Okay. here we are. only 4 months into recovery. We went through a "honeymoon" period of time where it seemed like we were going to make it, all was going to be okay.<P>I realize taht 4 months is not a very long time after everything you have ever known and loved has been ripped from the very bottom pits of your heart.<P>But....<BR>I want to know.. how come after all of this time.. I wonder about OM, how he is doing, remembering things i should not remember.. adding the fantasy back to my life?<P>I think it could be the fact that my "love bank" is being drained more than filled. I do not know.<P>I have been sitting here for days wondering.. what is the point? I hate the position i hvae put myself and my family, yet i am hopeless to change it.. or I feel that way. These are the things i told my husband in hopes it would hlep him understand why I have been soooo sad , why i have been so "disconnected". I feel as if i am going through withdrawal again.. and I have not had any contact with OM at all.<P>I told him these things. have you all felt this way?<P>1. my mind does not revolve around january events. Not everything i do is significant to OM and I and the affair.<P>(if i am in a really good mood or a bad mood then i must hve had contact. If i do not want to make love.. i must have had contact)<P>2. Everytime you think OM is in the middle of things i withdraw from you and get angry with you.<P>3. I am tired of NEVER getting an "enthusiastic" agreement everytime i want to go or do something.<P>4. i cannot stand getting the 3rd degree from you anytime i step out of your sight.<P>5. I am soo tired of all the tension in the house.<P>6. I feel as a caged bird looking for any little opening to escape.<P>7. I feel very disconnected from everyone around me. I do not feel like the same person i was before the affair. Almost like the "innocense" is gone.. does that make sense? <P>I know i love my husband very much, but i also know that i move closer and closer to leaveing everyday. Not because I cannot stay to make it work but because his very actions are pushing me away and when i push him away he gets very hurt and pulls away.<P>I am serious about the situations above. If a trip should only take.. say 4 hours.. 2 hour drive up.. two hour drive back.. if i took 5 hours to make that trip.. i have gotten the third degree about just exactly WHY it took me so long. Gosh.. traffic, getting lost, pits stops.. all add up. It just gets to get insane. This isn't only one issolated incident it it something that happends daily. If the phone line is busy.. wants to know who called, why and how long and if I really didn't call OM. this crap gets old.<P>Apparently HIS world revolves around teh ever present thoughts of OM and I. Would leaving help resolve those feelings? The kids are hay wire at this point, the tension is so damned high around here it is insane.<P>I know that i created the mad man who now resides in my husbands body but there has to be someway to change things around here.<P>Disconnection. Do any of you still feel that way? I am feeling the "i love my husband.. but not In LOvE with him." I just hate that feeling because i was feeling like i was falling in love with him all over again. Now the feelings have changed? or were they just a reactoinary feeling to the whole affair situation?<P>any suggestions?<BR>thanks for listening.<P>mercy

Mercy,<P>Yes, you are right.<P>***HIS world revolves around the ever present thoughts of OM and I.***<P>Pretty much right on it Mercy.<P>Wish I could tell you how to stop him from obsessing. If I had that figured out I would have left these boards months ago. <P>It's part of the deal. It will take time, just like it takes time for you to withdraw from OM. Your job is to be patient, show your love to H in any way possible, and be understanding of his needs. I know you are not getting your needs met right now, but you've got to put H first at this point.<P>He's not getting over it very well, or the way you want him to. You know, he has his own time schedule to start feeling normal again, and so do you. Actually, you sound like you are not getting over it that well yourself. What has happened his probably the most painful event in your life and your H's.<P>I'm not saying any of this to hurt you, but you are now in a position that you can make or break this situation. Put your feelings on the back burner, go to your H and ask him what you can do to help him through this. Ask him what you can do to earn his trust again. Be accountable for ALL time spent away from him. These are the things you have to do to recover. Help him...he needs you and your love. <P>The innocence is gone, and will never come back again. You guys need to start a new chapter. <P>allison

az aliso,<P>nope not totally over it here. but i haven't had contact either.<P>I can only stand so much third degrees<BR> ys i can make it or break it.. but with 5 kids and NO needs being met...... it is a lonely world out there. I cannot give and give and give and not anything in return but negative looks, words.<P>i know it takes time for everyone. NO he is not even close to over it. he thinks i am a liar all the time. no matter what i say. <P>I guess i figre at this point.. what is the point?<P>sorry to be so neg..<BR>mercy<BR>

