I have been reading your posts and they have helped me so much. I have been trying to end a relationship without much success. I have not told H and do not intend to. Om and I are christian leaders and were in public positions. It would do so much harm to others that coming out is not an option. H an OM are best friends. I feel so awful for this whole situation. Depression and elation have kept me on a wild rollercoaster and it never seems to end. I have no feelings for H. OM and I are both married. I do not want a permanent relationship with OM but I cannot get him out of my mind. My faith is getting weak. When this started I knew I was in trouble. I prayed that God would not allow me to be tempted in this area, that He would give me strength, and that this would pass. At times OM called right in the middle of my prayers. I cannot help but feel that God let me down. I want out of this. I have never felt so low about myself. Will I ever feel respectable again? Can I be the person I was before I screwed up? I have repented several times but it seems futile now because I have fallen over and over. I know God forgives over and over but I can't forgive myself. I have prayed for 15 years that I would have a passionate love for H. It is a cruel joke that now I have that feeling for another. Please help!<BR>

Tenderheart,<P>I am glad you have posted here. That is the first step of honesty and truthfulness. I lurked for 4 months before I ever posted anything. <P>I read your post and really feel for you. I know exactly how it feels. About 3 weeks ago as I was driving to work I cried out loud to God and asked Him "Why, why, why did I have to meet this person (OM) and yet I could never have him?" I also told God it seemed cruel to taste of a kind of relationship I had always longed for but hadn't (and maybe never will?) experienced with my husband.<P>I also understand how you feel about yourself. One thing, though, I feel God has wanted me to learn through this all is that He loves me (to really know it in my heart). And that love is not dependent on my "being good", but is just His agape love towards me, because of Who He is. As rotten and despicable as my behavior was, I knew God had not abandoned me, forsaken me, thrown me out or stopped loving me. I see Him as a loving Father, grieving to see me so rebellious, but yet lovingly waiting for me to return. And I am thankful for that picture - I KNOW (in my heart) God loves ME (not what I do, but ME!). I feel very secure in Him. I understand more than ever that I am a sinner and realize more than ever how precious is His mercy and grace. And I appreciate more than ever His work on the cross on my behalf (remember how much more someone like Mary Magdalene appreciated God's forgiveness - he who sins much, appreciates forgiveness so much more)<P>This is not to say there aren't hurtful consequences to our actions - there most definitely are. But still, God's love is unwavering and He can bring us through.<P>A few thoughts on being truthful to others (such as your H). You say you are in a leadership position and it would be too harmful. It may be a long way off, but consider that when we are transparent is when people are most blessed. Others learn and grow tremendously from hearing our story (whatever that story may be). So, don't completely rule that out for the future. Someday God may use it to strengthen others.<P>Also truthfulness will be a necessary part of your healing. In my case, very few people know (only our spouses and one of my best friends, plus the people on this board). There have been times I have felt I do not deserve that kind of mercy from God - like I am "getting off too easy". I certainly don't deserve it, but for now He has granted it. There may come a time, though, when I may be called to be more transparent to others - about my sin (yes, I am a sinner) and His victory. That is why I must stay the course. If God calls me to that someday, it will be for His glory and His purpose in my life. But I will let Him decide if that is necessary. For now, that seems a long way off too.<P>One thing that is becoming more evident to me, though, is that truthfulness is necessary with our spouse. Otherwise full healing of the marriage cannot occur. And it seems to be the only hope for the chance at a more passionate love relationship with our spouse - what you and I desire and have longed for all along. <P>Draw near to God, that is the first step. It is the only place I felt safe. Ponder some of these thoughts. I know how fragile your feelings must be right now. I have felt at times like I would break. I couldn't think about too much for too long, just so fragile, ready to break at any moment. <P>I like your name - Tenderheart. A tender, softenend heart is the beginning. Don't think too far ahead, for now. Just take the next step right in front of you and stay close to God. <P>Keep posting here and let this be the first place you can begin to be truthful about your situation. I will add you to my prayers (along with Wings, NoMas, Momma, Tamis, IAMTHECHEATER... ). You are not alone!<P>------------------<BR>"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."

