What to do, guys? <P>I posted a few days ago in the "recovery" forum about my H locating an ex-girlfriend whom he wanted to make amends to. Turns out he also desires to maintain a friendship w/ her and is nurturing one slowly now. It will help to skim over "I resent resentment!" post to give some better back ground on this one.<P>I guess I have begun to get past my initial alarm and anger about her being in his life again, however benign it may appear right now. H has been kind and pretty patient in working and talking thru this w/me. (I was quite explosive for a few days.) He suffered bravely thru my accusations, suppositions and derogatory comments about this woman. <P>I got especially steamed when he informed me that he told her that I was angry and jealous about him contacting her. His words were, "the green-eyed monster came out." It is my strong feeling that THAT is none of her business, and it's something that she can probably have a little laugh to herself over. Am I over-reacting here in my anger that he told her this?? Maybe taking myself a little too seriously?<P>Now, here's the clincher - H wants to tell her that I was unfaithful to him. <P>He tells me that he still harbors much resesntment over my affairs which has been interfering in us having more pleasant interactions, and in his sexuality toward me, and in his everyday life away from me. I understand, I don't expect him to be over it and I'm thankful for his forgiveness. But it hurts when I see it in his eyes.<P>I want to note here that since we've been talking about this, H has already begun touching, smiling at, and cuddling with me much more <P>I have spent nearly every morning this week in front of the computer, crying and crying and typing and typing about my dispair over his resentment and this new ex-girlfriend thing. Not to mention the nights I spent in despair, thinking about the distance between us that still has not closed due everything I've done. Even tho it was over a year ago that I put it to an end.<P>He says that talking to her will help him unload. Cripes, they haven't spoken in over four, five years and already he's ready to pour his normally VERY closed heart out to this person! <P>I am wary becasue of this, and also because she and my H had an affair/relationship together at the end of his other marriage. From what I understand, H and his former wife had been separated for some time, and he strongly suspected her of having affairs throughout their marriage. My H persued her for the relationship, apparently, she did not initiate things w/him. <P>Now, I know that our marriage is far more solid than H's other one was, and that he does not feel negatively about me as he did his ex-wife. But that resentment he's feeling. And who knows what this woman might have to say to him regarding everything that's happened. <P>So, maybe this is actually a godsend and just like my H firmly believes, she'll help him work thru the remaining hurt and things will improve in our marriage and in his heart.<P>Or .... she will say things that make him think twice about his decision to forgive me, that in combination with the potenetial of sexual tensions coming back again between them could be just the mix to send our cherished, still-healing marriage for a tailspin.<P>It's all I can think of, day and night. I'm up till four AM, thinking, worrying - What's he gonna tell her next? I SHOULD be thinking about my baby coming, who's due any DAY now! I did already ask him NOT to share my infidelity to her, and so far he's respected my wishes. <P>My issue is, is it fair for me to ask this of him - to tell him what he can and cannot tell his friends? I'm afraid he may resent me even more for getting in the way of a relationship that is obviously of great importance to him. I'll feel like a big, spoiled brat if he just gives up trying to revive this friendship becasue of my insecurity. But I also don't want to end up hurt. (I had hollered so bad one night about it that he finally said nevermind, I won't even talk to her, but I saw the disappointment in his eyes. They are still talking via e-mail.)<P>I know I haven't been here in awhile to post and I haven't been helping anyone else with theirs, I have been so absorbed by this. But if someone could give me some feedback, I'd sure appreciate it. Thanks<P>Carrie<P>[This message has been edited by Khyra (edited July 28, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Khyra (edited July 28, 2000).]

I understand your fear, I cant say I blame you. Is there any way you can both be her friend? Can she come over for dinner one evening? If he's trying to right some kind of wrong to her then being a grancious host and enjoying an evening w/his wife and friend should be more than okay. It sounds like a fair compromise to me. I hope your H can see your point in all of this. Its not a very good way to get the marriage back on track after an A. Especially w/a baby coming any day - that alone is stressful and it should be a happy time. I really hope it works out for you. Magoskid

