I need to vent and ask an opinion of all who would reply. My W left me on March 1, 2000 about 2 weeks before she went to England to be with the OM for 12 days. She had an Internet Affair first, then a EA, and I believe the Pa started with that time in England since she stayed at his house the whole time. I did not want her to move out. D-Day was 1st of February... we were less than a month in counseling I loved her very much and wanted to go through counseling together. That was not going to work because we were not on the same page. I wanted to work on our marriage and she had to "find out" about this OM and she in no uncertain terms told me she was going to England to do that. She since has met him in a small town near her on Feb. 14th, met him in Chicago for 8 days, he just left her (stayed in her apartment) for two weeks, and she will be leaving for England on the 27th for 9 days. She never has wanted to work on our marriage and she left the house to work on their relationship. She has not given me any indication that she wants to work on ours. I have been doing Plan A as much as the being apart allows and when she is here or he is not here.<P>Last night we talked and she said that if I had left the house instead or her...things may have been different. That we may have been able to work on the marriage. She said no man would allow the mother and D to be separated. She also said I would not let her take her things. She is referring to furniture. She took all the personal items she wanted. She asked me at one point if she should take furniture out of our home for her apartment or for her to buy new. I said I would prefer that the house was not emptied and said I would like her to buy. She immediately went out and purchased $6000 worth of furniture and another $1500 to $2000 in misc. items. She never mentioned it again until last night.<P>The question I have other than this venting is who should have moved. The D is 17 now pregnant and will be starting school this summer at the university in our town. She will be living at home at least til she is 18. She may move out and marry the father. Father is a dead beat that has not had a job for over a year...has 2 other women pregnant in the last for years. Both of those miscarried, he says. Has a job now but not much income. Does not have a car and is 22 still living at home and has a 11:00 PM curfew. D has never given us a problem until now. Is still a straight A student. Goes to church and Sunday school, plays the piano very well and has taken lessons for 14 years with out fail. Good volleyball player captain of her team for 4 years. She stumbled for the first time when W and are were separated. All of this adds to the guilt that W must be having for not being around when she became sexually active. I am very supported of D and respect her wishes to have the baby. I think she would be better off without it but I will be here for her throughout her pregnancy. W insists that she has an abortion and rags on D to the point that D does not want to be with or talk to her mother.<P>What do you think...should have I been the one to move? Or is just a guilt trip she is putting on me to justify her actions?

Guilt trip. Justifying her behaviors. Exactly! Don't lovebust---but don't buy any of that crap either...<P>

{{{{{{{{{{J Willy}}}}}}}}},<P>First off...<BR>...I commend you on what you've done as a father...<P>IMHO...<BR>You did the right thing...<BR><B>NO</B> IFs ANDs or BUTs!!!<P>Yes...<BR>You did the right thing by staying home...<BR>You let your W understand there are consequences to the affair...<BR>(although I would have put a limit on how much she could spend... maybe money isn't that much of an issue for you...)<BR>You provided a stable environment for your D (<B>very important!</B>)<P>I'm sure you feel a bit guilty... <B>DON'T!</B><P>I'm sure your W is feeling more guilty...<BR>...that is part of the nature of the WS...<BR>...and is expected during the affair (especially post D-day)<P>About your daughter...<BR>You're doing a great job!<BR>Guiding her... but letting her make her own decisions...<BR>I would bring up the option of "adoption" if that was possible...<BR>I would definitely discourage marrying the baby's "father"...<BR>...<B>immaturity</B> of man/woman (boy/girl) should be looked at closely in some form of pre-marriage counseling that your D and baby's father should involved in!!!<BR>...If they were to marry...<BR>...would they be building their marriage on God's love?...<BR>...or just to abide by "socially accepted... <I>good</I> practices"?...<P>It sounds like you're a very good man to me...<P>God bless and lead your spirit!<P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited May 10, 2000).]

You did the right thing. You looked after the best interests of your family, while she was off with the OM.<P>No man would allow a mother and daughter to be separated? My wife said something similar. "Kid our kids age should not be away from their mother." I replied, "They should not be away from their father, either." She walked out. You did not force her to leave. She made the decision. Behavior has consequences.<P>You did a good job.

