Hi all,<P>This is a re-post from D/D forum at the suggestion of another member. . .<P>My story:<P>Two weeks ago, my husband cheated on me while I was out of town. It was a one night stand with the daughter of one of his co-workers. There is no possibility of the relationship continuing because the OW father is furious with my H and the girl is devastated by what has happened and does not want to come between us.<P>Our marriage has been in withdrawal for a while and so when my husband cheated, he thought it was justified because it was "already over." Instead of feeling remorse, my husband wants a divorce -- says he doesn't love me "that way" anymore. <P>After reading the Basic Concepts, I can understand how things got to be so bad. But it came as a surprise to me that he was ready to bail. I do still love him very much and I want to save our marriage. He says he will not get counseling ("if a couple needs counseling, they shouldn't be married") and he wants it to be over. How can I bring our marriage back to intimacy on my own? I'm willing to do whatever I have to do -- no matter how painful -- to bring about reconciliation.<P>Where do I start? What do I say to him? How do I approach him in a way that won't drive him further away? Please help. <P>KristyAnn

Welcome <B>KristyAnn</B>...<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A>.<P><B>About your post</B>...<P>You were right in comming over here...<P>Do start immediately on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>... <BR>What <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> is all about can be found in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A>.<P>Until you get it... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Plan A: Avoid <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3401_angry.html" TARGET=_blank>angry outbursts</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3402_disrespect.html" TARGET=_blank>disrespectful judgments</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3404_selfish.html" TARGET=_blank>selfish demands</A>, <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3403_annoy.html" TARGET=_blank>annoying behavior</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3405_dishonesty.html" TARGET=_blank>dishonesty</A> (i.e. <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3400_lovebust.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Busters</A>!) at all costs. (page 75 of SAA)...<B>and</B> at the same time, if your spouse would let the you, you should try to meet your spouse's most important <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html" TARGET=_blank>Emotional Needs</A> (page 77 of SAA) that is...<BR><OL TYPE=1><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3305_aff.html" TARGET=_blank>Affection</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3310_sex.html" TARGET=_blank>Sexual Fulfillment</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3315_conv.html" TARGET=_blank>Conversation</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3320_rec.html" TARGET=_blank>Recreational Companionship</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3325_hon.html" TARGET=_blank>Honesty and Openness</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3330_att.html" TARGET=_blank>An Attractive Spouse</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3335_fin.html" TARGET=_blank>Financial Support</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3340_dom.html" TARGET=_blank>Domestic Support</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3345_fam.html" TARGET=_blank>Family Commitment</A><BR><LI> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_ad.html" TARGET=_blank>Admiration</A></OL><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Plan A will keep you away from the "driv(ing) him away"... at least for the short term.<P>As far as "counselling" issue...<BR>Do it for yourself!<BR>I would recommend that you have a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> (~$95US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A> (888-639-1639)!<P>There is no better place for general support than <B>here</B>...<P>Do go through my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000002.html" TARGET=_blank>Welcome</A>. post.<P>Prayers...<P> <P>Jim

I've posted to KristyAnn in D/D... just bringing this back to the top.... anyone else have some insight for her? She's pretty much in recent discovery... Wants to fight for her marriage.<P> Mynabird

Thanks for following me over, Myna. <P>I have been posting on another website, but have found the support and information here much more positive because there's more about rebuilding -- and that's where I am.<P>Myna, you have given me some great insights and I'm sure as I work my way more and more through what this site has to offer, my quest to restore my marriage will become more focused and my path more confident.<P>Right now, my husband is more or less in complete withdrawal. I have a long row to hoe, but he's worth it -- we're worth it. I only wish I had not let it get this bad and I hope it's not too late.<P>God Bless, Kristy Ann<P>PS. Jim, Thanks for the Welcome Post. I am reading and researching as fast as I can!!

Back to the top. <BR>M

I have a question with regard to carrying out an effective Plan A. <P>Lately, my H doesn't want to hear me say I love him. He either says "I don't love you that way anymore" or he says nothing when I say it. What should I do? I want him to know that I love him. But I don't want it to be an LB for him either. Should I just say it with no expectation? Lightly, casually, smiling? What if does respond negatively? Should I just brush it off? Say "that's ok, I still love you." <P>Help, please. I would like to have some ideas before I see him again.<P>God Bless, KristyAnn

KristyAnn,<P>Welcome!,here you'll find a lot of support!<P>About your question, i think that your H is not ready now to listen the words "i love you" b/c he is very deep in withdrawal. What you can do is show him your love doing things for him i.e. fulfilling (trying to fulfill) his Emotional Needs.<P>Focus on your change! Plan A is 90% working on you!! Don't be discouraged if your H doesn't respond in a positive way immediately, continue Plan Aing!!<P>Good luck!!Keep us posted!!

Kristy Ann-<BR>I'm still pretty new to this also, but wanted to share this with you. My H was also in withdrawal for a long time before I found out about his A. During this time, I found myself telling him I loved him at times that he usually would tell me he loved me too. I realized that I was telling him just so he would say it back because I needed the reassurance. In these situations, it made it harder on him because he knew what I was up to. Anyway, since I realized this, I tried showing him instead of telling him, or saying it in conversation. Like when he would ask me why I did something nice for him, I would say "just because I love you". He still can't say it, but I know he knows how I feel and the pressure is off him to respond.

I agree with Cloudy and Trapito... he is/will be in withdrawl. <P>Just saying "I love you" could become a LB, I'm afraid. I like Cloudy's idea of doing things to show him that you love him. Eventually, he will respond. Go slow, Kristy. <P> No pressure. Unfortunately, much as we would like to just beat some sense into their heads and have done with the whole fiasco... we can't (not legally, anyway). Believe me though, no matter *what* the outcome is, you *will* be a better person by getting through this. Not that I would ever recommend it for anyone. <P> Hugs,<BR> Mynabird<P>~~~hey! Anyone else got some advice or encouragment for KristyAnn?

Dear trapito and Cloudy:<P>Thanks for helping out with that question. That's good advice. I won't say it outright and then, as Cloudy suggested, only if the opportunity comes up conversationally.<P>My H has been out of town for about a week. He should be on his way driving back today. I have a feeling he will stop before he gets all the way home at his other office in another town. We have not spoken to each other since Saturday -- and that was not a good experience. I don't really expect that he will make an attempt to call or come by until this Saturday. He has mail here that he needs and he'll want to pick it up. I also don't think he will stay here at the house. I don't know where it will be, but I'm sure he won't want to stay here.<P>I find myself absolutely terrified at the prospect of talking to him. I'm so afraid I'll say the wrong thing -- that I won't be good at plan Aing. It's going to be hard, I know. And I'm sure our first few contacts will be the hardest because he has withdrawn so far.<P>I just met with a counselor this afternoon. It was great! At the end he gave me the name of a book to read. Guess What? His Needs, Her Needs! I told him about this web site and the concepts of it and he said it was right on the money and going in the exact same direction he would be leading me. THAT was a good feeling! <P>God Bless, KristyAnn<P>

Hi all,<P>I have an issue coming up that is going to be real hard for me to get through. <P>You see, there is this "outing" planned through my H work that includes the managers and their wives. It's going to be in September for 4 days and 3 nights at a lovely bed & breakfast in the mountains. On the agenda is golfing, wonderful meals, other recreation and even a murder mystery dinner. Before D-day (7/29) we were both planning on going. Now, I'm pretty sure my H won't want me to go (although we haven't discussed it yet -- but he *has* moved out). He *must* go because there are business meetings in between fun times for him and the other managers.<P>The invitation, with all the beautiful brochures, arrived in the mail today addressed to both of us. I just cried. It seemed so distant and unreachable -- yet something I wanted so bad! How wonderful it would be to spend those days with him in such a tranquil setting!<P>I don't dare even ask if I'm still invited -- I'm afraid the answer will hurt too much. I don't was to LB, so how should I handle this? Should I just swallow the lump in my throat that is the exact same size as my heart and let it be? I know all the other managers and their wives quite well -- some are very good friends. It will be awkward for him to be there without me, and I think the other couples will feel a little uncomfortable, too.<P>Any advice? It's still about 4 weeks away.<P>God Bless, KristyAnn

I'm not really sure about this one, Kristy. Personally, I would say to at least let him know that you are open to going. If only for appearances sake? I really don't know. Perhaps just call him, let him know that the brochures arrived, and ask him if he would like to discuss it at lunch or dinner, sometime this coming week.<P> Anyone else have some suggestions?<P> Hang in there, Kristy. Hugs!<P>~~Mynabird