khyra,<P>I posted to you the other night. I don't have anything really useful to say except that you need to deal with his resentment as much as possible. Get him to talk to you some. I'll bet he is reluctant because of the pregnancy and that may be proper. You are about to give birth and you need to focus on that.<P>However, let warn you of something. One of the things that gets to men more than anything is to be shut out of the family as the W focusses solely on the the newborn. It is quite natural that the new born is the focus of everyones attention, but don't for get you do have an H.<P>Now I know that all of the women are going to jump on me for having said this. I mean how could an H be so shorted sighted as to not know what is the most important thing in your life. He knows or will know. What he will wonder is if it is the only thing in your life. This may be especially true, since it has been only a year since you left him for the other men. He will be touchy. See not just you. Include him in your life as much as possible and I don't mean as just a gofore.<P>As for the girl friend, well you are right to be worried, but if he insists your options are limited. You can make his life hell or you make life as pleasant as it can be with two people getting very little sleep. <P>Maybe you will be lucky, our daughter was a sleeper. She slept through the night when she came home from the hospital. But don't bet on it, our other two weren't bad but it was still weeks before they went the distance.<P>I am not trying to discourage you Carrie. I am just saying you can only do so much especially when the baby comes, but do include him in your life and thoughts. You won't know what I am talking about until that bundle of joy arrives. They are addictive like rascals. <P>God Bless,<P>JL

I just HAD to drag myself out of "lurk-dom" for this one!<P>Carrie, I'll try to be gentle - but IS YOUR HUSBAND *NUTS*????? And no, you are NOT nuts to worry about this.<P>IMHO, this has red flags poking out all over it. I'm not saying anything has happened, or that anything *neccessarily* will - but if this isn't a situation ripe for disaster, nothing is. <P>You're pregnant - classic time for an affair. Your marriage is already stressed by your affair - ditto. Your H is feeling vulnerable right now - maybe hurt, rejected, humiliated that it happened (AGAIN! yet!!) - ditto. He's rebuilding an emotionally intimate relationship w/ an old girlfriend - married people just *don't do* that - unless they're VERY vulnerable to an affair - which they'll deny to the hilt and rationalize eleven ways from Sunday.<P>I don't know what's going on w/ your H, but the man is playing with fire. And he's also using YOUR guilt, and therefore your reluctance to rock the boat, as a tool. (I don't think he's neccesarily aware of that, or doing it "on purpose", but that's the dynamic I see.)<P>Remember POJA? Clearly you are troubled by this, and you have every right to be. What the heck is he thinking???? That this relationship of his, in a marriage already rocked by an affair, AND with a new baby due any day, is going to HELP the marriage?! <P>Right now, you two ought to be doing *everything in your power* to nurture each other, earn the trust of each other, and not frighten each other. There is something *very* wrong with your H's desire to pursue this relationship and spill your intimate marital secrets with this woman. Who then "poor-baby"s him and tells him what a swell, wonderful, sensitive, amazing guy he is... and why did she ever let him get away...<P>I see no upside here, and a whole lot of potential for a real mess. He's totally deluding himself if he thinks this is a good thing. The very fact that it has you in such a state is eveidence enough that it's NOT a good thing! POJA! POJA! And he's rationalizing like crazy.<P>So, can you persuade him of this? Well, not if you blow his socks off with the energy and terms I've used here ! I've spoken bluntly with *you* because you don't seem to trust your instincts on this. Trust 'em. But obviously you'll have to speak more tactfully to your H. than I've spoken to you here.<P>Carrie, you're *not* off-base to be concerned here. There are just too many reasons that this is a bad idea, and indeed is creating a situation ripe for an affair. Having a new baby is no picnic for a marriage - takes strength and committment to weather the changes.<P>Hope I haven't completely freaked you out here! I just think you need to put on your thinking cap, and find a way to convince your H that he's setting off on a slippery slope.<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>

Alright !! Suse is back <P>Suse,<P>You said it and you said it well. Khyra listen to this woman. She knows her stuff. I couldn't quite come up with what I wanted to say to you. Kind of got to part of it about pay attention to H once child is born. But Suse got it right.<P>Heck, I am a blunt kind of guy I would be inclinded to show him her posting. But she is probably right, it may need some sugar coating. But... You know us guys. <P>Sometimes we need the shotgun blast right between the eyes. Obviously, this message must be delivered in a cool, compasionate manner, sort of the velvet covered hammer I suppose.<P>Nevertheless, pay attention to Suse.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Awwwwww, shucks, JL! (<scuffs foot> )(BTW, I just read your posts to Robino - might I return the compliment - you are *so good* at giving insight from a man's point of view! You really did a great job there)<P>Yah, Carrie, I really wanted to give you support toward the courage of your convictions - it's pretty clear you're very uncomfortable with this - I've had situations like that too, where *something* just bothered the heck out of me, but I didn't want to be "unreasonable" - but guess what, one of my Lessons Of Life is to *listen to those inner voices* - they're really smart little buggers. And this old-girlfriend thing really stinks to high heaven.<P>(And now , I'll turn you back over to JL for wise help on how to approach your H on this!)<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>

Dear Friend,<BR>I just came into this site after the recovery one (always click in there first - whenever I am around). I replied to you there but have to reply to this one right away.<P>Timing ... Timing ... Timing ...<BR>I hate to say it, but the time of this whole rekindled friendship / H wanting to 'share' and confide in someone else/ his resentment / lack of complete 'desire' / adding the little addition to your family / etc... something has got to give.<P>I don't know how comfortable I'd feel if my H wanted to tell an ex-girlfriend EVERYTHING personal that has been happening in our relationship for the sake of them trying to help him out. If this woman was a dear friend of yours ... I'd understand. But this woman is a third party - no matter how you look at it. <P>Yes, he does need to 'get things out' but I am not sure if this woman is the person who he should do that with. Even if you have all the trust in the world, I'd still feel uncomfortable. Number one reason why he should seek someone else to confide in is because the relationship upsets you. I don't think you are worried that he will have an affair, I think you just don't want personal things discussed when he can come to you with everything. Why is he needing this from another woman and not his wife? All women want to feel like they can take care of their own husbands. These all should be reasons enough for him to not pursue this any further. <P>Yes, you had affairs and betrayed him. Yes, he forgave you but is not 'over it'. I live that ever day of my life too. But if your H knows how you feel, why would he not try and understand why? Sorry if I am jumping to conclusions here ... just a little defensive on your part Carrie. I can see where your H is coming from (or trying to go) because I try and put myself in my H's shoes as well to try and understand this flip side of the whole infidelity thing.<P>I cannot label or justify my EA but one thing for sure is that I am glad that we never 'griped' about our spouses. We never confided in each other what was obviously missing in our marriages. To this day, I have no idea what I offered my OM that his wife didn't provide. She is a very caring person ... and I was just a voice on the phone (we live very far apart). I'm not saying that my affair was the 'correct' or 'justified' one because my OM and I didn't discuss our relationship with our spouses ... just making a statement (and question why your H wants to discuss you with another woman). <P>A husband and wife should be number one to each other. Live for each other. If one person in that union is doing something that upsets the other, wouldn't they try everything in their power to correct that? It is not as if you are hiding your feelings and blaming him afterward. Your thoughts are right out there on the table. And it sounds like your heart is out there too.<P>I may be not one to talk here but I wanted to write what I thought. Maybe so I'd listen to myself once in a while. Anyway, take care of you okay.<BR>Brynn <BR>

Thanks once again, guys, for your time and insight. I just let it all hang out here, y'know? <P>Magoskid:<BR>Yeah, I do intend to meet her, without a doubt. Just not till I'm feeling better about how I look, and feeling up to it. As far as friendship goes, who knows?? She and I may hit it off well once I get over the initial icky sensations I'm bound to experience. We do have some things in common, I suppose .... er let me re-phrase that ...<P>JL:<P>Once again, you have come thru. I didn't mean to sound as if your posts didn't move me - they did very much so. I still have been obsessing about it and needed to get some more caca out. I will indeed make a conscious effort to pay attention to my H and hopefully to my appearance as best as I can after our Baby comes. And you said it, why make life a living hell for either of us, it accomplishes nothing. I keep hoping every little ache or pain is "IT" ...<P>Suse:<BR>I do agree that H is vulnerable for all the reasons you listed and more, I don't think he sees it that way. I see him as a very strong man who has high moral standards and integrity. I would not have married him otherwise. He even said that he could not let anything 'happen' because he would lose any shred of integrity he has left. Well I think he's got A LOT more than shreds of integrity. I just still WORRYYYY!<BR>I am hesitant to put my foot down, I'm not sure I am in touch yet with all the reasons why, I guess I'm afraid of smothering him or being one of those terrible controlling wives (like my mom, lord love her). Perhaps if he sees others' reasoning in this matter, he may spot a common thread that has been nagging at him. And BTW, I know he will come here and read all the posts - he lurks as you do, Suse. He never sugar coats things himself, and he's not easily 'hurt' so don't hesitate to say exactly what you have to say for his sake. (I usually don't) <P>Yep, bells, whistles, and alarms. He thinks I'm just a jealous bug though. (Which I admit to being...) And it's not that you can't trust yourself, but you can't trust a situation. I think those of us who know him here know what a good person he is. But so are a lot of others, myself included, who have experienced adultery in some form or another. <P>Brynn:<BR>There you are again. When you said 'something has got to give' I just felt like crying. That's what I fear. And I don't know what it would be. I guess H is getting pissed because I'm not giving him the credit he deserves. And becasue I'm so spastic over this. I think he's sick to high heaven of hearing about it from me.<BR>I can accept him needing to speak to another person besides me about his feelings on the affair. With me he DOES have to candy coat things. He would not have to do that with her. Like I said, due to past history, it should not be her. Or any other of his ex's. It can BE a woman - an ugly one or a gay one or an old one will do. <P>Perhaps if he sees I'm not the only one who sees potential issues here, he will think more about it. I worry he will agree to not say anything but that it will come up anyway. Yeesh, can I STOP thinking about this crap for five freakin' minutes??? I NEED to go into labor!<P>To me the likelihood of an EA is high here, not because some statistics in some book say it or for other stereotypical reasons, but for what I've already seen and what lies in my heart. He may get mad at me for saying this, but I believe in honesty now that I see what cloaking things did to our marriage. <P>*SIGH I'm going to go to bed soon here. Thanks again for all your love and support. <P> <BR>

