Well for those of you who have been around awhile, you know my story. I have been in a semi Plan B mode for awhile now not by choice. My h hates me and wants nothing to do with me. He blames me because my kids are currently not allowed to be around OW. My one son told me the other day that his Dad made him read a letter that the OW wrote where she said she wished that they can go on road trip with all the kids together and not just her kids. I think My h is getting pressure from her in a real bad why to include her in things.<P>I do my best to avoid him at all costs. I don't answer the phone when he calls. He sits alone in the outfield at the kids baseball games. I sit with all the other parents. He looks and acts very uncomfortable at these games as well. The other day after a victory the whole team and parents went back to the coaches house and he never showed. Thank GOd. But these are the things he loved most about the summer. Hanging out with friends and going to the kids games. <P>One of the mothers caught my ear at the party and she told me how everyone is so disgusted by what he has done to me and the kids. She also said that he will never be able to bring her to anyones home because all the women would never allow it. She said everyone knew she was on the prowl for the last few years and its a shame my h fell for her. <P>At any rate, I have been so busy lately and have not been able to sign on much. I still continue to go to counseling and my support group. I met a really nice guy in the group and he is such a sweetie. We went out to a movie the other night and I found myself really enjoying his company. This made me realize that this Plan B thing does work. I find I can still be strong but start to enjoy myself with other peoples company. <P>I'm not sure how I truly feel at this time. I do not see my h coming out of this fog. I see him sinking deeper and deeper into it. I tell people that I will always love my h and that he was the best. He always treated me great. I can not imagine finding another man that could make me as happy as he did. <P>But, I do not miss him that much anymore. In fact, I find myself thinking about this other man I met more than my h. I look forward to talking to this other person. <P>Not sure if this is an indication of my love totally dying for h or if its just me feeling good again about someone making me feel special. <P>Any advice for me out here tonight? Should I continue to talk to this other person who makes me feel good? I mean he has been through the same thing as me. It truly is nothing more than just a good friendship now. But, I feel it could develop into something serious if I let it. As I am writing this to you, I am thinking about him and not my h. I think h has been so rotten to me that he has totally emptied all the love deposits he had in his bank with me. <P>I'm just a rambling tonight. Lostva if you read this you are probably shouting No Missy don't do this. Well, its been 7 months of hell for me and I just don't see any change in h. <P>Also, this friend of mine had sent me a really nice e mail after we went out and he was saying how he enjoyed my company and that we are very compatible. Well I printed my e mails out but I accidently left that one out last night and today my h came over to watch the kids while I was at work and I just have this feeling that he read the e mail. Not sure of what he will make of that. I'll probably hear from his lawyer that I am bad for going out with someone of the opposite sex. I wonder if my h will be jealous that I am moving on with my life? What do you think???? I sware I did not leave it there on purpose. I would never want my kids to see it and it was all very innocent anyway in what he wrote. But, it kinda indicated that we both enjoyed each other company. <P>Oh well just thought I would update all of you on what has been going on in my life lately...<P>I am losing feelings for my h and I think I am ready to give up the fight. Why do I want a man like him anyway? He has become the single most selfish person I have ever met.

Hi Missy....<P>Not sure what I can offer you here. I know that people coming out of bad marriages fall into the "rebound-trap"...looking, subconsciously, for some validation and sense of self worth. Guess I would say be careful. And...(I'm probably no one to be sharing this given my failures) but if you are still married, does Plan B allow for dating other men? Just curious.<P>I'm sorry for all the meanness that your husband has demonstrated towards you. I guess that is one thing that kept me from leaving entirely. While my EA certainly inflicted much pain on my wife, there was no way I could come close to driving the 'death nail' into her heart and carrying on like your husband seems to have done. Not trying to pat myself on the back here...just shaking my head in wonderment...that but for the grace of God...I suppose I could have ended up there as well.<P>I am so sorry for the grief you are experencing.

