Weird I know, but I got this sense he was just obsessing about it all the time. It drove me nuts!!<P>I feel like a weight has been lifted. But last night I was not the one who started on D..he did. and we were arguing about me moving and I was worried he could do something so I thought I'd better file also.<P>Lawyer is off till monday. <P>But, tonight he came over to see kids. I started talking. I figure if it is really over I need to talk. I never really understood all this non talking and him saying we never talked, when that is just nonsense. We talked all the time about everything....except what was happening with his friendhip at work!!!!!!!! (secrets)<P>I'm going to bet about 2 years of this friendship getting more and more intense!! then the trip and bammo!!!<BR>Anyway, I think this is the most normal he has spoken to me. Tonight.. the first REAL conversation since before the trip.<P>We discussed his things and what he wants from the house. (I am putting the house on the market soon)<P>I told him I loved him. That I didn't want this, do not want this. When he kept saying sorry about what is happening I said that people do things out of ignorance, not on purpose (mostly).... I said the same was true of me, that if I was doing anything to make our relationship not what he wanted it to be, it was out of ignorance, simply because I had not been told there was a problem.<P>I asked him if he could tell me exactly what he felt I had done or not done. He said he couldn't talk about it now...<P>I told him again I loved him, I wanted him to be happy. I wanted it to be with me.<P>I asked aobut OP and her kids...woould they live together, would he take care of her kids. He said he didn't know...(which is maybe to yes in my H's vocab)<P>He told me he didn't know how this happened but it did. I told him that when you are with someone for so many hours doing things that give you pleasure (for them its work) that you will fall in love eventually. and if you fall in love with someone you will fall out of love with your spouse.<P>I asked him to understand my occasional histrionics (last eve.) that while he had a companion, a lover, a friend to share with...I thought I had one...him for the 13 years of being together...and very suddenly I was shut out. I told him I ache because of those feelings.<P>We even hugged. I know he sees this as acceptance..which it isn't but it is. What else can I do.<P>He wants to talk some more. I said fine. We discussed finances. We'll work on that together. I told him the kids know this is not what I want.<P>But you know...he just looks so content. I really think he just truly likes the no responsibility... doing what he wants..Having a companion, lover, coworker all rolled into one to spend the day with.<P>Definately MLC. People do change their lives in MLC.... he seems to want to do that and she just fits the bill. <P>If his kids, his mom, his entire family, his colleages, his friends disapproval does not even in the slightest gnaw at him.... what could???? me???? Well, I'll try I guess.<P>I think the finally having sex made him finally emerge alittle from the weirdness. It was like he was high on the anticipation. I don't know how long it has been going on.<P>Ug.. The kids already know about divorse. Yes I guess I did get him off the hook.. I tend to do that don't I. Maybe that's his relief. He didn't need to do it. This was done with the counselor present. <P>I'll go ahead slowly, but remember...we haven't once talked about doing anything about our relationship. He has been unable until tonight to actually say anything coherent and not tinged in meanness!!!<P>I asked him if he was aware of many of the mean things he said and did and he said no!!<P>So is he out of the fog and just ready for a new wife???? seems so huh????<P>Thanks for all of your replies on previous post...<P>Why do I react? I guess when you live with a person who doesn't budge...doesn't give a clear answer (i guess...idont know) doesn't make up his mind, changes his mind etc. you begin to react!!! otherwise you'll stay nowhere.. Well I got somewhere didn't I???<P>I;ll move forward..step by step...but gently.....

If I only remember one thing that Dr H sez, it's this: Relationships that are conceived out of thoughtlessness usually don't last.<P>Stand by and see what happens. Stand far away, though, and don't let yourself get hurt any worse than you are already.<P>I am sorry for you, this sucks, and I don't know how to really put it in words how terrible it is to destroy a family just for. . .what? Romance. I don't know what it is. But I am sure you know very well.<P>Like I said, stand by, and stay strong. Chin up. Pray. Pray for your kids. Pray for him. Think happy.

TT...<BR> I am so sorry it has come to this. But, maybe it is easier to deal with, in a way. And, in the end, I doubt it will last, where the "dream state" he was in might have lasted forever.<P>Sounds like you did well when all this came out...<P>Hang in there--<P>Kathi<BR>

TT...<BR>I'm also so sorry this is burdening you. None of us deserve to be treated this way.<P>It seems your H is in a fog for now. Would love to be a fly on the wall when the reality of what he is doing finally settles in and OW is no longer capable of creating those fantasies that are so alluring to him now.<P>When the bills start coming in and the kids are visiting and he looks at her at 7:am and sees her pick her teeth or hears her fart it will be a sweet, sweet day ! Hallelujah!!!.<P>Stay strong, keep your chin up, every dog has his day! You did good with your conversing with him, just don't crumble and let him see you beg. That begging stuff drove my H over the edge, he would leave immediately if I started that. I couldn't bear to watch him leave our house knowing he was going to HER. But, I had to.<P>Stay strong and assured that "what go around, comes around".<P>Sincerely, Cathy