Hi Mercy,<P>You're probably not going to like what I have to say. I feel for you but I feel more for your H. Yes, I am a betrayed.<P>First I want to thank you for posting and looking for support. Plus it really helps us BS see the other side of the fence.<P>Your H has been thru hell and back, I know you have pain too but please try and see his side.<P>The reason for his very existence has been shattered, his heart and soul was taken thru a meat grinder, he even probably contemplated suicide at one point, and then there's the self esteem thing. He questioned every facit of his being, his ideas about himself were under extreme question and he probably never looked at himself in the mirror for fear he wouldn't be there. And I haven't even gotten into the libido subject.<P>You need to prove to him you're committed, you need to reassure him daily that you love him and only him. You need to tell him as many times as it takes that you made a mistake, you did, right?<P>Your taker is dominant right now and you're allowing yourself to pick apart valid behavior from your H so you can justify your return to the fantasy of the OM. <P>Have you filled out your EN questionare and gave it to your H? If so, then print it again and give it to him. Tell him this is what you need and you want HIM to fill those needs, no one else. Give him the chance he deserves.<P>It's going to take time for him to get there. First he has to get his balance back, to feel like himself again, but this is a commitment and he needs your understanding now more than ever. <P>If you could make your marriage with this man everything you ever wanted in a marriage, would you be satisfied and stay. I assume from your post your answer would be "Yes". Well then it's going to be work, hard daily work. It took you a long time to get to this place, Mercy, and it's going to take a long time to repair the damage done, on both sides.<P>If your H was posting I'd be telling him to also print his EN and give them to you. Maybe you can ask him to do so.<P>Mercy, I can' tell you what this feels like, I can't describe to you in writing all the hurt and pain that the BS is bombarded with. It's overwhelming and it's constant.<P>If you two are not in couseling, then I would also suggest you go. If you guys and afford it, try and schedule one with Jennifer or Steve from MB. They really are pretty good. <P>You two cannot thrash like this forever without more damage being done. It will end badly if you do. Get some help and follow the MB prinicpals TOGETHER! Talk and communicate, be honest and real. This is the person you're going to spend the rest of your life with, so isn't it important and worth it Mercy???<P>I hope I haven't hurt you or made you feel bad, I want to understand and help but I also feel you need to see what your H is going thru.<P>God Bless you and your marriage.<P>Jo

mercy, I'm sorry that you and your H are struggling through this. I pray that your H's heart softens. <P>I can't remember, did you and you H go to counseling or try the EN's questionaire??<P>and I can't remember if yours was an EA or PA..<P>I guess when you are down, it is nice to get away from it with those thoughts of OP.<P>I think it is a very narrow path you travel in recovery, and yes, it does take two very willing partners.<P>Maybe you can word some of you concerns to your H in THAT way. Instead of focusing on the past.. Focus on the future and what you can do to make it better.<P>I know that's what I would want to do if I ever had the chance.

