I need advice! About a month ago, I ended my emotional affair with OW who works in the same facility, in an adjacent department. I told her that I could have no contact, that I needed to put my effort into salvaging my marriage. She took it pretty good and had seemed to be slowly leaving our relationship anyway, which made my job of telling her easier.<BR>Things were going pretty good, both of us abiding by our agreement, trying to stay out of each others way. Only contact was basically "hi" when passing in the hallways.<BR>Last week, she came to my work area, asking me how things are going. I said, "fine, but I'm trying to step back from things and get some perspective." On the pretense of having to get something done, I then left the area.<BR>Today, in the hall, she stops me and wants to talk about her trip out of town this coming weekend with her son. I reminded her of "no contact", and this is making it harder on me. She stomps off.<BR>I'm doing the best I can. I can't just quit my job (too much seniority, pay, and vacation time to lose, plus mortgage and car payment and braces...)<BR>But old feelings return when I see her, making it hard to have a good attitude about working on my difficult marriage. Can I get the point across to her without getting nasty? Remember, I see this lady nearly everyday and she could make life hard for me at work if she really wanted to.<BR>Your comments would be appreciated right now!<BR>Pilgrim

This has to be one of the hardest positions to be in...<P>All I can say is...<BR>try and be courteous and just say no... <B>no contact</B>.<P>Over.. and over... and over again.<P>It is hard...<BR>It's walking on egg shells...<P>When those "feelings" come back, think of the hell she has/is putting your W through!<P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited December 07, 1999).]

Pilgrim, I was in your position as well, but I was fortunate enough to be able to quit my job.<P>All I can say is remain cordial to her, I know it wreaks havoc on your feelings, and that's why I think it's so important to get distance between you and the OP. I don't think I could have begun to get over him if I hadn't quit my job. But about 2 weeks after I left, it was like a cloud lifted, and I was left wondering why in the heck I even did that!<P>But, since you cannot quit, try your best to be polite, not overly friendly. Business-like, and really try to put an emotional distance between the two of you. I think that it's going to be very hard, but if there is no other choice, emotionally distancing yourself is the only other choice. Good luck.

I am in your position, and the <B>only</B> way I got the OM to leave me alone was to be mean. I tried being nice, I tried being cordial, friendly, and less-than-friendly. <P>Finally, I had to lay it on the line:<P>Don't send me jokes on email unless you are sending them to everyone else (and that served two purposes: it wouldn't arouse suspicion with co-workers when they all got the joke and I was left out, and he wouldn't dare send a nasty joke to everyone, but used to send them to me personally quite often - and I stopped all email contact too, unless under the same conditions). But then, I just stopped sending any to him, and I did not reply to any of his that looked like they might not be work-related.<P>Don't come in my office unless absolutely necessary, and not at all if the door is closed. The last time he came into my office it was under the pretense of telling me the blood mobile was outside. He wasn't aware that my H and son were in my office. My H said, "I thought it was no contact unless work related?" and right he was. Now, he doesn't even come within 10 feet of my office without expressed permission. Seriously. I find that if I give an inch, as the saying goes, he'll take a mile.<P>I don't go anywhere with him, even in a group. We had a luncheon for someone retiring, and I went with one woman, but rode back to work with several in his car. Guess who dropped by to visit me at work and saw me get out of his car? Yup, my H. He never got over that.<P>If I'm walking somewhere with people from the office, I purposely walk to the other side of the group. If he moves, so do I. <P>I don't sit by him in meetings, I don't look at him or give eye contact when I pass him. I do say good morning and good night, but more so that those who aren't aware in the office won't be tipped off. The fewer people who know the better.<P>I am right now trying to decide how to handle Christmas. We've already received cards from some workers, and he and I work directly together. I don't want to give him a card and don't want to receive one either. That's a toughie. <P>All of these actions will remain in force no matter what happens with my H (we are not doing well at all). The OM lives with a woman (common-law marriage) and he was never mine to have, nor me his. Yeah, it's a lot of work, but it has to be done.<P>You can do it, but it's very difficult... best wishes to you...<BR>