Hey TT,<P>So you finally got him to talk, without his meaness and anger. You did so good, Hon.<P>I'm so sorry, but you know what. Now he has to start living in reality. It had to happen ... you needed to do something to help him look at things for "REAL".<P>So it starts, now he'll settle down and start thinking instead of fantisizing all the time, it won't be all at once but a chunk at a time. He'll start thinking to himself "who" am I now, then "where" am I headed? And then not too long after "why" am I doing this.<P>Time is KEY.<P>You two have opened a line of communication, TT, finally. You were calm and Plan A'd him into talking. You're not percieved as the enemy anymore to him. Each talk will make him "see" you. You know what I mean?<P>I truly see this as a step in the right direction. You want to be his friend first. <P>Just keep taking care of yourself and the kids, make yourselves as happy as you can. And leave the door ajar for your H to enter when he will need you, because I believe he will.<P>Prayers,<BR>Jo

Cat:<BR>When the bills start coming in and the kids are visiting and he looks at her at 7:am and<BR>sees her pick her teeth or hears her fart it will be a sweet, sweet day ! Hallelujah!!!.<P>Thanks for posting that! It made my day! <P>I really wonder if in the "heat" of an affair, the OP really do that?? Geeze, everybody might as well stay home. I asked my H if the OW ever did that. He said no. I bet she was glad when the affair finally ended.

Thanks for the replies, and yes Cat that will be a wake up call...however...<P>both H and Op are still the victims in this romantic affair... Everyone is aganist them.<P>They are both in their own antimaterialistic apts. with their spouses taking care of everything else. They are consoling each other with how unfair they have been to have faked it with their spouses now that they realize what true love is.<P>They are consoling each other with the "it's not them it is us". My H is in tears with the I'm sorry and you're a "good" person, this should never happen to you.<P>It hasn't even sunk in yet how much he has lied to me, his kids, his family, colleagues.<P>When I backed away, sort of giving him an ultimatum he just blamed it on me..."she won't talk to me" (despite the fact that he was not talking to me because I was holding him back)<P>He figures he's been separated and not getting "totally" intimate for the past 5 months, that now this is just the next logical step...sex with OP, since I wouldn't talk to him.<P>He is really sure now that they had sex!!!<P>OUr three kids will be "fine". (My 11 year old has not slept by herself since he left)<P>My 5 year old cries to him all the time that he needs to move back in. He is just cold, changes the subject. He is thinking I'm not leaving them I'm leaving her.<P>And I've seen that posted as well. But the S does leave the kids. When they are so focused on the intensity of the relationship they do not care about the kids in the same way. My H ran from a soccer game so my son would not see him... My son ran to me and asked who was that guy and when he found out it was his dad, he cried in front of the bleachers. His dad, up until the affair was devoted to he and his sisters!!!<P>I also think when you say I love you every day to your spouse and never mention an issue, and even now cannot come up with one you can't care enough about either kids or spouse or you would have done something, anything. <P>He even told me he was being selfish. If you would have told me Nov 3, 1999 that my H would lie as much as he did, and become this thoughtless and callous, I would have told you you were nuts.<P>

Hi Tootrusting -<P>I know that I am probably just a big pain in the a--, but I want the best for you......<P>Question - reread what you just wrote on this thread.....ask yourself if this mindset of his is one that allows for such a serious step as divorce? How is a decision possible when not in one's right mind?<P>Think of everything....not just your own pain and confusion, but of ALL the repercussions involved for you, H, the kids, the families, etc.......<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

OK Sheba, I will.... help me alittle then. I guess I was just trying to believe he could do it.... resist... Yet I needed to know... Then I blew up. Now the kids know, and his family knows. <P>I can see his depression lessening. He sees himself a good guy who was just in the wrong marraige and now found the "right one" He and she are crying to each other about how they have hurt us so much.. But they've changed... They want so little.. just each other (gag). Yes I know it is the addiction.<P>IT still doesn't help my kids. Every time my kids mention daddy, and they do about 1000 times a day. "remember April fools day", remember when daddy sang that song", we did ....when daddy still lived here", "it was fun when daddy lived here"<P>But you know Sheba, he has no memory of any of that. He still refuses to look at any pictures of he and the kids prior to this.<P>Now it has been since November for the trip., since Feb since he moved out and began "exploring" the relationship with her (while working together every day and obsessing about her ), now I don't know how long since Pa, but I'm guessing it happened shortly after me detaching.... or when i went away on vacation, because he changed back into the cold, "kids are fine", man that he was when he first came home.<P>So now what??? OK.. I won't file. Ill make him do it... which might prolong it a bit.<P>But I am going to move. I do need more support with these kids. And they want a father...not a visiting dad who doesn't get it!!! Plus, every time they say anything, my heart gets another knife in it. <P>Remember, when he shut me out of his life, he pretty much shut me and the kids out of our life since most of our social life revolved around work related friends and events. This is a small town and I am trying to make my own life, but every single person in this town knew us and know what is going on!!!! If he wanted to reconcile, moving would not be an issue for him.<P>He just doesn't have a clue how he would begin... and he certainly won't let me tell him.