Hi,<BR> My H just left for the second time in a year. It was a year ago July 29th in fact so his timing is good.<BR>I'm so torn up inside, I really thought we were doing good and then "WHAM" he decides he's not happy here and leaves. I know there is another woman involved he just isn't telling me. I'm just so sad. How did you survive being left twice? I feel worth less than nothing right now. I tried so hard to be what he wanted and here I am alone anyway. We have been married almost 18 years now half of my life. Do I hang on or do I throw in the towel and move forward. I know this site is for marriage building but I don't feel like there is any land left to build my marriage on.<P>Jill

Oh Jill,<P>I'm just so sorry he's done this to you. Can you tell us what led up to his leaving? How do you know there is an OW? Are you absolutley sure? Were you guys fighting a lot or not seeing much of each other?<P>If he is a serial cheater, than I don't know...maybe it's time to let him go. I hate to see any of us hurt over and over again, but then again, Look at Lora's posts...they have been seperated like 7 times and are renewing their vows soon. I guess only you will know when enough is enough.<P>Please take care of yourself. This is just the hardest thing. Can you get away for a few days? I'm sure your H is thinking too about how awful this is, and how much hurt he is causing you. Give this one a little time.<P>Remember, Lostva's H wanted to leave after he came home too...there is hope out there. We see it time after time on these boards. I don't think you're ready to give up yet. <P>Take care of yourself.<BR>allison

I am terribly sorry. Do you think he left for the same OW, or a different one? Was he receiving treatment for depression?<P>All I know is that when there is something wrong with the state of the marriage, people try to work on it before possibly leaving. They don't just suddenly announce that they are not happy. When people say out of the blue that they are not happy and leave, it is always not about the marriage, but about them, and it usually involves an attempt at self-treating depression with an affair.

Allison, <BR> I know there is another woman. I'm just not sure how involved he is with her. I feel really stupid, I was here giving advice on recovery and here I am again. We had been back together now since October, we even went on a second honeymoon together. I just don't get it.<BR>I know he is thinking about the hurt he has caused me and the kids and I know he feels bad but he just can't help himself. I guess until he helps himself there will be no hope for us.<BR>Nellie,<BR> H has been on prozac now since December and was doing really good. I have noticed a change in his mood and talked to him about calling the Dr but he refused saying he was fine. I agree though and he does to that it is more problems with him than anything. I just don't know if I have the strength left to keep dealing with it.<P>Thanks for all of your support<P>Jill

Crazy or What,<P>Please don't doubt that the advice you have given to others was any less than wonderful. You have helped so many others here and you will continue to. You are helping us now, because this seems to happen a lot around here. <P>So, he didn't stick this time. He is confused again and involved somehow with another woman. It's just a nightmare isn't it? <P>What brought him home in October? How was recovery really going? Were you both working on all the EN stuff? <P>I can't honestly say what I would do if I were in your place. It sure would be a lot easier to give up and protect myself from further hurt. I guess I'd need to get all the info from H that he would give. Can you find a nuetral place that you guys can talk honestly about what the hell he's doing? He owes you that. <P>I hate to see you so discouraged, but I absolutley understand it. I give you credit for not going out and finding him and demanding an explanation. You seem to be doing a good job of staying calm. But, this is not out of your hands...you get a vote. You can decide if YOU want to continue to work on it. Take some of the power back.<P>I am so sorry for your pain.<BR>allison

Hi Jill:<BR>Chin up girl. I feel when reading your posts that I have gone through the same things. My h came back to me and the kids for about 6 months. <BR>WE went to counseling but he lied through the entire thing. He was not ready to be back. He did it more because of all the pressure he was getting from family and friends. Everyone kept telling him he was out of his mind. <P>Looking back, I wouldn't be surprised if he had this planned with OW. I truly believe that what is going on with my h is something deep inside of him. I say this because we had a very good marriage and he tells me that as well. He just says that when it comes to the OW he just can't help himself. He has changed so much in the last 2 years and to be honest, I don't care for the man he has become. If he is going to wake up, it has to come from him. There is nothing I can do to help that. <P>I think what you should do right now is go into Plan B mode. Read up on what Plan B is all about as some people think of it as different things. <P>Let him see what life without you is all about. Don't make yourself available to him. <BR>I say eventually he will come to realize this on his own and then he will be truly ready to work on the marriage. <P>In the meantime, keep yourself very busy. I am so busy that I usually don't have much time to sign on anymore. It is helping me so much. I also got myself to the doctors and got on some medication that has made a huge difference in my mood. I highly recommend it. It just helps you cope and concentrate on other things instead of being consummed 24/7 with this horrible ordeal you are going thru. <P>I have to say that today I feel like a much stronger person. I am living for myself and my kids. I miss the companionship of a spouse but I do not miss my spouse. <P>I hope this help you. I will keep you in my prayers. <P>Missy