The responses so far have been good but I feel compelled to throw my 2 cents in. Everyone has given reasonable suggestions on how to deal with this OW but I'm afraid my perspective is different - my question is "how do you expect reasonable suggestions to work in unreasonable circumstances with perhaps unreasonable people?" Yes, my H said "no contact" and she would drop by his office with pictures of her son, want to make small talk still, etc. He dutifully reported these to me as we agreed. Maybe this was a game to her, maybe she wanted to keep things "ready" in case I came completely unglued (no luck I'm a pretty tough cookie - and redheaded to boot!)Perhaps there have been a few long-term success stories where the people were able to keep working and keep their marriage. For me, as the betrayed, I don't care if there was no contact (okay I do) but I didn't feel comfortable AT ALL until my H found a new job (and guess what, it pays more money and is closer to home). It took a few months but I can tell you that during those months, it was pure hell for me - so keep up the "no contact" mantra and DO contact a recruiter !<BR>

When you say you "can't" leave your job, you are really just saying that it may cause hardship and negative consequences.<P>Of course you do not want to put additional burden on your family and maybe there are things you can do to control the contact and maybe a bit more time will make it better.<P>But maybe not. <P>How important is your marriage and family? Could you routinely say "Do you want fries with that?" if it would mean keeping your marriage and family together?<P>I'm betting your family would rather have you than the financial security. <P>If your current job threatens your recovery or keeps you from thriving in your marriage, you may have to make that choice.<P>"Can't" isn't accurate. There may be grave consequences to changing jobs, but the consequences to your life may be graver if you stay.<P>For the moment, try stone cold instead of nasty. Shift uncomfortably if she stops you, avoid eye contact or give a cold disinterested stare. Fold your arms in front of you. And think to yourself...this woman is threatening my wife and children this moment, I must get away. Or my personal favorite. DOES THIS HONOR MY MARRIAGE? In fact you could say that. Sorry, OW, speaking with you is not honoring my marriage, I must walk away."<P>And how about wearing Nike's to the office so you can run away at great speed?<P>Best of luck!<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Pilgrim,<P>You have received some sound advice here already. I put my vote in for looking for another job. I said look. You never know what might surface.<P>It also sounds like maybe the personnel department at your work place may be of help. Remember this is the 90's and sexual harrassment laws are there to protect anyone from unwanted contact. I'm a consultant and one of my clients is a large fortune 500 company. They would have zero tolerance for soem of what you have endured. Talk to personnel. What you tell them must be kept confidential and they can outline what rights you have and the proper steps that you can take should unwanted contact continue.<P>What ever you do, do not give in. Keep first and formost in your mind that this person couldn't possibly really care about you because they are disregarding your wishes. They are interested in themselves only or they wouldn't go against your wishes.<P>Hang in there!

First off, new beginning, I can't offer you any advice for your own situation, just heartfelt symphathy and prayers. It must be unerving and frustrating. Perhaps a separation would give a different perspective on your situation?<BR>I have so appreciated the wide-range of ideas and angles to consider. Sometimes it's hard to evaluate one's situation from one's own perspective. Your ideas are giving me some renewed energy and vigor to fight for my marriage.<BR>NSR - "No contact" will be my daily mantra and I will redouble my efforts to avoid any contact.<BR>Connor - emotional distancing has helped make this situation easier with each passing day.<BR>Athena - you're a redhead? So is my wife. She's very uncomfortable and is talking, "look for new job". It's hard on her.<BR>Faith, Hope, Love - you called me on the carpet there. It's true, "can't" is a weak, innacurate word. I'll try the "freeze out" method. And I'll wear my Saucony running shoes. I seem to run faster in those! <BR>Mudder - I am making moves to update my resume and at least trying to see what's out there. Right now, talking to Human Resources may not be a good idea for me - they've recently taken a very hard line against anything that smacks of sexual harrassment and have fired several people. Some have brought suit against my place of employment. I'm just afraid OW, if she gets angry enough, might try to turn any complaint I have against her back to me, and I just wonder, whom would they be more symphathetic to?<BR>Thanks all. I'm glad I found this place. It has made a real difference in my world. God bless you all.<BR>Pilgrim <BR><p>[This message has been edited by pilgrim (edited December 08, 1999).]