Thanks No Mas! I am not sure if Plan B says anything about dating other men. I don't even think I think about it as dating. He truly is just a friend, but I think It could definetly lead to dating if I let it, which I haven't yet. Part of me feels like life is so short and when you have something in your life that feels good, why not let yourself enjoy it. I am still a married woman but my h has been living with this OW for 6 months now. Does my life need to stop while he carries on the way he does? Something about that stinks...<P>I got tell you thought, it sure does feel good to have that exciting feeling again even if nothing will ever come of it. <P>I too will never understand the hatred my h exhibits toward me. No one can. Eveyone shakes their heads in disbelief. He truly is a changed man.<P>Part of me thinks in another 6 months he will come to me and want to finally apologize for what he has put me through. The man I married could never treat me the way he has. I often wish he could be visited be the ghost of Chiristmas past, present and future so he can see what he had in his life and where his life is headed. <P>I do know that if he did want to come back to me and the kids, it will take so much courage on my part to undergo the reconciliation because of all the hurt I feel and lack of trust I have for him. Part of me thinks it will never work... <P>Perhaps the best I can hope for is good friends some day. I know I will forever be connected to him because of our kids. <P>Oh well I guess time will tell.

My guess is that this is an indication of "Plan D" "working", not Plan B. In all the months I have been here, almost invariably when someone says they are "losing their love" for their spouse, somewhere further down in the post they mention that there is someone else. <P>It is not a question of whether you have a "right" to date now, but whether you will regret it later.

missy:<P>What you're doing is definitely NOT plan B. <P>Plan B is:<P>1. Letting your spouse know that you believe in the marriage, and will continue to do so (via letter)<P>2. Letting them know that they are draining the remaining love you have for them by continuing the affair---so that you will no longer have contact with them until the affair is completely over.<P>3. If contact does occur during plan B, you are to be pleasant, but try to avoid meeting needs that your wayward spouse has.<P>4. You are to PROTECT THE REMAINING LOVE YOU HAVE FOR YOUR SPOUSE. That would mean that you would NOT have opposite sex friends, especially ones who you share your marital troubles with.<P>So your support group is completely out-of-bounds at this point. You're making all the classic mistakes of a "rebound" relationship---you're very needy, you're coming off of a very tough period in your life. If Attila the Hun shot a glance your way and grunted---you'd probably mistake him for Prince Charming!<P>I am exaggerating, but you clearly should break off any contact with this man and this support group. Find a different group of people to support you---all women. Make sure that they not only support "missy", but that they support your desire to reconcile your marriage.<P>When you've really lost all the love you have for your husband, you divorce him. There's no one else waiting in the wings. You do this because YOU'RE ready to. And then my suggestion to you would be to wait a while (3-6 months, minimum) before you "rejoin" the dating pool.<P>If you really believe that your husband will apologize to you in 6 months for his behavior---I'd say that you should do your best to wait it out. It's amazing how much a spouse's behavior will change once the affair is over---as much as you don't recognize the "bad" in your husband; you may have an opportunity to be shocked by the "good", if you give yourself time.

I have to be the black sheep here and disagree with some about quitting the support group and stopping contact with your friend. I would only stop contact if you knew that in the long run you would end up hurting this man due to your feelings for your husband. Have you told your friend that you still love your husband and hope that he returns? I would be totally honest about everything. Maybe reading the letter will show your husband that you are not dwelling on him or want to be a nuisance in his life since that is what he is telling everyone. Not every man is alike and just because Plan A or Plan B works on some doesn't mean it works on all. It may help to show your husband that another man see's all of the beautiful things in you that he once saw but can't due to his fog. Who know's it may work in your favor. I think you should continue taking care of yourself and keep doing what you are doing. You sound much happier. =