Hi, C or W<P>I fall into the H left more than once catagory.<P>Mine left July of 97, returned in July of 98 and left again in July of 99. Funny how they seem to take off in the same month each time, isn't it? Hopefully my H's return last month (June) has broken the cycle of his leaving. <P>I too thought everything was going so well when he told me he had to go back to her. I was being the perect wife. His every need was being met by me. The things I couldn't give him were A) A bussiness opportunity that could net him millions B) A Life that revolved around him ONLY. You see she put him on a pedistal and she put everything second to him, including her own children, her bills, her life in general. That to me is not love that is obsession.<P>I never suffered from a lack of self esteem after he left the second time. My attitude was and is that it was HIS problems that led him astray again. I felt more that I was too good for him rather than he was too good to want me. <P>Yes it hurts. In fact the second leaving was harder for our children as he had sworn on his life he was back forever. They still don't trust him and right now they still don't even like him. But we are working on that.<P>I didn't try to fight his leaving. I tried before he left to talk some sense into him, but once he left I held the attitude that he needs to do whatever it takes to make him happy. But I made it VERY clear to him I needed to and would do the same.<P>I started to ready the house for sale. I flew 2000 miles away to look for a new home. I told him I could never be happy having him and his mistress living anywhere near me. So if he had the right to be happy with her then I had the right to be happy with whomever and whereever I so did choose. I didn't plan B. I continued plan A, as I felt it was more important now that he sees exactly what he was giving up.<P>He tells me the truning point for him was the weekend of my birthday (Oct 99), just 4 months after he had left the second time. OW took him on vacation. (What a coincedence she planned this on my birthday weekend. But she got the same feeling only doubled last month when he left her and returned to me two days before her birthday) He told me all he could think of while they were in Fla is what he would be doing if *I* was there with him. How it just didn't feel right to be on vacation with her and not me. He said that is when he KNEW he had made a dreadful mistake.<P>You know you did eveything you could to put your marriage back together. He just wasn't doing his share, for whatever reason. Don't blame yourself.<P>Hold your head high. You not only were forgiving by taking him back you were the bigger person. You have nothing to be ashamed of, he does.<P>He gave up la la land to return to you. But you, no matter how well you meet all of his needs, are stil a part of reality, because you are real not a fantasy. You can't stroll around the house dressed in a gater belt and nylons with a cocktail in you hand when he gets home from work. You will more likely be dressed in shorts and tennies with dinner on the stove, a kid or two arguing about a TV show and in need of a nap! Hoepfully he will come to the realization that the fantasy is just a fantasy and eventually the OW will begin to show signs of being a real human being, and not just the persona she manufactured to snag your husband.<P>It is up to you if you want to try to go through this all again. I did it was worth it for me, or at least so far it has been.<P>One time a friend of mine told me she thought I was a jerk for taking him back. I told her I was the smart one. He was the jerk for leaving to begin with. <P>Most important do things for YOU now. Let him see what a great person you are and will be even without him. Don't try to be what you think he wants. Just be you. That is the person he fell in love with 18 years ago. Hopefully he will see her and realize that that is the person he still loves and wants to be with. <P>FC<P>