Pilgrim, you have my sympathy. I just posted a question about a problem my H is having with OW--he's made every attempt to put her out of his life but she won't let go and now claims she's pg. <BR>The emotions and feelings of worry and panic you describe are so therapeutic for me--I imagine that's what he must be going through, and how desperate he is to put this behind him. You seem to be a little like him; do you have any advice for me on how to make this easier for him? After all, I firmly believe that we BOTH need to heal...

Barrie,<BR>Thanks for the encouragement of your symphathy. It's nice to know others feel what I'm going through and are with me in this.<BR>Advice for you? Well, for one thing, you need to be extra loving, supportive, and give him every reason to want to be with you, without seeming desperate to keep him. Nagging, demanding, haranging that he stay away from her, will, if he's like me, just make him feel resentful and rebellious.<BR>It is important for him to know that if he can do everything within his power to avoid her, not see her, not talk to her, not email her, or receive emails from her, it will be easier to go through withdrawal. It's true, with every contact, you start back at square one and have to start withdrawal all over again. Believe me, it ain't no fun - it's the worse kind of emotional rollercoaster ride and it's tough on both of you. <BR>Some questions for you. Why does he want to end the relationship with her? Is it because she is claiming that she is pregnant, or is it because he thinks he might be better off with you? How badly does he want to end that relationship? I vacillated for awhile, and that made things infinitely more difficult for us. How easy is it for him to avoid her? Is she someone he works with? Try to think of positive, non-threatening ways you can help him work through those issues.<BR>Good luck. Let me know how you are doing. <BR>Pilgrim

Pilgrim,<P>I'm in line with the others that say find a nw job.<P>Dr. Harley says extreme measures MUST be taken to ensure no contact.<P>Does your company have another division you could transfer to?<P>Do you tell W when OW talks to you?<BR>Honesty is of utmost importance.<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

WmJ,<BR>Thanks for your post and advice. Searching for a new job is something I am giving consideration to. I work in the radiologic services department of a hospital, so there is no choice for me but to look elsewhere for a job. I don't see that as a big problem; there are many fine hospitals in this city, and I have a wide range of skills in my profession which would garner me a position without much problem. At least I would hope so!<BR>Coming to the problem at hand, the OW. This is where I think we stand, but maybe your detached point of view might be helpful in how I deal with the situation. The OW and I have a long history of knowing each other, about 14 years. Early in our acquaintance, she propositioned me when her marriage failed. I declined her offer, saying I could not betray my wife. Fast forward 12 years, my marriage in trouble, she's single, has always been flirtatious and friendly with me. I approach her this time. I had an opportunity to make it sexual but I chickened out. Affair was more emotional than physical and in the last couple of months it had dwindled to nothing except sporadic conversations in the halls at work. After my "no contact" talk, she pretty well left me alone, except for the occasions I mentioned. I think she is moving out of the relationship, but I'm not sure. I only know that every time I see her or talk to her that it makes it that much harder for me to work on my marriage, because I believe I am still addicted to her. Sometimes I'm not really motivated to do work on the marriage because I'm having trouble getting over the fact that my wife betrayed me! You know how confusing things can get! I know "no contact" means just that. But it may mean I have no choice but to move on to a new job. Uggh.<BR>Yes, I tell my W about any contact I have with OW. She goes ballistic! Honesty is not easy when you are almost afraid of the response, but I owe it to her. But she has always been possessive and jealous even when I was a "good boy" for 19 years of our marriage. I guess relieving her insecurity is another good reason for looking for another job, though, isn't it?<BR>I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this subject.<BR>By the way, I've read some of your other posts, and am impressed with how you are dealing with your own "cross".<BR>Pilgrim <p>[This message has been edited by pilgrim (edited December 12, 1999).]