Missy, you need to be proactive at this point and not reactive. I know full and well how wonderful it is when another man listens, offers friendship...it won't stay merely a friendship. You need to decide if you want your marriage or if you want this man. What if your H did a turnaround? It took my H 2 years to do so.<P>I don't know if you are familiar with my story, I have a recent post GREAT UPDATE FOR GUARD AND ME and farther in thread I talk about the difficulty of having gotten involved with a man while I was doing what you're calling semi Plan B. It isn't B. All I can say is it is very likely you'll get hurt again or drag the pain of your marriage into this new relationship...even if the guy is a nice guy...your emotions are not unhooked from your H.<P>Take some time to heal yourself, but don't let the new guy be your bandage.<P>Wish I had done it that way.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Thanks everyone! I have to admit that the FRIENDSHIP I have with this other person might be helping me lose all the love I had left for my h. <P>Is that right? I'm just not sure.<P>Does he know how I feel about my h? Absolutely. But, he also feels my h does not deserve me. Which is how I feel too.<P>I would never think of giving up my support group. It is made up of mostly women with about 6-7 men. They have all given me such strength.<P>This friend of mine has gone thru the same pain. I understand the chances of a rebound relationship but I just don't see anything wrong in enjoying someone elses company. <P>Why should I sit at home and hope that my h will wake up? He shows no signs of it at all. <P>I sometimes agree with what others have said that with some people it might have more of an effect if they see you moving on with your life. If my h knows that i am going our with Other men, I think that would have more of an effect on him then just me sitting at home waiting for him to come back.<P>Please do not misunderstand anything I am saying. I would never do this on purpose to make my h jealous. I just do not at this point in my life see anything wrong with going out with someone to a movie.<P>I have gotten to the point where I get nothing from my h but hatred and for no reason. When someone else comes along and is friendly, kind, funny and caring( not to mention good looking HAHA) you can't help be pulled in that direction and want to have happiness in your life again. <P>I guess what i am saying is that I think Plan B can work in many different ways. <P>Lostva-if you are reading this, how do you think Robert would have acted if you started to date another man? Can you add that question to the list??? (when are the answers coming?)<P>Thanks again. Sorry if I am upsetting any people here today.

missy:<P>I'll be as "non-blunt" as possible: you're basically using all the justification scenarios that people having affairs use all the time.<P>1. It feels good...<BR>2. There's nothing wrong with it...<BR>3. We're just friends...<BR>4. My spouse doesn't treat me right, and this person does...<BR>5. I don't want to give it up...<P>The bottom line, from the BB's point of view is that you shouldn't taint the definition of Plan B with your current behavior. You're not plan B'ing right now. <P>You're dating. When you're extremely needy...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I just do not at this point in my life see anything wrong with going out with someone [who is friendly, kind, funny and caring(not to mention good looking HAHA)] to a movie.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're married. Continue in this pattern and you'll be making even more of a mess out of your life that it is right now. If you want to do all that fun stuff, serve your husband with divorce papers, and move on.<P>I'm not upset with you. I just have seen this pattern way too many times---and it always ends in a bad situation. Ask Lor---she lived through it. I'd try to stop you if you were on the street and we're about to step out into the path of a bus---consider this a similar situation.

K- I hear what you are saying and i do appreciate it. i do not see this as a justification and i do not see this as me having an affair. <P>My h left me 7 months ago. I have been through hell and back. I do not see anything wrong in having a friendship with someone that makes me feel good. In my h eyes, this marriage is over. In my eyes, there is only a 5% chance of it surviving at this point in time. To much hurt and pain has been caused. I don't know if i could ever trust my h again.<P>I guess what I am in is definetly not plan B I will give you that. I can not sit around anymore waiting for something that might never happen. In the meantime, if i meet someone who makes me feel good and that I enjoy I will continue to surround myself with that person. <P>They say there is a reason for everything. Maybe God felt that I needed more in my life and that is why this other person just happened to enter my life. <P>Who knows... No one knows what life will throw at you. Its what you do about it that counts. I have been a loving caring considerate wife to my h for 12 years. He can not say the same. I feel I deserve a man who can give me that in return. Just not certain if h is that man anymore. He has changed.<P>Time will tell..