The one who wants to end the marriage and has an outside love interest should be the one to leave the home. <P>Re D - coincidence that she gets pg as Mother starts acting out sexually? Not at all. It's par for the course. Sorry she's having a baby, but hope she and the bio dad will actively consider adopting to married couple who have education behind them and are committed to giving a baby a stable home. If the suggestion comes from someone she trusts who isn't a parent figure, she might be more inclined to follow through, All that would need to be gotten around would be the bio dad's immediate ego gratification. <P>Hang in there.

Willy,<P>I think you have done the right thing. W is just giving you a line of crap. I'm sure if you had moved out, and she was still in the house, she would be doing the exact same thing she is doing now. The one thing I have learned from all of this, is that these people that have affairs are not the same people that we married. They lose the ability to make rational thoughts and decisions. I'm glad you are there for your D, she is going to need you now. <P>------------------<BR>You can't live with them, you can't kill them!<BR>Viki

Thank you all for posting. <P>I also talked to my counselor about this and he agreed with all of you. He also explained how "uncomfortable" she is in her position and that I should express empathy to her. I should and I have now told her that I know how difficult the situation is. That it is extremely difficult for her as it is for me and our D. That there are no good answers to resolve the problem and that it will have to work its way out.<P>This is a good way to not LB in this situation and actually turn it to my favor by deposit some love units. I think that most of this is coming from the OM and he is pressuring her to do something. She had just taking him to the airport and he needs to something to keep W and me apart while he is away. I hope he continues to pressure as according to Steve H this is what will end the A. The W does not like to be controlled and this is the start of the declining fantasy. I can only hope. I will take this all on the chin like us good Plan A'ers are suppose to and start doing some more positive Plan A items.<P>Anyone have any suggestion please post them I can always use the help.<P>MB and you have once again helped so much. I was able to vent and get some good advise along with a truck load of compassion and a bunch of prayers which I can definitely use all of them right now. I feel better!!!<P>Thanks!!<P>Love and Prayers to All!!<P>J W

Your counselors suggestion--expressing empathy--is great.<P>Hang in there.<P>Kathi

I had another thought: Does the OM have a nice place of his own? What is the apartment that your W moved into like? Anywhere near as nice as the family home? If your home is the nicest of all the places, maybe the OM is greedy to have a nice place to hang out in, and maybe that is where the idea that W should be the one to stay in the family home has come from. <P>It reminds me of the cuckoo bird that takes over another species of birds' nest by laying its eggs in it, rather than building its own nest. The cuckoo babies then hatch, push the real birds out of the nest, and eat all the food the parent birds bring back to the nest. I'm not saying that this man wants to bring his babies into your nest, but maybe he wants to have the use of a nice pad without having to work and sacrifice for it. <P>If he pushed this idea on your W, and she in her temporary insane and infatuated state wants to show him how much she loves him, she may present the idea to you as her own.<P>Back to the problem pregnancy with your D, she may have unconsciously modeled her behavior after Mom's (even if she consciously detests what Mom did, Mom's having extra-marital sex bestows permission to have pre-marital sex upon Daughter. And on a different level, it removes the badness of it by imitating the behavior.)<P>Keep being empathetic, the nice guy, and I'll bet she's eventually going to see you in a much more favorable light.<P>Good luck, you sound like a prince!

Bellevue<P>Thanks so much for your advise and questions. I just got home and must leave to go to the W with D and boyfriend to plan a graduation reception. I will be back after to answer those questions.<P>Love and Prayers!!<P>J W

Bellevue<P>I do not know for sure, but some evidence does point to him (OM) having a nice home. My W's apartment is a new duplex about 1100 sq. ft. She bought all new furniture washer/dryer, microwave, tv, radios etc. It is not nearly as nice as the one she, D and I just built...over 5000 sq. ft. with all amenities on 1 ½ acres. We did most of the work ourselves so it would be as we wanted it. Moved in 1 year before D-day.<P>D does not know about OM at least she has not been told and she has given no indication of knowing. She knows there is something wrong but is wrapped up in her boyfriend and tells us she does not want to know.<P>D and W seemed to be getting along better tonight which is what I want for D. I left early to give them time alone. I also left because I was having a hard time fighting the tears. OM just left there Tuesday and I could smell him and I kept visualizing him with her. Kind of depressing but I know they have to be together to find out that it is just a fantasy. They need to find out the bad points in each other. All they know are the good things from perfect email and telephone calls.<P>Love and Prayers for All!!!<P><BR>J W