Barrie,<BR>Thanks for posting a new profile. It fills in a lot of blank spaces and answers a few questions.<BR>You've got a can of worms to deal with, but haven't we all? This is a great place to get a lot of good help from the "trenches".<BR>One issue you've both got to work through - the possible pg by your s/o. If OW is lying, and she may very well be lying if she is addicted to your s/o, then the pregnancy problem will be resolved. However, if she is pregnant, and the child is his, how do you propose to handle that problem? He has a moral, ethical responsibility to provide for the child. If the child is his, can you deal with the idea that he might help pay for an abortion, if he and OW go that route? Do you think OW, if she choses to carry the child to term, would be willing to give up custody of child to you and your s/o? I think probably not. By the way, is he your s/o, or husband? I'm not sure on that point yet.<BR>He assures you that he only wants you now. Good. But let me ask these hard questions. Can you really trust him? What will happen if he gets to a place where he's lonely again? Do you want him if he's willing to walk away from a woman who may be carrying his child? Look carefully at his character. Does he keep his word? Is he a morally and ethically responsible person? You may have forgiven him, and that's good! I applaud you. You are a lot further down that road than I am. I'm still having trouble forgiving my wife of 20 years!<BR>Be kind and true to yourself. Take a good, dirt-honest look at your situation. If you can truly trust him, do everything you can to work through your problems here and leave OW behind. But beware that, if what she says is true, you are in for a "long row to hoe" as we say here in Oklahoma.<BR>Let me know how things are going. I'll also read your other posts. Good luck!<BR>Pilgrim

Pilgram,<P>I imagine you W reactions to your honesty are hard to take. Keep doing it. Trust is hard to rebuild. By getting honest she should eventualy start to trust. You will have established a new track record so to speak.<P>As for as marriage and infidelity goes, my experience is limited to what I've read the past 2 1/2 months. I have faith in Dr. H's principles and the experience of my predessors. I have to trust this process.<P>Addiction is another matter. I'm in a twelve step recovery group, and have 3 1/2 years clean. My experience in this area has helped me to understand adultry.<P>I tell the guys I sponsor, in NA. In order to stop useing drugs they have to stop doing drugs. It seems that applies here.<P>The twelve steps are my guide to life.<P>Do you know what they are?<P>They help me to stop using and keep me from using. They work when I work them.<P>They are:<P>1)I admitted I am powerless over my addiction and my life has become unmanagable<BR>2) I came to believe a power greater than my self can restore me to sanity<BR>3) I made a decision to turn my will and my lifeover to the care of God as I understood Him<BR>4) I made a searching and fearless moral inventory of myself<BR>5) I admitted to God, myself, and another human being the exact nature of my wrongs<BR>6) I was entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character<BR>7) I humbly asked Him to remove my shortcomings<BR>8) I made a list of all people I had harmed, and become willing to make amends to them all<BR>9)I made direct amends to such people whenever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others<BR>10) I continued to take personal inventory and when I was wrong promptly admitted it<BR>11) I sought through prayer and meditation to improve my concience contact with God as I understand Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for me and the power to carry it out<BR>12) Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps I tied to carry this message to addicts, and to practice these principle in all my affairs.<P>It sounds like a big order and I can't do it all at once. I didn't become addicted in one day so it's easy does it.<P>There is one thing more than anything else that will defeat me in my recovery and that is an attitude of indifference toward spiritual principles. Three of these that are indispencable are HONESTY;<BR> OPEN-MINDEDNESS; and WILLINGNESS. with these I am well on my way.<P>Sorry being so long winded thats how I got off drugs.<P>One day at a time.<BR>ADDICTION IS ADDICTION IS ADDICTION.<BR>It doesn't matter what or how much you used.<BR>It's all the same. What ever makes me feel good.<P>I don't know what else to tell you, I'm no genious. This is what has worked for me and millions of addicts and alcoholics for almost 70 years.<P>Bill<BR><P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>