Missy - Thanks for all of your input. Yes I think I'm going to do a modified plan B. Plan A worked the last time for him but it didn't last. This time I am doing plan B for me. I need to regain control of myself. I need to move forward and enjoy life for a change. This last year was mainly about him getting over OW. Now that it is over he is unsettled again and on to OW#2. I'm not totaly closing the door on him coming back again somday but it is going to take alot more than just him asking me this time. In the mean time I plan on having fun. I have to work alot more to make ends meet but hey thats ok I'm doing it for me and the kids. As for seeing him I don't plan on it any time soon. I have spoiled him rotten for 18 yrs and its time he gets a taste of what the real world is like. Even last year when he was with OW I still took care of him. Not this time he is on his own. <BR>I know I will miss him. We have alawys been the best of friends and talked all of the time. Maybe we can still have that friendship someday and not be married I don't know. I guess it's just one day at a time. <BR>I have been on prozac this year for pms symptoms. I went off of it a few months ago mainly because I gained 25 lbs in 3 months. So far I'm coping really well this time.<BR>FC,<BR> You have gone through this July thing to haven't you. It's not bad enough that I was dreading to have to make it through these summer months thinking about what he had done to me but then he does it again. <BR>Like you I am alot stronger this time. Infact for the most part it doesn't bother me to much. I have been working on getting my financial ducks in a row and pretty much still doing my daily living. I think I'm going to do a modified plan B. I will still be here for him as a friend but I'm not going to continue to be his wife like I did last time. I need to build myself up right now and well this is his mistake not mine and I'm not going to let his insanity rule my life any longer. Miss him? Yes, he is my best friend, we talk about everything together. I kind of neglected my other friends this year to work on my marriage so I have some fence mending to do there also. <BR>I'm glad that you and your H were able to work things out. I do hope that someday my H will come back to me the way he was before all of this started to happen a year ago.<BR>Thanks so much for your support to both you and missy.<P>Jill<BR>

Hey Jill,<P>Count me in, my H has left me twice in the last 9.5 years.<P>First time was in late 1991 and returned in early 1993. Left for another woman, and while he was out he fathered 2 OC, one w/OW and with a one night stand woman.<P>Second time he left me was April 29th at 3:39 pm 2000'. He left me for OW #2 (one night stand woman) and she has OC from my H, now that feels real good! And to place a cherry on my cake of my year ... OW is a Banshee and harasses me because she hates ME for my H not participating in her OC's life the first 7 years. She wants revenge and blames it all on me. Plus I'm married to him and that pisses her off too. I guess my mere existence is an LB in her eyes.<P>I'm so sorry Jill, I know you hurt, Hon. It's so very very devistating. You're such a strong woman and have helped many of us here with sound caring advice, myself included.<P>You need to try and put things in perspective and live in the moment for now. Each day will get a little easier, I promise you this. They're baby steps but it does get better.<P>And as far as your H goes, there is still hope, you just need to take care of you right now. We are here for you , Jill. Whenever you need us, we care about you!<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 25, 2000).]

Hi Jill:<P>Count me among the left more then once.<P>Hy husband left 5 years ago in May, back in December, was thrown out two years later in May, was taken back due to major illiness in 3 months, was thrown out again in May of this year.....all over the same OW. For me it appears May is the bad month.<P>I think yours, mine, Jo's, FC's and Missy's stories show just how much this is the WS's problem, not simply a matter of EN not being fulfilled.<P>Although I will admit that my H's emotional needs were not being met as adequately as possible, I think his real reasons for leaving are inside himself and have very little to do with me...except for the fact that he thinks he has failed me.<P>After all, my emotional needs weren't being met either and I have stayed through all of it.<P>They all have their reasons...not getting what they want from marriage, not enough sex or too little intimacy, b**chy wife, not interested in same things, the list is endless. But we can fulfill all their emotional needs and they would still leave...because what is lacking is inside...where no one but themselves can reach.<P>So all we can do is let them leave, devote our time to ourselves for a change and make us the best person we can be, be a friend when they needed it, and let God take care of the rest. <P>If they are capable of learning, then maybe someday they will learn and maybe be back. If not, then we can move forward, knowing that we have done all we can do to save a marriage, a lot more than most people will ever do. <P>This isn't to say I won't try my best to work on the EN needs I feel I neglected, although I think when your own needs are neglected you have little or no incentive to make the special effort to try and meet someone elses needs.<P>So don't feel bad about this, there are a lot of us here, and everyone and every experience has a bit of a lesson to teach us if we'll learn.<P>As with my H, I think your H knows where he really needs to be, he just lacks the backbone right now to make himself do it...so he returns to what is easier for him or what makes him feel better.<P>I agree it's time for Plan B if you're strong enough and you think that you can no longer Plan A without loving love for your H.<P>Or just set him free, let him know he's free and wait to see what happens.<P>Buffy<P><BR> <P> <p>[This message has been edited by buffy (edited July 25, 2000).]

