Hang in there guys. We are all rooting for your recovery!

JL,<P>You brought up a very good point about the friend. Yes he does know and Cat and he have discussed the affair. Ironically, he went throught the same situation, friend and now ex-wife, so I guess we'll need to find out how he would feel about our little triangle being at his party.<P>Our situation gets to you? I guess that makes me chuckle a little. Heck, I think ours isn't half as bad as some of those that post here and I know that regardless of what happens, myself, Cat, and our kids will make the absolute best of the situation.<P>Beth,<BR>Thanks for the pep talk. Just have to walk the walk and talk the talk. MUCH easier said than done. Maybe Friday will be good for me. Maybe the ultimate test of true love? Who knows? I just hope I don't end up in jail. LOL<P>TB,<BR>We were talking last night about the in love feelings and if we ever really had them for each other, and I never thought I did but if you count excitement over getting to see her, or not being able to wait to see her, or hoping it was her on the phone when it rang, then yes I had those feelings for Cat.<P>Sadly, I don't think she ever felt that way for me. I asked if she felt that way for OM and she said yes, I asked if she was excited to get to see him and talk to him and she said yes. Please don't flame her for being honest with me, kay?<P>BTW, Thanks for the cheering section. <P><P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

and there lies the start of this whole discussion: Honesty.<P>Allen asked if I would talk to OM, I could have said "nope" and done it anyways. I was honest and I said "probably" <P>The party is at a bar/resturant. We will all be sitting around a table, at some point I am sure I will say something to him in the context of a conversation.<P>Allen asked me some direct questions about how I feel. I *mistakenly?* answered honestly again. So my answers get posted here to make it seem like I am going to run off for a quick fix of happiness. Hell I could do that at any point and I haven't.<BR>One night is not going to sway my opinions greatly. <P>Am I in withdrawal, yes. Will it be a setback. Who knows. I do trust that Allen and I can both act like adults and not make anyone else uncomfortable. <P>

Cat:<BR> Your honesty is GOOD. I don't mean to rake you over the coals for it, and I don;t think others do either. Sparky can't be there for you if he doesn't know "where" you are, right? Much less have any clue where the two of you are. <P> Withdrawal is the absolute pits. My H was in pretty serious withdrwl from mid-Sept thru mid-March. If anyone had ever told me I'd hold my H while he cried about how much he loved/missed another woman, I'd have told them they were crazy. But, that is just what I was doing 2 months ago today (and it wasn;t the first time, just the time we both almost gave up). He hated being that honest with me. It hurt me indescribably to hear it. But, I really think it helped us heal together (and in the last month, things seem to be really coming together wonderfully).<P>Hope things go well on Friday for everyone!!!<P>hugs--<BR>Kathi<p>[This message has been edited by kam6318 (edited April 13, 2000).]

I'm totally late on this discussion.<P>Cat, I'm also in withdrawal (I'm a betrayed, multiple separations, I found OM, filed for divorce) and now I'm finding my way back to my marriage, still separated. Sure, you can talk to the OM, it'll either set you back...or you'll think EWWWW. <P>But, what if Sparky is wandering about this party, vulnerable...missing you and some fabulous woman makes contact with him? It's going to happen sometime if it hasn't already, and one of those times he'll have his eyes wide open. I treated my OM as a friend for 3-4 months before my emotions went awry on me. Now, hopefully, Sparky isn't weak like I was...after 18 months of Plan A & my H's affair, but...what I'm saying is that you can end up losing both these men. Sparky is letting you have a little of both, but that's because he is looking longrange at this point. But if you do talk, dance with your OM, Sparky's lovebank will take a drain...no matter how much he tries to stop it. I can feel the danger from here.<P>And don't count on that affair/soulmates thing...both my H & I experienced that with our OP...it just isn't true.<P>(I can be sensible when I give advice. I'm trying to take my own advice)<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Hi Cat,<P>First, post to you on this thread. Well, what can anyone say about honesty. You were/are honest with Sparkydog. That is not a bad thing. You already know that .<P>I too hope that you two will act like adults, but just remember you both are very sensitive adults right now. If you can remember this and Sparky can remember this, then I suspect that you'll get through this Fri. night.<P>I know it is going to be very hard for Sparky, but I suspect it may turn out to be harder for you. I hope that you survive it with a minimum of damage to yourself and the marriage.<P>You know that I and certainly everyone else posting here really want to see you two make it. Someone posted earlier, how the impressions of the screen must not be matching with the reality of the situation. I have to agree, for I sense that there is deep down a love between you two. I guess, as I said to Sparky, that is why your situation does get to me. <P>There seems to be so much potential. So I will give you the same advice as I gave Sparky, hang in there. (At least I am consistent if not original )<P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL

Our horoscopes for today. <P>Cat's:<P>For April 13: Feeling worn to a frazzle and downright irritated? No matter<BR>how edgy or brittle your nerves are, don't push your partner's buttons<BR>today. Temptation hovers overhead, urging you to speak the brutal truth --<BR>or to get down and dirty, hurling insults sure to boomerang. Restrain<BR>yourself, no matter how righteous you feel. There is no need to destroy<BR>tenuous relationships (especially fragile legal or business dealings), so<BR>rise above pettiness and revenge tactics. If relationships are already<BR>tense, for goodness sakes don't set off additional grenades! Take a deep<BR>breath and think twice before taking a stand. Haven't you had enough drama<BR>and anxiety yet?<P><BR>Mine:<P>For April 13: You may be tempted to end a tiresome, taxing relationship -<BR>but try to hang on another day. It is important to reach out and express<BR>your fears and doubts on an honest, respectful level. Allowing the situation<BR>to fester and steam between your ears is not healthy. If you feel you've<BR>reached your emotional boiling point, take a breather and simply call a time<BR>out. This is not the end of the story. You still need to wade through fear<BR>and doubt, and not hesitate to make things right. Others actually may not<BR>fully realize what your wants and needs are. Nobody can clarify this better<BR>than you.<P>Think the stars are trying to tell us something? <P><P>------------------<BR>Allen<BR>sparky_dog_mb@yahoo.com

No one is against honesty so please don't try to say anyone here is jumping on you for that. The way the information is being given to us, is that you answer YES to all questions about speaking to OM, wanting to see him or whatever, with no explanation afterwards, no words of reassurance for SD and to me that seems rather cold. Power of the pen is incredible and if only half of what was said is being written then other will form their opinions. That's life.