A thought on temptation: there is the strange paradox between not being able to help ourselves (we need God and can't keep from sinning on our own) and yet the very real choice we have to not sin.<P>In the midst of it all I had both those feelings. "I cannot turn from this, I am powerless, the feeling and pull is so stong" - and I hadn't ever felt anything pull me like that, never had any addictions or discipline problems. I truly could see how I couldn't do it on my own. And yet, strangely, I was also very aware that I had a choice in my behavior. Everytime I was on my way to see the OM, the thought came into my mind, "You don't have to do this. You can turn around. You don't have to go there". I was very aware that I had that choice and could have stopped, but mostly pushed the thought away and went ahead. I was very aware that no one was forcing me to return a phone call, talk on the phone, send an e-mail or a page. I was in control of my actions, but I wasn't in control of the strong feelings and pull. I also was very aware that I did not seek God's ways of escape ("call a friend to help you be accountable", ask for help...). In some ways I very intentionally and rebelliously kept it to myself because I didn't want this wonderful thing to be taken away from me. I'm sure you know we are to FLEE immorality. I guess that means run fast away and don't stop to ponder it or indulge the strong pull you are feeling.<P>This also came to my mind often (mostly in the beginning, since later I pushed a lot of thougths away that I didn't want to deal with): "No temptation has overtaken you, but such as is common to man, and God is faithful, Who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide a way of escape also". I know for myself, that I usually did not look or want His way of escape. I wanted my own way because it felt so wonderful and touched me deep inside and I wanted to keep drinking from that well (even though we are to "hew from our own cistern" - another verse that came often to mind in the beginning). So, God was there, bringing His truth to mind, but often I chose to ignore it, for I was VERY thirsty and wanted to quench it my way (still struggling with wanting to do that, but thankfully able to keep away from that well for now - yet fearfully realizing I could fall again at any time - considering the posts I've been reading lately). <P>Hope this doesn't come across as preaching, flaming or anything like that, it is not in any way my intention. Believe me, I know you don't need that right now. Just some more things I've learned along the way. Right now I really just want you to know that God loves you, He is for you, and there is hope. His arms are outstretched waiting for you.

Sifted,<BR>Thank you for your reply. I appreciate your gentleness with me. I will continue to post because I think that this helps me alot.

Sifted,<BR>Just a little background. H and I have been married 30 years now. We have a daughter age 24 and she is away at college. My H does not go to church and I am very active in it. It has always been lonely attending when he did not.

Hi Tenderheart...<BR>Your pain is all too familiar to me. Wow! I, too, wonder if I will ever get back on track. When I finally realized I had strayed away from God in my betrayal, I also realized that any relationship that threatened my walk with Him is only going to cause greater pain and distance me even further from the Father. I had to make a choice. I couldn't have both. <P>I'm so glad you are reaching out for support and comfort. Sifted's words of comfort are exactly why I keep coming here myself. I couldn't agree more with what she has said, and she always has such grace and wisdom sprinkled throughout her writings. <P>I especially agree with what she wrote about the temptations. I, too, remember praying the night I was going to meet OM and asking God for strength to resist going over the boundary line, all the while driving there thinking I had it under control. That was my first mistake. I have so much control in my life, that I thought this was going to be something I could handle as well. I was wrong...dead wrong. I allowed my heart to get away from me and my clarity in thinking was no longer under my control. So I too understand exactly how you feel. <P>Keep us posted as to how you're doing. And read everything you can get your hands on. <P>My prayers are with you....<P>Sifted...how's your heart managing today? You're a day ahead of me with no contact. I'm up and down, but H and I are really opening up about a lot of the emotionally connection. But like you, I have taken the leap out of the airplane, and now am free falling, waiting for the shute to open. It's a very odd feeling. Kind of numb. I'm not enjoying this at all, but this is definitely one of those dreaded consequences of a straying heart, to be sure! <BR>Hope you're doing well!<p>[This message has been edited by wings (edited June 25, 2000).]