Thanks Myna,<P>I guess "appearances" would be a good reason for me to go. I'm not sure that he would go for that, but it might be worth a try. I probably should remember that if I suggest it and he offers the least resistance -- I need to back off.<P>Myna, you are a dear. Are you feeling "older" today? LOL Thanks for your email. You will be hearing from me.<P>Anyone else have ideas or similar problems??<P>God Bless, KristyAnn

Actually, Kristy, I wouldn't just say, "Oh okay, H, you go by yourself." <P> Tell him that you do want to go. But, also tell him that it is his decision. *Do* mention the "appearances" bit, too.<P> You're doing great, even if you don't feel like you are. I think that you have a great chance at saving your marriage. One thing I want to mention: Don't turn into a doormat, okay? There is a fine line between being amiable, and being a punching bag. This is something that I haven't seen mentioned, yet. This is that even while you are not making LBs, you do not have to accept them from your husband. I'm not saying jump all over him, if he does act like a jerk... just don't let him tear you down.<P> Hang in there, <BR>~~Mynabird<P>P.S.~~ I wanted to tell you this: It's a neat little side-effect of making love-bank deposits... the more you and your H talk, and become friends again... guess who will start making selfish demands and lovebusters? That's right, OW. They have this tendancy to drive the wayward spouses right back into their waiting wives' arms. pretty cool, huh?

Almost forgot...*Me*, old? Heck no! I was old *last* year!! LOL!

Hey, Kristy... check out CeeCee's post: "Hold onto your hats for this one!!" pretty wild! <P>~~M

Thanks Myna,<BR> <P>Will do.<P>Love and hugs, KristyAnn

Wow! What an awesome post!!! It's so great to hear a success story of such magnitude. It inspires hope when hope is sometimes the only thing we have to hang on to.<P>Thanks Myna for the tip! YOU are awesome!<P>Love, KristyAnn

KristyAnn,<P>Why don't you wait on the outing until you and your H talk. My guess is that the affair was/is very embarressing to him. I also am guessing that he felt that you no longer loved him, so why not. <P>Further, I am guessing he is second guessing the responsibility of being married and the children, especially if you two have drawn apart. He has become sort of a third/fourth wheel in things, between the kids, your job and other things, at least in his mind if not reality.<P>Do the Plan A as Myna has suggested, read here and learn more, but realize that it will take time for you to convince him of the new you if you plan on presenting him with a new you. Also it will take time for him to get around his guilt and admit he screwed up. <P>I have mentioned a book to many here,not because it is the best, but because I saw the title liked the title and read the book although it is for women. It is called "Men made easy" by Oh. I agree with many of her points. I am sure they are not unique but it is a short book. I suspect it may give you some ideas on how to more effectively deposit those Love Units and avoid LB's.<P>However, I hope by now you realize that Plan A is for you, not so much to affect your H. If it is done well, it will show him that home is a safe place to come and that you are willing to make changes in yourself.<P>Well, I have rambled on too long. Hang in there this took awhile to develop and it will take awhile to solve.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Dear JL,<P>Thanks for your reply. My H tells me its been over for "quite a while" in his mind and that's why he felt he was justified in having fling. He says he doesn't love me "that way" anymore. He also says he doesn't believe me when I say I love him, because it has been so long since I've shown him love -- and, unfortunately, he's right. I've been weaving a web of resentment, selfishness and anger trying to get *my* way and ignoring his ENs. <P>I'm in agony feeling that my self-centered actions have caused this whole thing to happen -- driven him into the arms of OW, not "love" me anymore and want it to be over. <P>Tues night I had my 1st chance to Plan A. It went well, but I'm still having to fight my old nature of wanting what I want NOW. I realize that it will take time and patience to SHOW him that I *do* love him and have experienced repentance and change in my life. He is very withdrawn.<P>I feel responsible for his wanting out -- I'm praying with all my heart and soul that it's not too late. I'm not saying his A was right (and thankfully she is out of the picture), but I can see how it got that bad. If I had only been the bigger person, saw to his ENs, he would have undoubtedly fulfilled mine by default. He really *is* a kind and compassionate person. He would have responded readily. Instead, I was cold, mean, distant, annoyed, short-tempered, used biting remarks because I was so focused on not getting my ENs satisfied.<P>Pray for us. I'm not ready to give up hope. I feel like God still has work to do here -- part of which is to change *ME*.<P>Love and prayers, KristyAnn<P>