mercy,<P>I was a betrayer as well, and felt somewhat the same as you are. I wanted to rush the recovery along, and also felt because none of my own needs were being met, that our marriage was not going to recover. <P>Patience, love and action I believe are the key. My H is now nothing like he was before, during and shortly after the affair (i.e. non-trusting, wanting to know my whereabouts, always thinking the worst in terms of what could be happening) but we've been through some tough times. He had a short lived affair because he had a hard time with it. I'm not excusing what he did, and he is a good man, but he had a very hard time dealing with what I had done and was very hurt by it. I'm sure your H will not take that direction, but I think you need to understand that he needs your reassurance and consistent patience with him, because he WILL slowly overcome what's happened, but showing him that your love for him is worth the effort will make it a recovery. And he needs to understand on the flip side that punishment doesn't equal recovery. It has to be both parties contributing to overcome something like this.<P>Have you two sat down and discussed this problem? Maybe if you ask him what he needs from you (Emotional needs questionnaire?) to show him (and vice versa) how you can improve your marriage and his distrust, that would help? I know for awhile (how long has it been since he's found out about your affair?) he's going to be naturally distrusting (this is an emotional protective mechanism, I do believe) until you both have come to a point where you've established a nurturing and trusting relationship. And that only happens with time, as far as what I've seen in my own marriage. <P>I'm sure the thoughts of the OM are just a by-product of the problems you're experiencing in your marriage. The OM = no commitment, no strife, no real relationship. A kind of escape from the real world, but not reality. I know of how many times I had thoughts of the OM when my H and I were going through rough times, then the reality of it started to show itself, and it was really only a diversion and didn't let me focus on what I could really do to help my situation. <BR>Maybe you can ask yourself what it is you've done to help him begin to trust you again. What you would want to have him do in this situation if the roles were reversed to show you that he loves and cares for you?<P>Mercy, I think you are on the right track here, but understand there are these little potholes along the way, and it doesn't mean the end of the marriage. I can completely understand every emotion you're going through. Take care.

Thank you to all who posted to me.<P>we spent the weekend talking and talking. No i do not feel much better but i am not so clueless any longer.<P>He says: "i do not feel like you love me as a wife should love a husband. I feel that you still hold onto OM. Even my best wasn't good enough for you , there fore, i feel that I am not good enough for you. I have lost so much in the last 6 months. I have lost all sight as to who i am and what the hell i am doing here. IF the kids hadn't been so tramatized, you wouldn't be here because i cannot hardly stand the pain. I do not look at you like i used to, I do not love you like i used to. The "love" is failing and I am not sure how to get it back."<P>This doesn't seem to be just a pothole, it seems to be the grand canyon.<P>I have come to this conclusion about myself.<BR>I have to be the utmost selfish B**** that ever walked the planet. I have absolutely no idea what marriage is, actually what a relationship is. I seem to think he isn't a person with feelings. LIke i can just walk all over him with no regard to him as a person. It seems I cannot shake the OM thing. The worst part of it is I KNOW BETTER. I KNOW the OM is not a good thing. I know he is not stable, heis unfaithful, he is a liar, ect ect.. but he also touched a place in me at a real bad time in my life. I WANT to get rid of all crap concerning OM. I WANT to love my husband as he needs to be loved. but I do not know how to strive for this. I do not know how to shake this crap. I hate it!!!<P>we cannot afford counseling right now and probably won't be able to for a long time. I think that at this point either counseling is what we need or this marriage won't make it. It wouldn't take much for some other woman to start meeting his emotinal needs seeing as 1. he doesn't want to let me close, 2. there isn't anytime in our day to meet emotional needs.<P>we talked of seperation last night. Perhaps it would give the time we may need to either heal or call it done. but due to all the tensin in the house.. something has to give.<P>mercy.

Mercy,<P> Sorry to hear things are not going to good. One of my concerns here is that it sounds like emotions are really running high and the two of you are reacting to each other instead of doing what you really want. Let me explain. You know last weekend after my wife talked to the OM I hit her with a choice of me or a divorce. I was upset and running on about 90% emotion. True, she choose me but I have now gone and made one healthy withdrawal from her bank. I was upset and was saying things I know I should say. I should have appoarched this contact with a little better understanding but I didn't. I didn't because of all the deep seated pain I have from the affair and D day for me was almost 1 year ago. <P> The two of you are very hurt right now. I think if you give it some honest thought you'll agree that it is not the OM you think about but the way he made you feel. I'm splitting hairs now but it is important to see him for what he really is. Mercy, what my wife has come to realize is that her time with the OM was spent in a fantasy world and it was the feelings she had when she was in that world that she liked. It really wasn't the OM. Of course you know the story of her talking to him and telling him she missed him... I have seen this addiction in her and I can see it a little in you. Don't let the time when your feeling down get the better of you. If you dwell on these feelings they will only pull you down deeper and deeper into depression.<P> Another topic that came to mind as I read your posts is then you husband is already in this pit of depression. He is currently in a state that the whole world hates him and he is worth anything. His anger is coming from his depression. I been there and I've done it a lot this year. It is so important that the two of you pick yourselves up and encourage each other to go on. Once you are both up and running the next step is to be open and honest with each other and help each other over their periods od depression. Hopefully the two will not be down at the same time. We have talked online and off and I understand your husband has been one royal pain in your A__. Try and shake it off comfort him, pick him up and once he is up you do need to let him know about the damage he is doing. The two of you need to stop hurting each other. You both need to focus on the future and work towards it. You will only get there as a team and there is no room on this team for individual effort. You need to work together pushing and pulling each other along. You both need to develop somewhat of a shell right now and not let the other's pain bring you down. Mercy, if you let your husband's thoughts, feelings and words get to you who is going to pick him up. <P> I know I keep saying Mercy.... Mercy..... Mercy..... but right now you're the other one I can talk to. Once your husband has gotten his feet back under him you'll start to see who he really is but right now the other thing in your husband's body is pain and depression a very ugly combination.<P>Hang in there, I'll be praying for you.<BR>Joe