Hi Tenderheart and Wings! Thanks for your comments. Sometimes I think my words are stronger than I am, they are for me too.<P>Tenderheart, your background info reminds me of someone I (kind of) know. In January I went to a women's retreat and wouldn't you know one of the workshops was entitled "Journey of a Marriage". The woman giving the workshop had a similar background to yours: had been married 28 years when she had the affair to a Christian man, her husband is not a believer, two children grown and out of the house. She shared her story (first time she shared it was more than two years afterwards.) Also, I can tell you that workshop was packed!!. So, there is a need for people to hear, many struggle in the same way. Anyway, initially through sheer obedience to God she returned to her husband, and now 4 years later she calls him her best friend! They attended counseling, she also went to counseling alone for two years, they read through His Needs, Her Needs and other books (that is how I found out about Harley's books and this web site). Her husband is still not a believer (and yet they are best friends). I asked her what made them fall in love with each other, she said a lot of it had to do with learning to accept each other (and I think also growing personally) Another story of hope...<P>Wings, it is a tough day for me. It's not so much because of any pull towards resuming contact (at least not in an overwhelming way, for which I think it must just be the grace of God helping me). Also I realize that to go back there is also full of pain and not a solution, so that helps me. The discouragement is how unconnected I am in the present situation. My fear is it will always be this way because I want so much more. I used to think I was unrealistic, but from what I read here of some of the success stories and from what I experienced I know that kind of intimacy does exist. I don't want to give up the hope for it, but sometimes I feel I might always be dissatisfied it I don't. Reminds me of some of the guys here who are looking for a more passionate sexual relationship - it just might not ever happen the way they'd like it. For me that is more in the realm of relating and being understood. I guess I will need some help in understanding all this. I know some people here post that things have improved beyond all they ever imagined... I just need a realistic picture of what I need to accept - without giving up all of who I am. All of my other relationships (children, friends) are satisfying. Sigh.<P>BTW, I want to share the lyrics to a song I played over and over when my fist was still tightly clenched, holding the OM and not even able to think about giving him up. It is from the Hell Fighters Ministries (hope it is ok to post here). It brought me to tears many times. Called: ONLY WAY<P><BR>Father You are everything I need<BR>Jesus I kneel humbly at Your feet<BR>Father help me I can't do this alone<BR>Jesus take me, my life is Yours to own<P>Spirit convict me, burn away the sin<BR>Please forgive me, I am Yours once again<P>I can't go on without You, Lord<BR>I'm tired of fighting alone<BR>Jesus my eyes are on You and I'll never turn away<BR>Father I will serve You, You are the only way<P>Father I know You've never left my side<BR>Thank You Jesus, You are my life<P>I'm sorry for what I've done<BR>Saviour, thank You for calling me Your son (daughter!).<P>Take care, both of you!<P>[This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited June 25, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by siftedlikewheat (edited June 25, 2000).]

Sifted, wings, tenderheart,<P>I have been reading your thread today. I wanted to share with you something I posted to momma. It is along the lines of what sifted said about the speaker, who became friends with her H again, after her affair.<P>You will find that you cannot recover from this and fight down the draw of the OM by yourself, because right now your are by yourself and there is a vacuum there. Most assuredly prayer and listening for God to guide you is an excellent strategy. However, who is God going to work through?<P>You all are assuming that it is you. But you may be making the wrong assumption. God may work through you H. My point to all of you who are in withdrawal, is that you are in withdrawal, so your H's don't look particularly attractive to you. Yet, if you read here as long as I have, you will notice something very important. Most marriages are repaired by both spouses. <P>You are reading this going well Duh! . But it is more important than that. You despair that you will ever have a relationship as intense as the one you have/had with the OM. This is a test. If you have faith, and can step out of that airplane, you will experience the sinking feeling of free fall. However, if you wait for the shute to open you will hit the ground hard. For you see you must pull the ripcord to have it open.<P>In this case I suspect that pulling the ripcord is talking honestly with your H's about what is happening in your life and your mind. He is the one that will ultimately bring you through this. But you must allow him to do so. He won't be perfect, he may not have a clue yet, but if there is love and I get the feeling there is, he will do his best.<P>God may well work through him, not you to bring you the marriages you want and the end of your confusion and guilt. Please think about this. I know your H's don't compare favorably to the OM now, but you need faith and you just might be surprised.<P>One thing I know for sure going it alone, will leave a gulf in your marriage that you will never completely overcome. Listen and pray Ladies, God does work in strange and amazing ways.<P>God Bless Each of You,<P>JL<P>PS: My comments remind me of a joke I have heard and has been posted here. It is about a man trapped on the top of a house in a flood. First, someone comes by with a boat and offers to take him off, and he refused saying his faith in God will take care of him. Then a helicopter comes by and the man gives the same response. Eventually, the man drowns and goes to heaven. Where he asks God, why he didn't save him. God replies I tried, I sent a boat and a helicopter to save you and your refused. (I didn't do this complete justice but I hope you get the message)<P>Message here, in my mind it that you don't know what form of rescue you will be offered by God, but it may not come through you. Do your best, treat your H as well as you can, and share with him, so that he may help you and become your friend.

Ouch,<P>This thread is very discomforting. My wife gave up on God when her father (who was the most "christian" person in her life) disowned her when she got pregnant at age 18. He stopped loving her and kicked her out of the house. She lost all respect for the church and the people in it. Me I have a faith that is very distant(until now I hope). <P>I'm reading here that al of you who are close to God still can't fight the feeling for OM. My wife will have no chance, because she is going to do it al alone, and with my prayers. But God only helps those who helps themselves right? From your post I can see the pull is to powerfull to fight even with God on your side. I have no chance then. <P>I fear a commitment from her to work it out, while all the time she maintains the other relationship secretly. My soul will only be able to take so much abuse, I am a noble man and I believe that what I am trying to do is honorable in Gods eyes but I absolutely don't deserve to be mistreated. Niether do your husbands.<P>Now I'm completely new to this so this might be a flame, I don't intend it to be. I just vent my feelings and yuo have all been so helpfull to me so far. and I want to be able to come to you for more help as I struggle through this. I love my wife. I still pray that she will be able to return it someday, I know that will be impossible until he is gone.

Just Learning,<P>Please see my other post I think it is under :to NoMas, started by Az Allison.<P><BR>I am tryig to be honest. How honest, though? I am trying to be delicate, but direct. He acts like he doesn't want to hear and I feel cruel for telling him, althogh I am trying. One way that seems a little easier to accept is to print out posts of those struggling like I am and let him read them. It is a little removed from us, yet I can say : "that is how I feel, too". He just has always hated to get too close to uncomfortable things. Also, part of my frustration is that I have always carried the responsibility for this relationship, always cared more to nurture it. Would be nice to see it coming from him, that might help me in the "feeling" department. I know you will say, I just have to do it anyway. I already know that, but just a little vent...<P>Homer, don't be discouraged. We are being honest about our feelings, but feelings do come and go like a snapshot in time. My feelings are not influenced by my faith, but hopefully my right actions are. Sometimes I choose to follow my feelings (hence infidelity), but other times I do what is right (follow my faith). What should stay the same is your behavior in Plan A - keep consistent in that. The Harley principles seem to be very effective. Do not despair just because you think now your wife needs a strong faith to turn around ( and that is the only hope). My faith is keeping me from giving up alltogether and has been the reason for returning in the first place, but it didn't initially keep from infidelity (sorry to say). Don't despair so easily. I printed out your whole story thread for my husband to read - as an example of what to do to win your wife back! Keep persevering.