missy:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In my eyes, there is only a 5% chance of it surviving at this point in time<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I bet before you met this guy, you felt it was more like 10%, or 20%. Now it's down to 5%. And if you keep this up, you'll get down to 0%.<P>Again, look to Lor as an example. She went through a lot---and then she found someone else. But she wasn't really "ready" for divorce, and when Guard actually started turning it around---she was the one dragging her feet.<P>I'd like to see you spare yourself the potential of that pain. God did not put this person in your life---maybe Satan, but not God. You do deserve a loving and supportive husband. But until you give yourself every chance in this marriage, and then divorce (if it doesn't work), you will get burned if you go shopping for opposite-sex company. I don't say this to be "tough" on you---but I think the direction you're headed in will cause you a lot of pain.<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited July 18, 2000).]

I guess I just don't like when you refer to me a shopping for another man. That is not what I am doing. <BR>I will follow up on Lor's story tonight when I get home. I also understand everything you are saying. I still feel like the hope is at about 5% but i have felt that way for a long time now. At least 3 months. <P>I guess when my h is acting and behaving so much different then he ever has, its tough to imagine him coming to his senses.<P>I also feel like i have time working against me. I keep hearing that affairs usually die out around 6 months after being exposed to the world. Well his is going on 7 now and it appears to be gaining steam. So,i think about that all the time as well.<P>I am not seeking out a boyfriend, I am seeking out a friend. Someone to go to the movies with. Someone to go to dinner with. <BR>Thats all at this point.....

Missy,<BR>I'm not trying to hammer you and I'm pretty sure neither K or I want to deprive you of comfort or companionship. I do hope you read my recent post on how things are currently, and Missy it is now over 2 years since my H's affair began and we're off to Mexico on a re-honeymoon this weekend. On my post you will also see where I thought that my OM was a gift from God after all my troubles, as you are wondering about your friend.<P>One thing I've realized is that it is pointless to compare hurts or situations or affairs, yet we all want to do that a little. Whatever you choose to do, I hope that you won't just go on unreliable "feelings" for this man, but you run it through your brain and your mind's MB folder.<P>Last week when I went alone to our marriage counselor and told him I still struggle daily with wanting to talk to the OM, because we were FRIENDS, I counted on the OM in ways I'm still uncovering, and once my H & I were separated the last time, there were days the OM & I talked several times a day, and saw each other in the evening, he was very much a part of my life, it felt as if he was in my breathing pattern. Anyway, the counselor told me, "I told you that you can call ME any time, you have my home number. You have your prayer partner. Why is it that you don't yearn to call us? What is it that you hear from this man?" I babbled some stuff--he's very positive, tells me I'll be okay, lists my good qualities, etc. The counselor said, "I do that, Mary your prayer partner probably does that...I'll tell you why we aren't the ones you want to call, we aren't available for any kind of romantic relationship. We don't talk about sweeping you away from all your pain."<P>Missy, my concern is for you. If all you needed was a friend to talk to, or go to the movies with, you could choose a female friend. It isn't what you post here on the board that truly matters, it is what you are telling yourself, don't deceive yourself. Your "goodlooking ha ha" pretty much tells the whole story, at least to me. You could read some of my posts from Oct 99 and see pretty much the same thing that I said about my friend: "charming, funny, smart, sexy"--and I believed I could keep it a friendship, he told me I could as well...<P>Missy, if you've read SAA, you know the rest, as a betrayed, you are vulnerable. There are still days I am swarmed by men...and there's even been a couple women... hitting on me because that is still the signal I give off, much as I'm wanting to give off NO signals. Even if your guy is a great guy, and not a predator, and I certainly hope he isn't, my friend wasn't...why is he spending so much time with a woman who isn't really available? What baggage is he carrying? Everyone is carrying something. Pay attention to what he tells you about how he treated other women, or how his relationships end. Just be smart. Smarter than me, and I thought I was awful dang smart after being on MB for a year, now 19 months.<P>And, good grief, here I am, reconciling with my H 2 long years after his affair began, and trying to keep all thoughts of the OM out of my mind and making a long post about the OM. Cripes. <P>Take care Missy.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