Mercy,<BR>My husband said to me that when I had my affair he felt something had been stolen from him. When he had his affair, he felt the OW stole something from me. And, I agree with him on both parts. Innocence, trust, both stolen.<P>Now think about theft in the real world. What do you do if something is lost or stolen? You go on without it. You might miss it, you might even be able to replace some things. But life goes on, you make new memories, you feel new emotions. <P>If you spend all your time thinking about what was and what was stolen or lost...you don't grow, you don't flourish. <P>The affair is "what was". Nothing about it can be changed. It is past.<P>Time, resolve, patience, forgiveness is your present, if you want your marriage.<P>I think your husband gave you a wonderful gift of telling you his feelings. He's communicating--if he wanted to shut you out, he wouldn't have told you that, even though it was painful for him to say, painful for you to hear.<P>It can be a pothole, it can be the Grand Canyon, it can be the first step from the valley to the mountain of future happiness--it depends on your perspective.<P>I'm the last one to say it is easy. But take it step by step, day by day. And don't idealize or contact the OM.<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Let love be genuine...hold fast to what is good; love one another." Rom 12:9-10

Dear Mercy,<P>I was sad to see the slight attack on you in the first few posts but was very happy to see Tootrusing, Conner, and Getting_Better come to your rescue..*S* <P>I too was the betrayer, and I understand the addiction to those good feelings that one has during an affair. I can really see where you would be longing for those feelings during this stressful time you are going through now with your H.<P>Tootrusting hit it on the nose when she said: <BR>I think it is a very narrow path you travel in recovery, and yes, it does take two very willing partners.<P>You have decided to leave the OM behind and work on your marriage...does he not realize you are choosing to do this? If he could just realize what you are going through he might be more sympathetic. Did he read Surviving An Affair? <P>Does he understand that your needs not being met by HIM was the first step in this whole mess you are in now? (not condoning an affair, just think he needs to take SOME responsibility for fixing the relationship that was not as good as it needed to be in the first place).<P>I dearly love my husband now. We have been back together 5 months after a 10 month seperation, and he was very knowledgable of the reasons for the A. He didn't think of it as the problem but the symptom of the problem (lack of meeting very important emotional needs).<P>So, that brings me back to the book, Surviving An Affair. I think It is a must for your H to read. He definately needs to change his attitude to make this work more smoothly and it will take a lot longer with out knowledge.<P>I just wanted you too know that I understand and know how much courage you have for putting yourself full force into your marriage after all that has happened.<P>Stay strong and pray often<BR>God bless<BR>Tex