Hi Hon -<BR>I hope you had a good sleep... Today is another day (and maybe this is the day Andrew will come). But I hope he holds off a few more days cuz August is the best month to be born in (you agree right unseen2?)<P>I've thought about you since I last posted and a few things stuck in my mind. You have fears ... and your H knows all about these right? He's been on that end of things before right? I say that's where you should focus. Find words/actions to assure each other which will help to eliminate any fear (present or future). I think people in marriages without infidelity have fears as well. <P>I don't know your H but with what you have said (and reading past posts of his) I don't think he would participate in an affair - with this women or any other. You both have seen first hand what infidelity does to a marriage and nobody wants to go thru all that again. Finding out, forgiving, recovering, rebuilding, and learning to trust again takes so much time and effort. I'm sure neither of you would like to back track to those stages. And deciding to rebuild your marriage took both of you - remember that. He chose you (in fact, for the second time). Put all your thoughts, fears, and insecurities out on the table so you guys can work on them together.<P>I know this is hard but try and give your H the bennefit of the doubt. If he needs someone to talk to about things (other than you) then try and participate in that also. Support him and give him your trust. If he knows that he has that ... he will respect it (and you for having it).<P>Take this time in your marriage to give extra attention to each other.<BR>Take Care of you,<BR>Brynn <P>

Hi, Khyra,<P>Hope you got a good nights' sleep!<P>One more thought... there are an awful lot of us here (myself & DMac among them) who considered ourselves of impeccable moral character, loaded w/ integrity, and definitely not susceptible to an affair... but pride has a way of going before a fall! <P>Your H must understand that his character and integrity are not being maligned, but that given the right set of circumstances, almost anyone is vulnerable. Nobody *sets out* to have an affair... most of us let it develop through ignorance and naivity (& yes, pride that says "I am not susceptible to that.").<P>And I also have to repeat, that aside from any issue of intent or vulnerability, I'm still troubled by your H's persistence with this relationship in the face of your obvious discomfort with it... POJA?...<P>You may feel differently a few months down the road when your family life begins to settle down again (those dreaded hormones & lack of sleep DO wreak havoc), but right now, this is *not* the time to force this, IMHO! Might you reach an agreement to "table" this for now?<P>Anyway, hope some of those pains turn out to be "It" soon! Keep us posted - we'll be thinking about you!