I guess I am going to be black sheep #2, and considering that my W had an affair, it may be somewhat surprising to some that I would have to say that I agree with missy9. If your husband has left you, a decision that as a grown man, he made alone, he has abandoned you, your family and your marriage, and over a 7 month time period. If you have given your all, that is all that you can do, you can't make your husband come back to you if he doesn't want to. I do think that if you don't think there will be a marriage, file for divorce. If you think there is a chance, then I would Plan B, but at the same time, let both your friend and your husband know where you stand on things. I think it is very unrealistic and unfair for people to think that you are supposed to just sit around the house "waiting" for your husband to come "out of the fog." I as a betrayed spouse still recognize that you are indeed still a human being, a real flesh and bones person, my advice is to not give up your support group and continue to see your friend if that what makes you feel good, as long as he knows the entire situation, he is a grown man who can make his own decisions and take his own chances.<P>While I do agree that this board is for people that are working to restore their marriages, I have not, nor will I ever be a believer in simply being a doormat, sitting around waiting for a WS to come home. I believe in Plan A, to a certain extent, as I believe in Plan B, to a certain extent. Everyone has different needs and different limits. From what you have written, I don't believe you are "shopping" either, I simply see a human being hurting and lonely, if your husband doesn't want to be a husband and this other man is filling that void, and he knows up front all the variables, then I see nothing wrong with having him as a friend..........and this is coming from a betrayed man.<p>[This message has been edited by F A (edited July 18, 2000).]

Hi there,<P> I KNOW this is NOT the Harley way but with all that Lor went through...from where I sit I wonder if the fact that she DID find someone else bring her H back? All of a sudden he was losing her.It just seems that I have seen it happen over and over on the different boards that I am on. <P> Not trying to cause controversy but something to think about......LU

Hi Lor , <P> Looks like we were posting at the same time....I sure don't mean to act like I"m the expert on your situation....hope you weren't offended! LU

I'll jump in. (This is a rhetorical question. No need for a response) Why are you so upset you're husband is having an affair? Because you believe in the sanctity of marriage & what it stands for.<P>If it's okay for you to date while married, then why isn't it for your h?<P>as k said, "You're married. Continue in this pattern and you'll be making even more of a mess out of your life that it is right now. If you want to do all that fun stuff, serve your husband with divorce papers, and move on."<P>I'm not trying to jump on you, but I've seen it time & time again. It all starts out so innocent...<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Lu, I have seen it happen that the betrayed spouse finds some else & the betrayer "wakes up." However, most of the time it really throws a monkey wrench in the works for both spouses. Besides, we are wanting the marriage to work & NOT getting involved with someone else is by far the <B>easiest</B> road to take.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Hi Chris,<P> I know, I know, but it sure seems like you see it alot......You're absolutely right about the monkey wrench thing butI've known quite a few couples who have reconciled after the betrayed "gave up and moved on".<P>I guess in a way, a good Plan B does somewhat of the same.....since the betrayer is no longer in contact with the betraying spouse , the betrayer might start to wonder where they stand(in spite of the letter). <P>Anyway, how's things Chris? Did you have any travel adventures like last summer? (It's hard to believe it's been a year!) LU

To wrap up the points that Lu and FA made...<P>I made some of the same mistakes missy was making while I was in my Plan B. I caught them very early (appropriately whipped by Steve), but it's NOT the time to be emotionally involved with someone else.<P>This isn't to be mean. If I thought that some good would come out of missy's friendship (or the "support" of this group---I'd be all for it. But I have yet to see ONE SINGLE INSTANCE on these boards where this type of relationship ended up helping the desperate, lonely, needy, betrayed spouse. Not one. I know of several in which there was pain---ranging to relatively minor to pretty major. So from my "data" of being here for a couple years and observing and coachiing people, I'd say AVOID THIS SITUATION. And I'd say it as strongly as I'd tell someone who's contemplating an affair to not do that---this is pretty much a "lose-lose" situation.