Mercy,<P>My name is forest and i am a betrayer...<P>If you were the most 'selfish b*****' on the planet, then you'd be with OM and doing exactly what you want, what you feel, instead of trying to do what's right, rebuild your marriage. My adultery was selfish, pure and simple. I saw the whole deal as MY chance at happiness, ME finally getting to do what I want, blah blah blah... In the end, reality steps back in, and the person i was (and still am) is so entwined with my wife, no matter how idiotic i act, she's always there. I finally realized this past weekend that everything good that 'A' saw in me was a direct result of spending my life with my wife. The way i see things, my morality, my sense of responsibility (sounds like a bad joke, i know), are all from her. <P>When i first came back, and everything was out in the open, the shock, the trauma was so bad, she moved to her parents with the kids. My son wanted no part of me for better than 3 months. My daughter just wanted daddy back. And my wife was... i still don't understand how she handled it the way she did, except for her faith in Christ. The guilt of 'kicking' my wife and kids out of their own home drove me nuts. I finally got them to move back in, as long as i moved out. We were separated, all in all, for about 3 months. I don't know how old your kids are, but mine didn't handle it 'well'. Which is a stupid thing to say, but they basically freaked out every night. Which my wife got to deal with. And i broke every rule of separation there was. I remained in contact with 'A', i lied all the time, etc, etc,. But my wife did get stronger, and realized that if she didn't let me go, i was never coming back. And i did start to see her, as you said about your husband, as a person with feelings that i was trampling all over. I saw her for the first time in a long time, as a girl, a woman, a very important somebody i was just destroying for basically my own selfishness.<P>Things are far from going swimmingly yet, she knows my tears most of the time aren't in remorse over what i've done to her, but the fact that 'A' is on my mind. It's been 3 months with absolutely no contact. And like most of the people on this board have told me, it's getting better. Not much, but slightly better.<P>I really don't know how the two of you are managing in the same house. I can only pray your husband can find the same strength in Christ my wife found. It's scary, she said exactly the same thing to me your husband said to you. And i have little or no meaningful answers for her.<P>I will be praying for you,<BR>forest

mercy-<P>One more thing, which you've probably heard already, try your church, or any local church. My wife and i had gone to counseling with a paid counselor, and then ended up at our church with one of the associate pastors, who won't take a dime off of us. This pastor at our church has done more for us than the counselor we paid. <P>And trying to keep the whole thing a secret, [which terrified me about going to anybody for counseling] even to 'protect' your husband or your kids, is a crock. Your kids know, your husband knows, anyone else who knows is either going to try and love you to death (if they care) or they won't care. Brave words i really didn't believe in at the time, but it's true. It also puts the adultery into a very clear perspective, at least it did for me. The best counseling i think i received was a good friend of mine who simply said, "Uh, hey, you're married with two kids, remember?"<P>forest

OMG! No, no, no Mercy! I'm so sorry you felt this way after reading posts. Had no intention for you to feel bad about yourself, Lord knows you feel bad enough already.<P>You are not the most selfish b*** that ever walked the planet, you are human, just like your H. You're a loving, caring person who made a mistake. Your H and you both are responsible for the marriage problems, remember ... you are 100% responsible for 50% of your marriage and your H the same.<P>You and H take turns being the taker and the giver. Right now you're allowing your taker to be dominant and "most importantly right now" you need to be the giver. H needs you. You've got it in you, you want this marriage and you love your H. He loves you too. All this hurt and pain on both of you has taken it's toll and you're both wearing suits of armor for protection, someone needs to disrobe the armor and expose themselves to the chance they'll be hurt. A chnace to get close again.<P>Say Mercy, most of us on this board have no idea how to be married. That's why we're here. To learn. It's extrememly hard to go thru this but becuz you are the one who's come to the board, I feel you have the will and strength to make the efforts needed to make this work. You are resourceful enough to find help here and post your feelings to get support, so now you have tools and knowledge your H doesn't, so if you can find it in your heart, forgive your H for not meeting your needs and give him a chance.<P>I know you can do this. Your recovery and re-surfacing fantasy of OM is temporary and an escape from the fact you and your H are falling back into the old habits. Don't live the same old marraige, Hon. Make a new one, educate your H on the MB principals. Give him the book and ask him to PLEASE read it.<P>Don't give up, don't slide back into fantasy land where OM takes over your thoughts and you end up loosing everything important to you.<P>I'll say many prayers for you Mercy. I know this is hard and it hurts, but you can do it.<P>Please be well and God Bless.<BR>Jo<p>[This message has been edited by Resilient (edited August 15, 2000).]