HOMER....<BR>Please don't be discouraged. Your W still has a conscience and a heart, I'm sure. Just because she may not be walking closely with God right now, how do you know He won't use this very crisis to bring her to her knees from the sheer pain she will undoubtably go through. It's a tortuous journey to go through. I so regret many of my choices, but I do still believe God can and will use it for good! H said that to me last night. Remember, too, that God works in mysterious ways. <P>Okay, Sifted, that song brought tears to my eyes...thanks for sharing that! Very emotional lyrics..so true!<P>Just Learning...<BR>Thank you for your message. I could not agree with you more. My H and I did have a major breakthrough last night as I poured out my heart to him about the whys and wherefores of my straying heart. He finally told me he didn't know what questions to ask so I poured out my heart to him. Told him of the draw the OM had and why he did. How much I needed that and had never felt it before in our marriage. I do believe we both learned a lot and we drew very close to one another's heart. Yeah!!! <BR>I loved your analogy...and your joke reminded me once again that my stubborn independence is not as wonderful a trait as I would like to believe. <BR> <P>

Sifted,<P>I hope you didn't take my reply as a criticism. It was not meant to be that. I realize you are in withdrawal. And I realize that most people in withdrawal see very little good in their spouse or their marriage. This is a very hard time for you.<P>But do understand something, your H is still there. That means to me there is love for you in your H. Am sure you feel your H has not carried his fair share of the load. However, this doesn't mean he isn't carrying a load right now. He probably feels that by still being there in the marriage he is demonstrating the depth of his feelings for you. Ah! the different languages.<P>There is so much I would like to tell you, but I don't know where to begin or if I should. But just because your H is quiet it doesn't mean that he isn't trying. Also remember something very important, he is not you. He doesn't respond to things the same and he doesn't act the same. This is not bad, but be very careful in expecting him to respond as you would if you were in his position. He doesn't know how to.<P>His position right now is not enviable. <P>I realize you are venting abit. This is a good place to do it. I believe it was you that finally came to the conclusion after reading schizzo's post that you had been trying to break things off with OM by yourself. While she and her H, broke it off with the OW. Keep giving your H the postings. <P>I have met few people in my life that enjoy dealing with pain, either theirs or someone they love. Your H is dealing with both your pain and his, just as you are. However, he has so little control, it is easy to step back. He cannot offer you advice (men are good at that), he cannot solve your problems for you (men are great at that , although I am sure he would love to), he does not deal in feeling well, because it is not his everyday life (although, he has had more feelings recently than he ever wanted).<P>Sifted, he may well be able to help you, if you put some of your needs in the form of a problem. I suggested this to another poster here. You want to talk and deal in feelings, he is best at problems. Make the things you need from him into something he can deal with, problems. Dealing with the OM and your withdrawal is a classic opportunity. You need help withdrawing, tell him your problem: You have a strong attraction of OM, you want to be with H and build a great marriage. Will he help solve your problem? I'll bet that if you approached this from that point of view using the posting you have given him as illustrations, he might open up more than you think. <P>I know you think it will hurt him to talk of this. It will, but it really hurts to feel absolutely powerless in a struggle that you see going on before you. If you let him into your thoughts, he can help you and it will help him. Honesty will really help here.<P>Finally, he is probably having a very hard time opening up to you. He doesn't trust you and he has been hurt. So hang in there and keep going you will do fine.<P>By the way, did you notice my post here. It turns into a problem solving exercise, not a source of comfort for you. Men! I can't do anything with myself, but be myself: a problem solver at heart. <P>Wings,<P>Thank you for your kind comments. It sounds to me like last night was a real breakthrough for you two. Keep up the work. I know it is hard, but you will make it.<P>You know stubborn independence, is fine for somethings but not marriages. Ironically, men are the ones usually accused of this: not asking for directions, not talking about pain, not talking about their life to there spouse, not talking at all . Heck we defined stubborn independence, but we sure get hammered for it. So I won't hammer you. , but think about what I said.<P>God Bless Both of You; Wings and Sifted,<P>JL