Thanks again, Brynn and Suse for your wonderful feedback. It's nice to know someone is thinking good thoughts about me. <P>As the days go by, my acceptance of the situation grows. I feel I owe it to Unseen2 to give him the benefit of the doubt here. <P>I admit to having a problem with excessive jealousy. There are two reasons I am aware of that foster this in me. First, when I was a very little girl, my mom was engaged for years to a man who was more of a father to me than anyone else has ever been. I can even remember having a sort of crush on him (Oedipal complex, I suppose). (My H reminds me a lot of him at times) One day we were out in the car, I reached between the seats and pulled out a stack of Poloriods taken of my "Daddly" and some woman who was NOT my mom. My mom grabbed them out of my hand and totally flew off the handle. She too, never had a great grip on her emotionl control when it came to her own jealousy. I felt betrayed, like he'd cheated on us both, even at that young age! (So never think that kids aren't perceptive - they are just like small adults without the life experience to properly process all of life's events.)<P>Secondly, I have been struggling for years to improve/control my self-esteem which fluctuates mercilessly. If I felt more self-assured and just plain better about me, number one, I doubt sincerely that my affairs ever would have taken place; and number two, I could take situations like this one in stride and not wig out. <P>I've driven my H crazy over the years with my irrational mindset over him and nearly any other female of breeding age around him. (Ironic, huh?) That's the biggest reason why I spilled my guts here - because knowing this, I don't really trust myself to make the right decision about how to cope. <P>I've heard a few different takes on this, all of them wise and reasonable. I have determined thru much careful thought that it is not my duty or right to restrict my H's conversations with his friends or anyone else. I do believe in POJA, but a marriage license does not equal ownership papers. Also, if an affair were to occur, it would probably occur in spite of WHAT they were discussing. <P>Now, if I come back here weeping and wailing, writing three-page posts about how terribly this turned out, I'll know I have more to blame than their conversations on how I did my H wrong. I'm starting to think I'm silly for assuming that I can control people's thoughts and feelings by stepping in with a bunch of rules and regulations.<P>Plus, of course ther is an issue of my pride being bruised in the face of someone like her. I have asked him not to tell other close frineds of his, and he respcted my wishes. As time went on, I got to be close with his friends and ended up telling some myself! I just had to establish with them that I am separate from my affairs - I was afraid they would judge me soley based on this. I'm glad I did get to know them first, perhaps this is the best way to approach this situation as well. <P>One last thing: I DO live with the fear in the back of my mind that H may one day sit me down and say, Carrie, I have something to tell you.... But until that imaginary day comes (which at this point I don't see happening) I will give my husband a sliver of the trust he has given me over the years and thru my affairs. <P>I am grateful for your guidance here. All of your words still echo in my head. I think it's a big step for me to take to begin trusting MYSELF again, too.<P>Carrie <p>[This message has been edited by Khyra (edited July 29, 2000).]

Hi, again! (We've GOT to stop meeting like this! )(bad MB joke, I guess! )<P>You've really given this a lot of thought & analysis. It helps to know what your background is & "where you're coming from". So, I can't help but agree w/ your decision. <P>I do hope H understands that you're consciously taking a leap of faith here that is intrinsically hard for you. And that he appreciates your effort to do so. He sounds like a really good guy... still perhaps a little naive (in the sense that us ex-betrayers have had to eat some humble pie about how stupidly we could behave!). That's why I think it's good for him to be aware that you have *chosen* to trust him in a potentially dangerous situation, and that it was hard for you to do, but you feel it's the *right* thing to do. <P>I gotta admit, I'm still a little concerned with the timing of this quest of his, tho! From 2 standpoints: his vulnerability due to affair-recovery *and* pregnancy/new baby stuff; and his insistence in the face of your discomfort. <P>As JL has said many times in many ways, a new baby is wonderful but EXHAUSTING, physically & emotionally (hormones, disrupted sleep); the mother's desire to spend every second with the baby is almost overwhelming, and it's nice to be able to indulge in that intense bonding for a few months (in fact, almost impossible not to) - but a lot of guys wind up feeling pretty left out & forlorn. Forget a sex life ! Ergo, this is *not* a great time to be picking up with an old flame, and not something you should have to be worrying about while you & he are learning to fit a new baby into your marriage! So just be careful, and *keep talking*. <P>I'm just concerned that neither of you might be aware of how tough a baby can be on even a strong relationship - the relationship definitely gets a bit "back-burnered" for awhile... it's hard, and it pays to remember that it's TEMPORARY (make that your mantra!).<P>Anyway - hope all goes well, decision-wise, talk-wise, AND baby-wise! Let us know when the stork has come!

Khyra,<P>Hi, It's me. We just met over some emails a few days ago. My wife and I are in the same situation you and your H were in last year.<P>I have read your latest post. I understand where the jealousy plays a part in this situation with the ex girlfriend.<P>However, I don't think it is being done to punish you. Perhaps there is a true friendship there, even if they haven't spoken in five years.<P>Your husband proved his loyalty and dedication to you through last year's mess. In my opinion, I doubt that this will infringe on your rebuilt relationship. I am also guessing that he is more excited about the baby than he is letting on.<P>Keep your chin up, I'm sure I will talk to you again soon.<P>Travis