Some more thoughts to try and help you, Mercy.<P>I know going to counseling is cost prohibited right now, but could there be a chance your Church would offer free counseling? And if you don't have or go to church, perhaps a coummunity center or yours or H's work may offer family counseling at low or no cost.<P>I know what you're saying about you and H not having any time to meet one another's EN, and sounds like he's resistent to wanting to try anything YOU come up with simply because he's holding onto his anger. But I truly believe eventaully he'll soften ... he does love you.<P>I have a spare copy of the SAA book, I will send it to you, my gift. Why don't you email me your address and I'll shoot it to you?<P>Jo

Whew.. you all are wonderful. Thank YOU <P>This morning after reading the first couple of posts... I was.... so depressed. Actually, I think i wokeup that way.<P>So now.. hmmmmm <BR>I own both Torn asunder and SAA. I have read them both. It is too painful for hubby to read or deal with anythgn pertaining to adultery.<P>We just moved. WE moved because of the affair. I think he is dealing with a lot of resentments concerning the move.<BR>WE have a new church. I am not sure I am at all ready to reveal this to any one yet.<BR>Connor,<BR>We have discussed this. Last night in bed he just explained that his feelings have changed about me. I think(my perspective) that he thinks i duped him. all these years. He made the comment (i think it was always there.(thots of cheating) but they weren't.<BR>He said that this time the affair brings out the "ugliness" of me. He sees a lot of bad, or not so bad, but dislikes alot of what i say and do. He said.. "my best was not my best" "i have lost all punch for life around me" he is depressed for sure. <P>the emotions around here are high. Hubby said that everytime he sees a car like OM car, he gets tofeeling panicky. IF my phone is busy...he wonders.<P>Forrest,<BR>The only reason He didn't dump me on my butt after the confession day is because of the kids. They were mortified!! Devestated. I think they are what made me sorry for what i had done before anything else. (they are 10, 8,6, 5, 4)<BR>It has been only 2.5 months since the last contact.. it had been going great.. until recently.<P>I apparently hae not been meetin his needs either. Although he talks in riddles too. One minute he will tell me i am affectionate and he really likes it, next he says i am mean to him. I cannot always figure htis out. He makes me confused.<P>I think that we need to give it a bit more time. <P>mercy<P>

Hi Mercy,<P>You know, you touched on something that might be a very hard thing for you and your H. The move. If he really liked what he did where you used to live and what he is doing now isn't as interesting to him, then there will be resentment. Further, you are in a new place with new people, and probably no one comfortable to talk with. Of course that includes the OM, but that is why you moved.<P>Mercy, your H sounds just overwhelmed. He is in a new job, he is in a new place (does he make friends easily?), he feels the financial responsibility of the family, and he is pretty sure that "his best isn't good enough". I mean the affair lasted two years and during that time I'll bet his needs weren't getting met, nor were you helping much with things (on an emotional level).<P>It has been a very short time since discovery, even shorter time since no contact, even less time since you moved. Don't you think he just might be overwhelmed?<P>What to do? Well, I cannot give him the strength to go on. You can probably give him some of the encouragement, but my guess he needs to go to church and find the strength there. Mercy, you need help as well, and I suspect church would help you as well.<P>Mercy, if you are not certain you love your H and you cannot show it regularly, where is he going to get what he needs to heal? Where are you going to get what you need to heal? I think in your case, you will get it by helping your H. <P>I may have said this to you before, and I apologize if I have, but it has been my observation that most affairs begin because someone meets another and gives to them what they need. Now the irony is that if you go and read many of the betrayers stories, they became more attached as they "gave" to the other person, not so much as they "received" from them. It bonds them. You may have experienced this.<P>Mercy, you hold many of the keys for this recovery for both you and your H. As you help him, you will help yourself. You will feel better and you will begin to sense again your worth to your family and your H. <P>He obviously loves you very much, his "feelings" for you will fluctuate from day to day depending on other stresses in his life, but Lady he wouldn't have gone through all he has if deep in his heart didn't burn a love for you. No matter what you have done, you have not been able to kill it.<P>Mercy, have some faith in your H, but also have faith in yourself. You two can make it through this. It takes time, patience, and some prayer wouldn't hurt abit. <P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL