Okay this is for the men, What are your needs, as women our needs tend to be a little bit different than a mans, but I would like to know how?<P>My Husband said that he feels these 5 are the most important to men:<P>(1) Sex<BR>(2) being the bread winner<BR>(3) attractive spouse<BR>(4) admiration(being respected by spouse)<BR>(5) haveing domestic support<P>How would you rate these according to your needs? <P>Thanks in advance to all<P> <BR>Mercy<p>[This message has been edited by mercy (edited April 15, 2000).]

Hey Mercy,<P>I must be the odd man out. I hear so often that sexual fulfillment is one of our top priorities. Not for me. Well here is my list. I must be getting old or something.<P>1. Honesty and Openness<BR>2. Affection<BR>3. Conversation<BR>4. Admiration<BR>5. Attractiveness of Spouse.<P>By comparison Val's<P>1. Honesty and Openness<BR>2. Affection<BR>3. Conversation<BR>4. Family Commitment<BR>5. Admiration<P>We filled out the EN ? at different times and did not see the others first. Our top 3 are exactly the same with Admiration being close.<P>What are your Needs? Just like to know, too.<P>Tim

My top five in the questionaire were:<P>1-affection<BR>2-sexual fulfillment<BR>3-conversation<BR>4-honesty and openess<BR>5-domestic support<P>Now, I didn't think to put honesty and openess as a priority because before all of this I thought that honesty and openess was a given in our relationship. After all 0f this affair business, i find that i was not able to be as honest or open as i thought i was.<P>My husbands answers were this:<BR>1- affection<BR>2- conversation<BR>3- attractiveness of spouse<BR>4- sexual fullfillment<BR>5- admiration<P>honesty and openness was a hard one becasue he is open and honest in everything he does. It is almost like it should just be a given in a relationship.<P>For me, my husband is very attractive-always whether he just gets off work or when he dresses up. I have always felt that way so having an attractive husand is a given for me also. I am very physically attracted to my husband day or night <P>Thanks for your responses for both you and Val! <BR>Mercy

mercy<P> My needs are pretty close to your husbands. The bread winner is an area that can become a major headache if things go wrong. Your raised to feel that it is up to you to support the family. Your also raised to "Be a Man", if you have a problem then it is up to you to solve. It took me some time (18 years) to learn that either one of our problems is actually a problem for both.<P> As for the Sex it is number 1 on my list and I don't even think is can be found on my wife's. I can't even go into it it has become such a major problem in MY life. It ends up giving you the feeling of extreme fustration. If you want to gage were talking 1 time in 2000. My birthday is in June and I actually found myself thinking about how to work something out for then. I since have changed to thinking I need to be out by then.<P>So sex is a biggy and I believe it is for most Males.<P>Joe<BR>

Hi Everyone,<P>I usually don't lurk here....I spend most of my time on the Emotional Needs board....and there's been no affairs in my marriage....although I believe that my W and I are ripe for one.....<P>All this aside....I just had to pipe into this thread.....<P>My Needs are.....<P>1. Admiration.<BR>2. Recreation.<BR>3. Attractive spouse.<BR>4. Sex.<BR>5. Domestic support.<P>But, I need to add....I think the number one need rotates to what ever is missing....if the house is trashed and I, after giving 50% for the kids care and working a 60 hour week, have to clean the house....it becomes an issue....if there's no recreation, it becomes an issue....<P>This is for the other testosterone ladden posters here....<P>I've found that my sexual desire towards my W is depended upon her interaction with me....are we having fun together....talking some....does she think I'm a good guy....is she looking good....If the relationship is not happening....sex, isn't on my agenda....<P>Do any other men feel the same way?<P>I find sex without intimacy unfullfilling....yes it may relieve sexual stress or stress in general...but, it's not as fun as when the emotional bond between my W and I is strong....I've actually felt bad when we have sex and it's just sex for me...you wam-bam-thank you-mam....<P>If sex is all I need without the need of validation of my W.....I could have skipped the marriage thing and been a bacholor for life....It's all mixed together for me....I have trouble seperating the needs....<P>Comments....