Buffy and Joe- You are so right in what you said. The thing is my H knows its him. He says its nothing I did. He says I have been the best wife he could have ever wanted. He just has the need for something different he just doesn't know what it is yet. He has always been this way with everything. We have had about 16 different vehicles in 17+ years. He has never been happy with anything very long. I guess it just makes sense that someday it would be his family he was unhappy with. His discontentment has been hard to live with all of these years. I think now that I look back that I really focused on what made him happy so I didn't have to dael with his unhappy periods. Like today, I went to the grocery store and didn't know what to buy because I have always shopped for the things he liked. <BR>So yes you are right it is that they live with some insecurities and until they deal with them they will never be happy. I guess that really makes me sad because I really don't want to see him miserable for the rest of his life. I right now don't know if I can be married to him anymore but I guess I will never be able to entirely turn my back on him.<BR>So for now as you said I am going to be the person I want to be , do the things I want to do, and try to be the best Mom, friend , woman I can be. Thank you for all of your support all of you. I never would have made it without this board last year and ditto for this year. Because of you all I'm able to put things in perspective.<P>Love ya all<P>Jill

Jill,<P>I know exactly what you mean about grocery shopping.<P>First time I shopped for myself aft H left I didn't know what to buy. I kept picking up the standards (standards = H's Favs) and then putting them back on the shelf. I had to keep going into their bathroom to cry and come back out and try again.<P>I ended up buying just TV dinners and some fruit and ice cream. I cried all the way home. I still have a hard time shopping for myself, it was one of the things I really enjoyed, you know ... filling up my cart with great food he loved and then coming home and he and I would put it away together. He use to love it when I'd buy him special stuff, like sushi and kimchee and rubarb chard.<P>Oh fine ... now my eyes are starting to well-up with tears just typing this .. gawd I miss him .... BUT BUT BUT "I Don't Miss the infidelity CRAP!"<P>Guess I got off the subject a bit, what were we talking about...???<P>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited July 26, 2000).]

Jo, I guess I'm lucky because I still have three hungry teenagers in the house. So I still get to shop for them. I'm sorry you are feeling so lonely tonight. I'm sure it will be hitting me soon usually does about this time of the night. Oh well just try and think of anything but missing him.<P>Jill

<BR>Hi Again:<P>Just a thought when you mentioned wanting something different. How about obsessing over something for a while...almost manic about it...and then forgeting about for months on end...then moving on to something else? Does your H do this? <P>Mine would get interested in something, make notebooks about it, going into elaborate details about doing it, do it manically for a while and then drop it. Should have expected if every got OW would be same way about her and he is...of course OW was the last thing I ever expected.<P>If he is true to form, and he has been in the last five years, he will get tired of OW before too long and want to come back...when the newest has worn off. I never thought about it this way before, but maybe there is a pattern to this. This is actually his pattern with other things he has gotten manic about. Sounds like OW could be in for a surprise, huh, if she thinks this is all settled in her favor.<P>Just a thought.<P>Buffy<P><BR> <P><BR>

Jill - I fall into this category also. Mike and I came out to MN in 95 for a visit - and had plans to go to WI to look at a convenience store/house that was for sale. Mike kept delaying us going to WI, and stayed and stayed here in MN and I booked a flight home. Now I realize that there was an OW.<P>He came back home (CA) after 5 months because his X had moved away and his daughter wanted to move in with me. He saw this as the opportunity to have his kids again, so he moved back home. Continual deception for a years straight since 95.<P>96, left us without warning. Hadn't paid the bills for 90 days, so everything was due to be shut off. He needed "leaving money". By the grace of God I didn't lose my house, we eat, and the utilities stayed on. <P>I got into the word, and prayed like crazy, and finally I joined him in MN. I suspected an affair, and I was right. He finally had a partial disclosure Dec99, only by saying he encountered an "almost mistake". ha ha. sure. <P>It has looked so hopeless so many times, it is unbelievable. But, God is good.<P>Sending a hug from your neighbor to the north.<BR>TNT

TNT- Is it the water here in Mn or what?<BR>Seems to be alot of us minnesotans here on this board. <BR>I to am left here with bills up the wazoo and no way to pay them. Oh well hopefully people will give me a little mercy. I'm glad so far so good for you. Thanks for the hug I needed it! <P>Love your neighbor to the south<P>Jill<BR><p>[This message has been edited by crazy or what? (edited July 26, 2000).]

Minnesota ... isn't that Fargo Land? You betcha!<P>We here in the NW thought Western WA was riddled with infidelity. I think it's our weather, gray skys and rain 90% of the year.<P>Jo