Tomorrow on the Oprah show, phil is talking about adultry.. the coming attractions, were him yelling at this guy, admitting to cheating for yrs.. and this greatest man on earth, put him right in his place!!!!! <P>For those of you who don`t know, the show is on twice a day..! look for it, tape it.. and talk about it.. It should be quite interesting!!!<P>AV

I LOVE Dr. Phil. Have you gotten Relationship Rescue" yet???? Great book! I live by the first one, so I had to get this one too!!!<P>Thanks for letting us in on it.<P>Lori

PS:<P>BTW people.. Phil Mc Graw is on Oprah every single tuesday, and he addresses things about relationships every week.. but each week is on a different subject, like one week is was verbal and physical abuse.... tomorrow he is focusing on infedelity.. <P>

PSS: <P>I forgot to say your welcome lori!!! and no, I didn`t get his new book.. but in my case it is too late.. my ex is gone, and never coming back.. so his books will only do me good for future relationships.. and the next guy that comes into my life, is going to be the happiest guy on this planet!!!! beleive me.. you take care... <P>AV

'Phil' is the name of the guy my wife has been living with for the past month...I'll try not to dwell on that. My biggest concern is about feeling guilty for leaving work early (hehe)<P>

Theo,<P>that was cute, but as I posted the first time.. Oprah is on twice, once in the afternoon, and once in the evening.. doesn`t matter where your from.. she is still on twice a day! and as for the name phil.. this guy phil will put the phil your talking about to shame!! he he he! <P>take care <BR>AV

So how did the show go? What was said, what was done? Just being nosey....<BR>mkn

It was HARD to watch, but EXCELLENT!<P>Having been on both sides of this thing, and being seperated from my H as I write, made it worse... I saw both sides of all stories. I immediately called my H at work and apologized for never giving him proper closure, and thanked him for finally coming clean about his earlier affairs, as this action healed more pain than 13 years of denial and waiting around for the pain to just subside with time. Phil said something very interesting... <B>TIME IS JUST TIME</B> it heals NOTHING! How's that all you (and me!) that have told people to just give it some time!?<P>Instead, the betrayed spouse needs CLOSURE... and that can only come about with 100% no contact (quit the job if necessary, if the lover calls, get the spouse on the phone to send the message home, be accountable for 100% of your time). It was just excellent. I'm sure others will chime in with their perceptions.<P>Order the transcript if you can stomach it... it hurt, plain and simple, to watch what we have all lived.<P>~Sheryl

They said next week,it'll be about wifes who cheat on their husbands.Equal opportunity airtime,I guess. --Murph

I also watched Dr. Phil on Oprah today and came away from it sort of confused. I do have his book, Relationship Rescue, but find it hard to do this work myself. I think it is a book for both people in the relationship, and my H will not get involved in any reading about all of this.<P>I admire the way Dr. Phil speaks to people. He really did let the first H have it! Wish someone would talk to my H like that, I'd love watching him have to take it. Ok, that's mean, but so many of these WS get off scott free.<P>I am at this time trying to do a good Plan A, and have seen some improvements. Dr. Phil is a bit black and white for me. He gave the couples on his show very little hope and encouragement. It did seem like they were trying to work on their marriages and he handed them a death sentence. Maybe the H on the show will understand the "No Contact" part of all of this if nothing else.<P>Just wanted to put in my two cents.<BR>...Allison

I thought Oprah had very little understanding of the issue and was even more black and white. Would like to see Harley on there because it is a different perspective that needs to be heard.

I much prefer Dr Phil's tough love approach than Plan A/B<P>I like his approach either commit to the relationship or move on. NOne of this having your cake and eating it too. And to have enough dignity and self-respect to not allow yourself to be treated badly.

TMD:<P>That's a very common viewpoint. It's easy to digest, because it reeks of "justice" and "what's right."<P>Unfortunately, the tough love approach has a very poor success record. Both in the ability to save the marriage, and the ability for the individual to grow through the process, should the marriage not be saved. That's not to say that you can't grow and use "tough love" (or that it never works), but it's not a comprehensive, integrated plan.<P>The Plan A/Plan B method gives you a much better chance for success (personal success), and it also probably gives your marriage the best chance for recovery. And you can do it while maintaining your dignity and self-respect too.

For New_Begining,<BR>re: contact...I am struggling on making a wise choice here.<BR>Let me see if I can summarize...<BR>My W had an EA , d-day was 9/8/99, found their email. It was a short EA, w/ some kissing, hugs, intimate talk, I discovered it is probably why it didn't go to a PA.<P>Went through the Withdrawl period, it was about 60 days before they even laid eyes oneach other. W said the W/D period worked, she lost the emotional attachment to him. <BR> I first spoke to the OM in Nov, our kids are on same team. <BR>We had contact during season about weekly, our pastor advised us to pull out, we didn't.<BR>I can only say there was one incident that caused a few problems, talked thru it,<BR>Now...we actually socialize sort of with the OM and his W ( she knows nothing) OM back in Nov came clean, appoligized, agreed totally to whatever I wanted,. He never broke that, never attempted to make contact w/ her.<BR>We now are going into a new sport season and <BR>it is highly likely our kids will be on the same team again. I just got an email from the OM, we dont' talked about the EA. <BR>Is this weird or what. I have mixed feelings, everyone says I am nuts. My W and I talk about the EA, and I routinely ask, when we are around the OM, what are your feelings? She says not romantic. What about the OM? <BR>I feel bad for not telling his W early on, but I told him I would not if he held to his <BR>promises, and would leave that up to him, I suggested he tell, he has not. <BR>comments.<BR><P>------------------<BR>jnvc

I guess I just have a problem with seeing an affair as a chance for personal growth. Plan A/b may work in the situation where there is unmet needs.. but the first couple on Oprah did not look to be the case. The H admitted he went looking for an affair it was an ego stroking thing more than he was missing something at home. That's where I liked the tough love approach.

jnvc,<P>I am honestly the wrong person to ask about this because I still work with the OM in my situation. I think it can be done, but I'd say that the chances are slim to none of the marriage surviving when there is contact... and frankly, my marriage is not surviving, as I said. <P>I rarely come here anymore, but this topic got my attention... I hope I'm not a downer to you... <P>Best Wishes,<P>Sheryl<P>

I happen to like what he said about a favorite quote of his, which was, "I`d rather live alone and feel healthy, then to live together and feel sick!!" <P>I loved the show.. and phil making them realize their wives pain!!!!<P>that first guy was defintly still on the defensive, the entire time... they looked doomed to me...<P>I think the second guy, was finally getting it, but the pain she carries has a long way to go...<P>I taped it.. and would love to show it to my ex.. but he is too far gone, for working at our situation.. so gone.. things are almost final.. <P>I would have loved for Phil to express to the men/woman that left already, that in making their own selfish dicission, many lives are being ruined, for that one persons lack of abilitiy to communicate!!!! <BR>KEY WORD!!!!! and KEY TO EVERYTHING!!! and that leaving, is the only cowardly way out! and thier lives won`t change, for the better with the next person, if they don`t change...<BR>the old saying: "different face, same problems" <P>AV<P><BR>

I watched the Oprah show with Dr. McGraw today as well. Personally it seems obvious that the first husband is not interested in making a new start with his wife, and that he returned only because of the children. He admitted he recently spoke to the OW and that he still loves her. He was obviously tense and uncomfortable the whole time and it seems he's very much in the addictive part of the relationship with the OW. <P>That said...I am really finally saying out loud that our marriage is in trouble. My husband returned last night from a trip that was business and pleasure in the Caribbean. I couldn't go because we don't have anyone friends or family to watch the kids. <P>Anyway, the homecoming was good, I thought. But there is so much emotional distance between us. I found myself reflecting on our time together this evening and my husband seemed strangely distracted. Not work-distracted, just distracted. Very polite, not completely "himself." You know when you know someone you can detect subtle shifts and nuances others wouldn't notice?<P>I have nothing solid. I suppose there could be legitimate reasons for his distance. But since things haven't been going well...I'm wondering how to tell if he might be having an EA with someone? I believe he would be gone a lot and other things would be occuring if there was something more tangible going on. But how do you tell? He could have an email account through his work and I'd never know it. <P>Personally I think it's entirely possible he could be communicating with someone from there...and feeling distracted and guilty, but because it's not a "real affair" yet, the usual signs aren't there. <P>I've known for a really long time that things haven't been good. I've been making a real effort since he's been back to talk and smile and all the things you do when you care. But going over the way he interacted with me tonight, the lack of closeness between each other, and other strange vibes, like his extreme almost strangerlike concern and politeness..You know it didn't seem like "him." <P>Does anyone understand what I'm saying here?<BR>I suppose I could try asking him outright, but we're not doing well communicating and I feel like I'm dealing with a stranger all of a sudden. <P>HOW DO YOU TELL? I don't have his voice mail number, his company pays his cell phone bills, I don't have access to his work computer, there's nothing his wallet. <P>It's just the odd way he's acting.<BR>Please help. <BR>

Lisanne,<BR>Rocky ground or not, you should be honest about your feelings and insecurities with your husband. If you let it go and ignore what may or may not be your instincts that something is wrong, believe me, it will get a lot rockier...<BR>I have been beating myself up for the past few days because I just realized that the DAY BEFORE my husband cheated on me I confided in my mother that I thought he was having an affair. Did you catch that? I suspected him the day BEFORE it happened. He was distant, detached, different. Things between us were not great. If I had confided in him my feelings and worries maybe he would not have done what he did THE NEXT DAY. Maybe we could have talked honestly about our situation and he wouldn't have reached out to someone else.<BR> When I finally did pluck up the courage to ask him if he had ever had an affair it was a month later and over and the damage has been done. He denied it at that time but that's another post. <BR>You could prevent something. You could reach out to him by opening a door for communication. If he is doing something you could intervene before it goes any farther. How I wish I had spoken up when I had my first suspicions!! I could (maybe) have saved myself and my children from the worst pain I have ever felt. <BR>Please, Lisanne, talk to him. Nothing good comes from keeping this inside your heart. But, since you are on shaky ground, make sure your approach to him is loving, sincere, and calm. You don't want to put him on the defensive. <BR>The way I said it to my husband, that I was really worried about our marriage, we were so far apart, has he ever done anything blah blah blah was great. Only it was a month too late. Good luck.