JWilly:<P>You are exactly right that your W needs to find the bad points in OM. That's what happens in affairs.<P>You have done an absolutely incredible job at Plan A-ing. IMHO you were in the right to stay in the house while she moved out. Your counselor's idea sounds great to me. In my recent experiences I have found that my H has seemed to connect to me more when I express sympathy for what he is feeling (even though there is a part of me that really wants to SCREAM!!!). <P>You did great to talk to W and D about the graduation party and I think you made a wise decision to leave the area when you felt the tears come. You'll be okay. Hang in there. --HBC

Thanks to all who posted. I appreciate the kind words and the compassion and prayers!!<P>Love and prayers for All!!<P>J W

HI J Willy,<BR> Wow! You certainly have a lot on your plate!! Our stories are KIND of similar in that my W left (but living with OM) and my D got pregnant just after D day. I'm not sure she actually knew anything but maybe sensed it?<BR> I agree, you are doing GREAT!! Your W is just blowing smoke to justify her actions. They ALL do this. It's typical. And hurtful.. <BR> In the beginning, my W had me convinced that this was ALL my fault because I ignored her (work and starting a business at the same time) But then I remembered how I was alone a lot as she decided to become a nurse at 43 years old. I had to "understand" because this was "her" dream and she was a single parent for a long time and couldn't. When it came for "MY" turn to go for MY dream, this happened. All my fault??<P> I think you're D is ABSOLUTELY better off with you. After all, what kind of lesson would she learn by being with your W right now?<BR> For better for worse, till dea.. no until you are intrigued by someone else and need to explore a little? NOT!!<BR> AND why should she have to put up with the pain of seeing her M with OM instead of her father?<BR> Keep up the good work. She'll wake up soon. GOOD LUCK & PRAYERS FRANK<P>------------------<BR>desperate<BR>"If yesterday didn't stop today, Why should TODAY stop tomorrow??" <BR>"Wisdom is why!!"<P><p>[This message has been edited by PLEASE HELP (edited May 12, 2000).]

You could smell him? Ugh. I don't care whether it was his deoderant, cologne, after shave, or sweat, how intrusive to have his smell around. Invasive. You must be an olfactory person (can relate - smells an affect me too and I probably notice them more than many people). <P>Okay, so he has a nice place. So maybe W regrets not having her cake and being able to eat it too. If the home you built and planned together keeps looking nice and well-cared for when she stops by, it's a lure. Back to the birds - The male of the species often furnishes a fine nest to attract the female. It's "nice to come home to". <BR>Do you have a nice framed photo of W? Put it somewhere, if you haven't already, a table in the living room, on your bureau. When things go badly with the OM, it will register on W that her photo (kept dusted and polished) that you like to remember her, that you think she's special.<P><BR>About when did you and W start having problems, even if you don't think D noticed? About when did D conceive your grandchild? I can't help but look for connections, and my own experience is that even when my folks thought they were keeping things from me, when I look back and see bad and self-destructive behaviors, they manifested when my parents were engaged in their own acting out. (Details too tedious to recount here. I don't want you falling asleep in front of the screen.)<P>Trust in the Big Guy. He's got some kind of plan in mind.

Bellevue<P>Things seemed to be fine in August 99. We have two condos in Colorado and we were remodeling one of them (the three of us). Got finished early and spent two day on a ranch we have gone to ever summer for the last 11 years. Spent one of those days looking for retirement property.<P>W moved out the 1st of March and D's baby is near 8 weeks now. Wife went to England to be with OM for 12 days about the 10th of March.<P>There are some definite times for the guilt for both of us. I believe that if we were a family the D's conception may have been avoided. I feel as guilty as W.<P> I like the photo idea. I'll start looking for the appropriate one now. If you have other suggestions I would appreciate them. W is coming for diner on Mother's Day. I hope to gain some Love Units then.<P>Love and Prayers to All!!<P>J W