I am interested in knowing how many out there are being affected by what they know are very long term affairs - 2 or 3 years or more ongoing. Especially anyone who is in recovery after one of those has ended.<P>Apparently, according to the slug, she and my husband have been involved for over four years - close to five by this time. It will be two years since discovery on September 14, and two months later it will be two years since he moved out. Several times over this period, people who know him have believed his relationship with slug has been on the verge of ending - I saw evidence of it again these last few weeks myself, but instead, he chose to see a lawyer about divorce.<P>Anyway, I would be interested in knowing how many others are dealing with long-term affairs and what has been happening in your lives. Thanks.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

terri<BR>First let me say that I'm so sorry your H pulled the D thing the other day. My first reaction was the same as Lor's...the slug is behind this.<P>Now to the longterm affair question.<BR>My H had an exclusive friendship with the bimbo for seven years before it got intensely physical. It was an EA to me from day one. I remember showing him an article on EAs in '92.<BR>When exactly he slept with her the first time...who knows for sure.<BR>We seem to have been bimbo free for a year now. The lies have been the biggest problem. Too many <BR>I'm not sure I believe in anything. H however seems to be totally comitted to the marriage and seems to be able to see what type of person the bimbo really was. Something most women catch onto on first sight.

Hi Terri:<P>OW has been in our lives for about five years now...on and off. During this time H has been with OW for a total of 9 months (with 2 different periods of living together), but they have continued to be in contact. The rest of the time he has been at home.<P>Jump forward to Jan 2000 and, two husbands later, OW is back and H leaves again. <P>I wish now I had not tried to win my H back during those early months of the affair since I believe to this day it has not been resolved. <P>Although OW has gone back to H, she apparently will be back in time and I will not allow my H back home until this affair is totally ended once and for all...if ever.<P>But I have given myself timelimit of a year to remain in this situation...during that time I intend to move on with my life...I will not wait for my H's decision to have a life. If he comes back it will be to a woman who has changed, has made a life for herself without him, but is willing to make room in her life if he's really ready.<P>The only problem with this situation is that every day I guestion more and more whether I really need him back at all, although I still love him. Would he be worth all the effort? Living with him will be such a challenge unless he is totally committed. <BR>I will await his commitment to determine my direction.<P>Buffy

Affair with a coworker for about four to five years prediscovery. I am not stupid, I suspected something but would convince myself that he would never do anything like that. Come on, we had two small children. He was never gone on weekends but gone one or two nights a week "playing pool" and home by 10PM. <P>A couple times I confronted him but had no hard evidence. He would deny and I would convince myself I was wrong.<P>According to h upon discovery, (at discovery I think he was truthful about what had happened but he clammed up again shortly after) he tried to break off affair several times during those years, especially when she would push him to leave me, but he would always go back. In October of 98 he had major surgery and was on medical leave for three months. She begged him to leave us so she could take care of him but he didn't. He didn't see or talk to her during this three months. She began seeing another married man during this time. H went back to work after the three months and affair resumed. Within three weeks of his returning to work I received an anonymous phone call informing me of their affair.<P>At discovery he said he was confused and wanted both. He said he would break it off with her and maybe he did but I'm sure it resumed as he's moved out three times since then. It's been a year this week since he got an apt. He lives by himself not with her. He's been with us most of the time during this separation, probably because of the kids. <P>Two months ago he got a new job within 10 minutes from our house. He's now here almost every night after work but doesn't sleep here. I feel a change, probably due to the fact that he doesn't see her every day at work.<P>I've made the changes in myself that needed to be made over the last 17 months. It's up to him now.<P>I honestly don't know how much longer I can live like this, pretending to be a family, but when I think of the alternative, divorce, my heart aches for my kids and I just can't make that decision yet. I've tried plan b and failed twice within weeks.<P>Well, that's my long term story. As for whether you can call this recovery, I don't know.<P>Chris<P>

terri,<P>Haven't posted on this forum for awhile but was browsing and saw your question regarding long term affairs.<P>I think I have held the all time award for the longest decieved spouse......my h had an affair for 11 1/2 years. When I first came to this forum I signed off "love is blind" but changed it to "eyes wide open".<P>To say the least I felt stupid, foolish and used to be that blind for so long.<P>My h and I have been in recovery for over three years now. The first 2 years were pretty touch and go but after several bouts of counseling and the grace of God I truly believe we are out of the woods.<P>They say it takes as many years to recover as the affair lasted so I guess we are ahead of the game. My situation is very different from many here for there was alot of emotional blackmail going on to keep the affair going. The devil took my h for everything he was worth but praise the Lord, God is more powerful and I now have a marriage that is working on being better then ever.<P>To God be the glory!<P>Blessings, Taj<P><P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18

Terri,<BR>My wife told me she was attracted to him the minute she saw him which would have been 8 yeras ago, (she was pregnant with our son). I assume she started walking down that path soon after. His wife told me that she considered my wife one of the few women from his work that she could talk to. W was always asking his wife about things that he was interested in....<BR>I think the affair has been full blown for six years, she told she was in love with him 4 years ago. We have been separated since November '99, she filed for D February '00 (I think). We should be final before years end.... her soulmate left his wife this April, I don't know if he has filed or not....

Hope the active affair part of your life will be over before too much longer. I didn't have to go through that part. It was almost over when I found out and I believe him that ther's been no further contact. Looks like you know working on yourself, to be what you want to be, is key. It must be very tough but lots of folks here have made the journey with varying outcomes. Does sound like your H and the OW may be headed for a fall. Isn't it so weird how people will try to cement a relationship that's running amok. Keep your head. <P>Hi Taj, we met again, after a long time, on this topic. Read many of your postings over and over. Check them out, Terri, she'll help you.<P>Here's how: Stay as positive as you can, put one foot in front of the other, learn everything you can from others but trust your own heart most, and every now and then have a good vent.<P>I shall now proceed to demonstrate that last item. <P>I'm not stupid and am in fact extremely sensitive. I pick up on all kinds of things most people don't. My H has always praised me up the wazoo for that ability...how do you make an angry face?!!?... I was less than clueless. My H's affair lasted 4 ½ years of our almost 7 year marriage. I thought we had a very rare and wonderful marriage like very few people have. Thought he told me about everything going on in his life. Could have used more affection but thought that was just him and I could accept that we had an "old comfortable shoe" marriage. <P>Looking back, I can see that way deep down inside I knew something important was missing but I need every bit of that 20/20 hindsight to see the very subtle clues as to what it was. He really would have made a fabulous double agent. I thought there was just something wrong with me. The most glaring thing hindsight lets me see is that he was astonishingly skillful at throwing me off track. The important thing is that even from all this it is possible to heal. Are we there yet? Nope. But we're the closest we've been since we started this journey and I know that within myself I'm headed in the right direction and I think he is too.<P>[This message has been edited by today (edited September 03, 2000).]<P>[This message has been edited by today (edited September 03, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by today (edited September 05, 2000).]

Today,<P>So many similarities in our experiences. I find comfort in knowing that my situation is not completely unique. The double agent remark was a zinger. One must be very crafty to carry on for any length of time but especially so when the years begin to add up.<P>Truly the length of the affair was the hardest thing to handle. Since I myself have some hindsight I have realized that my h had been very troubled for his entire life and this was just another type of acting out. Not to make excuses for there are none but I choose to look at this as a big picture not just from a shortsighted perspective.<P>I am glad to hear that my comments occasionally have been helpful. That would be one of the blessings of recovery, to know that I could possibly help another toward healing. Healing is not only possible but it takes place more often then not. The process is the pain extended beyond dislosure, but then nothing in life is free of pain is it?<P>Thanks for sharing your experience after all this time I guess I needed to still feel one with another.<P>Blessings, Taj<P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18

Terri, I don't know whether I qualify to respond. Here's why:<P>1) Not sure we're in recovery, but we are in couples counseling. He refuses to admit the relationship is an affair of any kind. (OW is "happily married, loves her husband" and "their lifestyle is better than ours due to the enormous salary he and she earn together") Yeah, there are no examples in all of history where illicit lovers ever chucked worldly benefits, honor, titles, to be with the "woman I love". Passion does strange things to people. Thank GOd for that! No need to worry - whew!<P>2) I can't say specifically when my H became Emotionally involved with the OW, I don't remember the year. It may have been as early as '95. I didn't recognize his BestFriend as an OW. <P>3) He still maintains contact with OW but is covering his tracks. I see his cell phone bill is at a constant amount, same amount for last few months, but slightly higher than it was a while back, when the amount was exact 2-3 months in a row. I don't see the actual bill; it comes to his office and he pays the administration there. I see the cancelled checks but since I exploded about how I knew he'd been talking to OW for 2 hrs a day I closed that source of information. He is clever enough to hide it.<P> I know he could be using phone cards. He sometimes takes long walks at night with the dog. When he comes back quickly I guess the OW wasn't available on the phone. When he takes an hour or more, I wonder. <P>I love the name for your OW - "the slug". <P>This topic might be interesting for a grad student in psych, marriages dealing with long-term affairs, sub-topic Emotional Affairs. This site has so much history on it!<p>[This message has been edited by Bellevue (edited September 04, 2000).]

Thank you to all who have responded. Bellevue, you are absolutely correct that there is so much history here. And, while I know that most of us would not care to be "studied" it is those "studies" that generate the data that supports MARRIAGE and FIDELITY in the end. I have considered the idea of going into Marriage and Family Therapy myself, but, since I am separated and on one income (which is not a very big one, let me tell you!) I cannot afford to go to school (but I still make too much money for any type of financial aid - go figure!). At the very least I am considering becoming involved in the Marriage Coalition and perhaps, eventually, teaching marriage classes (although I'm not sure I would elicit a great deal of confidence in my own skills if I am a divorcee!).<P>I believe that marriages CAN recover from long term affairs - but it is very likely that part of the key to that would be the betrayed (or faithful, if you prefer) spouse's ability to forgive and FORGET. I think a long term affair probably involves too many "gory details" for the BS/FS to ever get past, if they learn them all. AND I believe that is more likely that recovery from a long term affair is more likely if the recovering couple is able to move away and start fresh somewhere new to both of them.<P>I have no doubt that if we were to move away, my marriage could recover from this long term affair - unfortunately it is my husband that doesn't think it can. And I think he is operating under some mistaken assumptions about me, but will not share them - hence, what people are referring to as my <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/000266.html" TARGET=_blank> B Letter"</A> - an attempt to address some of those possible assumptions.<P>Any thoughts on these thoughts?<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Hi Terri,<P>I have decided to post a reply to your question. My case seems to be a bit different from the others that I have read here.<P>The OW in my H life happened to be my "very" good friend-one of the most fun and friendly gals I had ever known. We were friends for 5 years before my H told me that he and the "PT" had been having an on going affair since my 40th birthday-June 16, 1997.<P>H told me the "news" June 1, 1999. So I am now in my 16th month of recovery.<P>I am lucky-my H loves me and I love him. While there has been much hurt and pain during the last 16 months we are doing very very well as of late.<P>H had no withdrawal, no desire to tear the family up any more than he had already done.<P>Basically I have been the one that has had to work my way through this crap.<P>I have had to let it sink in that my H-whom I have loved more than life-and my friend-whom I valued very highly-had to sneak and cheat behind my back for almost two full long years.<P>I have had to live with the fact that my friend wasn't ever my friend and never will be my friend again. I have missed her greatly but the last 2 months have begun to find me at peace much more often.<P>In the beginning I was so very worried about who might find out. Now I could truly care less. Most of my friends and family know and have kept their opinions to themselves other than his folks who did tell him how ashamed they were-he wasn't raised that way.<P>I don't live day to day-wondering where H is or who he is with. I won't live that way. I am zapped of all my strength from this damn affair and I plan to rebuild and live life as I want to-if he screws up ever again than so be it. We will be finished right then and there. He knows I mean it.<P>I hope this helps you somewhat.<P>Best wishes!!<P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<P>I need to proof read before sending <BR><p>[This message has been edited by heartache (edited September 04, 2000).]

In response to your comment about not wanting to be studied: Yes, we all pretty much hope to remain anonymous, and retire quietly to our rebuilt marriages, and never speak again of what we endured. <P>But the lives and stories are set out here, so open (okay, we only tell our own sides of the story; the OP's and the WS's aren't represented, but still the grain of truth is there and the struggles are real.)<P>As to going into marriage therapy as a career Terri, people go into areas of treatment that they know from the inside. Drug counselors are former addicts, and if you are the child of divorce, you might want to help prevent the pain of divorce to children in marriages which are in trouble. Maybe someday you can qualify for financial aid, or take one course at a time "on-line" toward a degree. Heck, you have a computer, and you're on line!<P>What is the Marriage Coalition and where is it? Just curious.<P>I have little hope for our recovery. My H wants me to incorporate the Friendship back into our marriage, and go on as before. My memories of our "family" get-togethers are very hurtful. I felt like Alice, the housekeeper, from the Brady Bunch, old, unattractive, frumpy, but a good sport, watching the loving couple. Or loving 3-some, mutual admiration society. Her hubby, approving of her platonic "BestFriend", my hubby,, having long chats with her, me, wandering around their home talking to other relatives and trying to have a good time. <P>In my H's view, if he gives in on this, it's one more exampel of his giving in to have peace, and this is "the wrong thing to do" to drop this family as our friends. He doesn't see the evil of having their BestFriendship be more compelling than his marriage, and doesn't see the pattern that evolved as he became more involved with her and more distant to me. <P>Nobody wins here. If he drops her, he resents me. He'll have lost. Even if I win, I lose. Because he'll continue resenting me. I will have gotten in the way of his "true and pure friendship, the best friend he ever had in his life." Why wasn't he that close to her H? Or to the other men who befriended him?<P>Yeah, great idea. Let's rekindle that relationship. I walk along with them, smiling stiffly, as they joke and banter. Unable myself in my discomfort to laugh, find humor or crack jokes (something I normally do without thinking).<P>Yeah, lets go back to those happy times. With H sitting silent in our car on the way home, all talked out, barely audible when I ask him something. Looking through me when we walked into our house, looking past me. Giving me a "Hollywood Hug",a kiss on the cheek, and pulling away as soon as decently possible. Out of energy for me, having spent it all on his BestFriend. I can't wait!<P>(Vent, ramble, snarl)<P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess<p>[This message has been edited by Bellevue (edited September 04, 2000).]

Sorry Taj, I think I hold the stupid record - 13 years for my H's affair.<BR>I too knew something was missing and not right in my marriage but didn't have the stamina or strength to look for positive proof. I just hoped that it would go away. According to H,he too tried to break off the affair but ow threatened to tell me and he didn't want that to happen b/c he never intended to leave me. However in April.ow followed thru on her threat and called me. In May, she sent me copies of cards and notes given to her by my H. A few phone calls after that and nothing from her since.<BR>I hope we're in recovery again b/c of all the history and the fact that we are married 37 years.<BR>I have many difficult days and funky feelings but I am trying to trust H with my feelings and let him know what is bothering me when it happens rather than let it build up and burst at once.<BR>H has been good about answering questions and meeting my EN's for the most part.<BR>I'm still undecided about continuing the marriage but I'm letting time try to heal the wounds.<BR>Peace and love,<BR>Ronnie

Ronnie,<P>I humbly bow out of my position and regretfully pass it on to you. Couldn't believe after all this time on the forum there is another who suffered in the dark so long.<P>Glad to hear you are in recovery. My h never looked back either and although it has been very hard we are doing fine.<P>Just as in your case the ow got tired of waiting and made the grand stand play. Poor baby, she lost.......Can't imagine a women waiting for a man to leave his wife for that long, she certainly took the "crumbs off the table". I may of been stupid but she certainly was the fool.<P>Sorry for the vent, its been a while since I've felt the need.<P>Best of luck to you and yours.<BR>Blessings, Taj<P><P>------------------<BR>"Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18

Taj,<BR>I too find it hard to fathom why someone would stick around so long waiting for H to leave me.<BR>In conversation with my H regarding this, I said "you must have made some promises or at least given ow reasons for sticking around so long". His response was "maybe I did".<BR>I told H that he wasn't fair to either one of us - trying to live 2 lives. How much energy or effort did he give to either of us?<BR>However that doesn't give him permission to call her and apologize. LOL<BR>We had a rough week-end b/c of my funky feelings about our sex life. We both cried and really found no answers to our delemma.<BR>Sorry for my venting but I guess I needed it also.<BR>Peace and love, <BR>Ronnie<P><BR>

I understand not wanting to stoke the fire, but if one is burning, studying it can help you put it out. So why are people sorry for venting? This is painful stuff. It helps me to know that, although folks here are improving, there are big ouches for everyone. This means that we can keep trucking in spite of the pain. If we don't share our areas of difficulty, how can we help each other? I say YAHOO FOR US OCCASIONAL VENTERS!!! <P>

My story is at<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/000318.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/000318.html</A> <BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/000318.html" TARGET=_blank><BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/000318.html</A>" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/000318.html[/URL]</A> <P>and<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/000254.html</A> <P>and<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/000295.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/000295.html</A> <BR>[This message has been edited by alias (edited September 06, 2000).]<P>[This message has been edited by alias (edited September 06, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by alias (edited September 08, 2000).]

Alias, I only got to read one of the posts you have linked in your message, but something really stands out in to me in that one post: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Summer 1999 The lies continue, I develop panic disorder, go on Xanax. He feels incredibly guilty, offers me a divorce "Because you deserve a decent Christian husband" I refuse the offer, saying "You know the only reason I would give you a divorce, and you won't admit that."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Wow! He felt GUILTY and offered you a divorce because you deserve better... When my husband was leaving, the night he came to tell me he was seeing a lawyer, I said to him "All I ever asked you for is six months of your life. You won't give that to me - and that makes me feel like you have stolen the last 10 years from me..." His response was mumbled, but it was something to the effect of "That's why I'm doing this."<P>Earlier in his "visit" he had said "It's been two years. And nothing has changed." It is almost as if he thinks he is SUPPOSED to get a divorce because it has been so long. Or, perhaps he DOES feel guilty that he has taken the last 10 years of my life from me (well, 11 on Saturday 9/9)... It is so sad that the WS are so confused that they cannot see what they HAVE.<P>Thank you all for posting - this is great information for all who need hope.<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

My dad had many affairs w/ ow while he was married to my mom. I don't know how long most of them lasted or why..I didn't know the intricate details of the marriage relationship, in many ways, I felt like the OW in his marriage (since I was being SA by my dad since I was a tot) I guess thats how I always knew he wasn't faithful to my mom even w/ OW..The last one I know lasted at least 4 years, they worked together, when he moved out (which was one of the worst days for my mom, but one of the best for me) he moved in w/ her..my folks eventually divorced, and he married the OW, they have been together, 20 years now..from the time of the Affair and through out their marriage..After he married the OW whenever she would go out of town for<BR>whatever reason alone..he was calling my mom..asking her to meet him at a hotel or he'd come over to the house to see her, and inevidably she'd sleep w/ him..and she became the OW in his new marriage..she finally stopped seeing him when she met someone else..although she never remarried. She loved him enough to let him go..always hoping that<BR>he would return..(why is beyond me, since she knew he'd abused me) I guess I just don't understand loving someone that much that you<BR>would give up yourself respect, and your dignity to save a marriage that neither person is happy in..that you put up with whatever they dish out..and try to make excuses for their actions..<P>I guess thats what I am struggling w/ right now, I don't love my h, he's hurt me so many times over the past 14 yrs, and I have hurt him also..I know I never had any self respect, and never had any dignity..never liked myself or who I was, not when I am with him..not when I have been in any relationship<BR>in the past. I seen my mom take it and take over the years I seen her as weak and stupid for taking it..why does she put up w/ his BS..WHY does she allow herself to hurt so much for this man who has proven himself time and time again to be an A**hole..and I see myself walking in her shoes..although my h hasn't had an affair w/ another Woman..so he says..but his affair has been w/ the bottle, and work..and I wonder why I take it..I am<BR>learning that I have self worth..I am lovable, and so many other things I never seen b4..(I am a WS)and as I have been looking at within myself and healing I wonder why do I want to be w/ a Man who has shown me so many times over the years he doesn't want to be here..<P>I guess the point I'm trying to make is this..what do the kids see? how do they see how we are being by staying and taking it??<BR>do they us as weak, (as I seen my mom) do they see Mom, or dad deserves to be treated better? Or do they see that Mom or dad really loves this person and is willing to do whatever it takes to make this marriage work?<BR>And how will their marriages be because of it? I know my relationship w/ my dad was different so maybe my take on it was different..but I still wonder..how do the kids see it? <BR>

Dear Rose,<P>Your life is so hard, I am very sorry that your father messed up.<P>I feel that you have had a harder time than most to find your identity, and you seem to be on the threshold of that discovery. <P>I am currently reading "Forgive and Forget - healing the hurts you do not deserve" by Lewis B. Smedes. I think it is relevant your case as well because it addressed SA children.<P>You have come this far having walked in a daze through a thicket of thorn bushes, and you have had so little real guidance in your life. You must have been a strong and plucky little girl growing up. I really wish I can wash your horrible memories away and scrub with my hands the stains of your abuse. I know Jesus can and will, if you let him.<P>Growing up seeing the way your mother allowed 'love' to lead her blindly did have a great impact on you. I know because my mother was a WS and sometimes I feel like role-modelling her. But I had the most honourable and wonderful father, and it helped.<P>You wisely recognise the effects of all your past traumas on your self esteem and now you are starting to do something for yourself. Please get the right support group to help you rebuild your life and heal and restore your self worth and self love.<P>God Bless You.<BR>weep