I ranked my needs as follows: (My wife has yet to fill out the need questionaire)<P>1. Affection<BR>2. Sexual Fulfillment<BR>3. Conversation<BR>4. Honesty and Openness<BR>5. Attractiveness of Spouse<P>I am hoping that she fills hers out soon so I can start meeting them.<P>

Hmmm. And you guys wonder why I'm suspicious of men's intentions when they ask me out? I'm really so very tired of hearing how sex is so important to guys, and I'm no prude. The more I hear that, the more it makes me want to stay away from men in general. <P>Did it occur to you that your wives might feel like little more than a "hole" to you? When guys talk about how important sex is to them, that is what it makes ME feel like. All the things that have to happen beforehand (like honesty, affection, etc.) aren't even mentioned? The impression left is that it wouldn't be that hard to replace me with another hole, basically. Where is your wives' importance as a human being entered into the equation? For you married guys, are there really no requirements you would have before feeling safe having sex with your wife? If not, then that is pretty pathetic. IMO, you are sending a message to your wife that you will stick your thing just about anywhere or that you will have sex with just about any woman who is willing. I know that is not how it is, so try and put a little more thought into WHY sex is so important to you, what needs are REALLY being met when you have sex, and list those. Cause, sex for the sake of sex is just a physical act. Any animal can copulate, and I'd really like to believe that most men are not just animals. <P>nowhereman,<BR>You pretty much said what I was trying to say. You put other needs that are usually required for good sex ABOVE the need for sexual fulfillment, which is how I think it should be. If all the other things are happening, then sex will be good too IMO. I know alot of other guys probably feel the same way, but just don't know how to verbalize it so everything just gets lumped into one big pile (i.e. sex).<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited April 16, 2000).]

I believe that there are a lot more guys out there that don't rank sex as being #1.<P>I think.....or I have found over the last couple of months that the older the man the more his needs are different than one that might be younger...(imature)<P>If a couple has the conection of conversation,and has shared hopes and dreams and how they feel in general about everything than I think that you feel "closer" to that person and then in turn "want to feel even closer"ie......sex.....it is the closest thing that 2 people can share together.<P>I think that you will find more men on these boards that have a higher need than sex.<P>just my 2cents.....Gina<P>

Sex without intamacy is a situation that can lead to unsatisfied sexual needs in a marrige. It can definetly feel like a wham bam thank you mam/man situation. IN my personal opionion, sex is very important in a marriage, it is an expression of love and feelings between wife and husband. I personally feel if we as spouses do not take the time to "make love" and keep that intamacy in our marriages someone will find that in another place. When you have an affair, that OP takes the time to "make love" to you and that makes the marriage sadly lacking.<P>Keep posting all!! thanks, this is making me see that men really are not just walking P!!! Men really do have feelinggs they just do not always know how to show them. I was raised in a "men are animals" household and this forum had been such a eye opener!<BR>Thanks to all who have posted so far!!!<P> <BR>Mercy

Dear Mercy,<P>You are right about that one.....real eye-opener!! <P>I agree.....you get so caught up in your everyday things that you forget about the important stuff.Couples have to "make" the time to feel the closeness.It is just hard when one sp knows this and the other one just doesn't seem to get it.<P>When people are dating "they make the time" for eachother.....they will do anything to spend time to get to know that person....woman go out of there way to primp and prime to look there very best......so why is it that they forget this after they have been married? I know that I am at fault in the category!!! I am trying to make up for it tho.....maybe it is too late? I don't know...I guess time will tell.<P>Take it easy.....Gina <P>

I was pretty much Harley-textbook. What surprised me big-time was the Recreational Companionship was one of my needs which led me to fall head-over-heals with the OW. She could do anything I could do, athletically, physically, mentally. It was such a turn-on. She felt that there was nobody out there like me, and her admiration for me was endearing. My W isn't really the touchy-feely type and never told me she was proud of the things I did (I'm very active in the community), even though she did. Also, all my activities took away time to fulfull one of W's important EA's, Family Commitment. My W's admiration for me took a hit for that. Who knew? The OW blew away all five needs in heartbeat. <P>Here it is, Me:<P>1. Sexual Fulfillment<BR>2. Attractive Spouse<BR>3. Recreational Companionship<BR>4. Admiration<BR>5. Affection<P>My W<BR>1. Affection<BR>2. Conversation<BR>3. Honesty/Openness<BR>4. Family Commitment<BR>5. Financial Support<P>the OW has libido like mine, so while her needs mirror my wife, the Sexual Fulfillment need has to be in there somewhere.<BR>

hey w g up h, this is a bit off the subject for the moment-- your name is gina? So is mine!!<BR>Not many people have this name so i always get a giggle when some one does! spelled the same way too!<P>I think when we all get married and caught up in our "seperate" lives, ie: bread winner/housewife then we tend to forget why we were attracted to each other in the first place. I was telling my husband that I used to wait until 3pm to clean and shower! didn't feel the need to do anything else!!<P>I got fat and then who cared what i looked like anyway. I had such a low self esteem and my H didn't like other men looking at me so I quit taking care of myself. So I quit being that attractive spouse.<P>Now I have lost weight I look great and feel great and then I find out that being an attractive spouse was important to him-go figure. I feel confused some days!! LOL<P>Mercy--gina

OK, Now I'm fired up. I don't think we can easily address this issue without bring in the rest of the picture.<P> Before I even begin to vent let me first state I do take resposiblity for not being there for my wife. I also realize my short comings. I am also not looking for any petty I'm just helping to clear the air on the fact that for every story there are many sides.<P> For me my wife has suffered from Panic Disorder. It destoried her life about 2 1/2 years ago. That was the beginning of the fall. True we weren't on top of the world before then but this was the cliff we finally found and fell off.<P><BR> This PD really did a job on her. She still stuggles with it and her medication (Paxil, Xanax) has made it's dents on our marriage. She needs to take a nap in the middle of the day. She does best when no overload with things to deal with. The end result is this.<P>I DO<BR>-- Wash<BR>-- Cook Dinner, Feed the kids and give her dinner in bed<BR>-- She gets Breakfast in bed also<BR>-- I do about 80% of the laundry (Kids help with the rest<BR>-- It has somehow became my responiblity for keeping up with the shopping (She is just now starting to take this back)<BR>-- I do the bills<BR>-- I work about 45 - 50 hours a week<BR>-- She is a full time housewife<P>This is petty much the story here and I'm not looking for petty. This load on me bury me in work and as she struggle with her PD I took on more and more to help her. The end result was I became slave labor and wasn't in touch with her the way I was in the past.<P> Out of this BS along became Mr.@#$W#Q$E%$. He was able to devote his entire time to her and she was free from any load. Needless to say I got the short end of the stick.<P> The thing that continues to really P!SS ME OFF is that we have gone over most of the problems and now added to my load is we do go out more and the house isn't as well kept as before. Getting back to the point is that this SOB was able to get her once a week and I get feed this line about how much loves me and I do believe it and she is sincere in what she saids. I am FAR more Romantic then I ever was. The bottom line is I am now stuck with this nightmare of HOW THE HE!! COULD THIS SOB HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO IT AND I HAVE FOUND A NEW DEFINITION OF LUCKY!!!!!!<P> The lack of SEX is what has elavated it to a much higher level then it was before any of this happen. When things were much better the sex would have been like number 3-4 with Affection, Admiration, Comparionship all above the SEX.<P> I think this issue needs to be addressed a little bit more carefully instead of just getting a snap shot of someones live who is dealing with what we all are.<P>Sorry for Venting<P>Joe<P>

Oh boy,<P>I am sorry for bringing up all of this. I was just curious about what men's needs were. I know you are all going through hell and i did't mean to put this off in a flippant way.<P>I know for the most part what a woman wants and needs. I was not raised around a father and the step father I had was very unemotional(still is)<P>I know what it is like to be that number one person who does everything! I have been there, and at that time my H was involved in having an emotinal affair with some W****!! So I do know the other side of the coin. I have been there, but the bad part is I thought i knew what he was doing then, but he only confessed it in the throws of hell when i confessed my A. <P>I am so sorry for your pain, I realized everyones emotinal needs are different at different times even. <P>I wish non of us had to go through any of this. <P>I guess I feel a bit bashed. sorry if i offened anyone here.<P>The betrayer bows her head in embarrassment<P>Mercy<BR>

Mercy<P> You don't need to be sorry for bring this up, IT IS ME THAT IS BEING VERY TOUCHY. I apologize to all for my previous post.<P> I been thinking about it and I honestly feel that is affection and admiration that are up at the top of my list. I just find it hard to go to her and ask to be held or something along that line. I been doing it for that last few days and just a few hours ago I got turned down twice. I got a reply of I'm to tried to give. How can I ***** about that, I know she is. I've been a bear doing the taxes and reliving last year. Lord knows I wouldn't want to be around me either. This morning my daughter's hamster died so it was a major crisis due to her attachment.<P> Before I get going the bottom line here is I want to be reassure, I want to feel loved. It wouldn't be very "Manly" to go crying and asking for it and saying "You never hold me anymore". So what do I do Blow up on sex, I think the guys could learn a lot from the ladies, after all what is it you want from us ---- to be open, to be honest, to express our feelings. Do we --- NO.<P> Well, I picked up some movies and come hell of high water I'm going to let her know my feelings and let her know I've been a bear lately. I get this BS that somehow all this should have be hash out so there is no reason to rehash it (Damn Shrink), Well weak or not it been hell seeing how her business changed last year and just how BLIND I was and it may be wrong but she needs to know.<P> Sorry, for rambling but maybe the lesson here is that it is easy to b!tch about sex but the rest of this is hard to put into words. And don't forget it's not manly to be show weakness and be needy.<P>SORRY <P>Joe<P>Mercy, I'm glad you did bring this up because I need to let it out somewhere<BR>

<P>It is okay, i am just one of those people who takes things very personally especially since I am someone who WAS very much like your wife and I have to admit it did bring up some feelings for me also.<P>Glad to help you vent, My husband finally did break down and cry and told me he did need to be held, and vent too. IT was an awful night, but one that started the healing for him.<P>Even if your W doesn't want to hold you, she needs to listen to you. She caused the problem it is definelty up to her to help fix it! <P>(((((((((((((((((big hugs))))))))))))))))<P>not the wife, but someone who understands<BR>MErcy<P><BR>

Mercy<P> Let me make a suggestion for you to help your husband. I there is anything he needs now it's <P>reassurance<BR>reassurance<BR>reassurance<BR>reassurance<BR>reassurance<BR>reassurance<BR>reassurance<P>and when your done with that<P>reassurance<BR>reassurance<BR>reassurance<BR>reassurance<BR>reassurance<BR>reassurance<BR>reassurance<P> Looking at your profile this seems to be new for you. D day for me was August 29th, 1999 (amazing how we remember). Try to aware that he'll get hit with reminders from every angle. My wife was pretty good about catching it as fast as I did and she jump in a cheer me up before it had time to sink in (Do this it meant a lot to me).<P> If you husband is like me I'm still trying to make up my mind so here's another update.<P>Males rate how good a marriage is by the sex in it.<P>I believe this does have some merit to it and this seems to be why bring up that point. <P>If your husband is quiet, keeps his feelings to himself. Deals with problems by himself. Has trouble talking about issues. Fears the word romantic (I hated!!!!! it, never did understand it). If any of these sound like him let me know I'll fill you in more on myself and how I learned to become a member of the human race again. I may be depressed, I may suffer from anxiety and it may take me some time to complete the picture in my head but I learned what makes a relationship tick. I understand romantic as a matter of fact I've done better then most that got me started.<P> I do have a much bigger mountain to climb then most due to the wife's panic disorder but I meant it when I said "for better for worst.... in sickness and in health". There are times like earlier but when we click I can get lost in her eyes, her smile can warm the coldest of nights and her touch can heal ANY pain. Judging from your husbands reaction you also have the same effect on him. US YOUR MAGIC TO PULL HUM THOUGHT THIS. The wife and I have made it to the other side (we do slip back but I've seen the light) and I'll tell you if you get past this your marriage will have grow like you could never have thought if possible.<P> The OM told my wife it would take an act of GOD and I was glad to hear her tell him to watch out that GOD is here and working overtime.<P>Good Luck Mercy I'll be praying for you and your husband.<P>Joe<BR>

Okay, here it is:<P>My H and I are able to discuss OM without any problem. We are comfortable in discussing him. We must drive by his house everyday, I do mean everyday. We get a lot of reminders of this situation. <P>I had 3 affairs with the same man. After the first time i reassured and reassured my H that it wouldn't happen again. And he believed me. I now see that i was trying to convince him as much as myself. Then it happened again. Again, I spent two years convincing him and reassuring him that it wouldn't happen again. It did. So now it has been 4 months since d-day and we can finally be:<P>1-honest and open, when i feel the urge to call or to contact I am honest and tell him, he then makes an effort to talk and keep me with him so the urge will pass.<P>2-be affectionate- I always hold his hand or kiss him or touch him in someway. I do this unconciously<P>3- I admire him, he is a beautiful person; inside and out<P>I cannot verbally reassure him because he is definetly more concerned with showing him that I am working on what i have promised by showing and telling him anythng and everything I can to insure that he does know what I am falling in love with this new husband God has given me.<P>You would have to realize that in my profile i was a very empty cold pity party kind of person. I am not that way in my normal self. As a matter of fact, I hated people who cheated on their partners. My H said to me that me cheating on him was the last thing he ever thought I would do. I was not that type of person. He thought if anyone was going to cheat it would have been him.<P>As far as sex goes, well that is the only way he knew HOW to show how much he loved and cared for me. Well i didn't see it that way, I saw that i was a W****. He may as well just paid me for it, it was that bad. He couldn't be kind or loving or affectionate or any of the emotional stuff he needed to. I found it all somewhere else after a fashion.<P>I know that my husband loves me deeply. Very deeply. I do not deserve that kind of love. But I have it, and I want to return that love with a deep love of my own. MY husband is loyal, affectionate, admirable, considerate, loving, handsome,kind, and he is mine. IF, I used my "magic" I would want it to be real. Not fake. I am not a fake person. As a matter of fact, If I do not like something you will know it, i do not beat around the bush. <P>Have you read at all in Recovery? Have you seen any of my posts there? WE ARE IN RECOVERY NOW!!!!!!!!!! <P>I love my husband and I am very sorry for his pain. I praise God for removing the blinders from my eyes to see what a man i have. The bible says "men should love their wives as Christ does the church"(my rendition) and my husband does. His love is mine and only mine and basically unconditional. <P>Mercy<P>

Mercy<P> I believe you going to make it. I believe your going to become one of those examples we'll be using of just how well you can recover.<P> I replied to this last night but for some reason it didn't take, but as I was lying in bed I started think about it and wanted to pass this on.<P> I know in my case depression comes in the back door quietly and then slow changes your thinking. You start to slowly develop an I don't care attitute. Take a good look now at your husband, take a good look at how he feels. DON'T FORGET THIS!!!!!. God forbid that if he does start to become depressed his efforts will drop, his attitute will change and NONE of this will be real. What you be seeing is a mask not your husband.<P> I have been trying now for days to get my wife to realize that doing the taxes and reliving last year has been ABSOLUTE HE!! on me. I feel so far down it isn't even funny. I have this I don't care attitute right now. I could walk out the door and not come back and justify it every step of the way. THESE ARE NOT MY TRUE FEELINGS!!!!! <P> I do hope your husband does develop this but if you carefully watch him you can stop him from ever take the first step. Like I said my case is different I have to take care of myself, I need to be my own support system. My wife is going thru He!! with her panic right now and she doesn't need to bother by my needs. I just wish she would realize that hold each other requires 0000000 effort but does a he!! of lot for me!.<P> Mercy, I been talking to someone I know who is in the same position I am. I believe you could be of a real help to him in understanding his wife and her feelings. I also think seeing his fears may also help you forsee any problems your husband may have. As soon as I get his name here I'll put out a post for <P>MERCY TALK TO ________<P>I think the two of you can learn a lot from each other.<P>Thanks<BR>Joe<BR>

For us - sex and intimacy has never been an issue in our marriage - even after 18 years, it is still fireworks and desire. I always felt lucky for that. <P>A strong factor that pops up in our marriage alot is the :<P>'breadwinner' thing - we are both very successful professionals, but my husbnad really NEEDS to feel he is the breadwinner becasue that is how he was raised - I had a particularly successful year this last year and he wasn't feeling like the breadwinner as much. <P>I stroke my husbands ego regularly - I am very proud of him, but no matter what I say or do - it never seems to be enough - or he doesn't believe me - it has to do with his self esteem issues - which go back to his childhood. I am aware and try to help when I see 'those insecurity feelings' creeping in, but this time he just went out and found an annonomous women to stroke his ego - <P>'admiration' is very important to my husband - I don't need to be admired as much as I need respect.<P>'conversation' is important to me - my husband shut all of that down with me when he found his new - 'friend' - I tried, but couldn't understand what exactly was going on until I learned about the OP. I thought work was taking all of his energy - as it does so much of the time. <P>'Affection' I learned was an issue that I didn't know was a problem. In the few days after I learned about OP, my husband told me 'I needed to HUG him more' - something we had stopped doing many years earlier - he stopped hugging me and I stopped hugging him - I guessed he didn't want to do that anymore - HE on the other hand interpreted that to say - I no longer found him attractive, nor liked him, wasnot proud of him... he read alot into that one - and went out and found OP that filled those needs even though they never met - I didn't even know. Even though we had no intimacy issue - it says alot about how people can seperate physical fullfillment and emotional fullfillment. For me - I can't seperate the two - if there isn't one, there can't be the other. <P>We are 'HUGGING' more even when we are arguing about things that happened in this event. It has been an important part of recovery - we still have a long way to go, but we do talk more and I have been brutally honest - something I wasn't before because I didn't want to 'add stress' to our already hectic lives. I figured if he could not handle the truth and deal with reality - then he wasn't the one for me after all. <P>'honesty and openness' are very high on my agenda - and I think it actually is for my husband now - he sees he needs to be more open with me about his needs - and show his feelings more - that is a hard one!, but he is trying.....