Hi everyone,<P>As you may remember, my last post was concerning the discovery of new evidence - should you, or should you not, disclose it? Well, now unfortunately I think I am in that position and don't know how to handle it.<P>My H is a skipper on a private yacht here in Spain, and at the moment is with the boat on the neighbouring island of Ibiza for a couple of days. Normally I go with the boat, but this time he didn't want me to - first clue. Whenever he spends time away from home, he always calls me last thing at night and first thing in the morning - when I hadn't heard anything by 10am this morning I started to call him on his cell phone - no answer. When I still hadn't been able to reach him after 1 and half hours, I called one of the other crew on the boat and asked could I speak to my H. His answer was so washy, that I asked him straight out had my H slept on the boat or not? He then replied 'I don't want to get involved, make of that what you will'.<P>My H eventually called me at 12.30pm, this is after I had been trying to reach him for almost 3 hours on his cell phone, his reasons for not answering were equally washy. He uses his cell phone for work and it is practically surgically attached to him - so I know what he is telling me is crap.<P>He's due home tonight, and from previous experience I know that confronting him with anything normally drives him away - but how does one cope with all these lies?<P>I'm obviously thinking the worst - that he spent the night in an hotel over there with the OW. Even though he swears blind that it's over ( for the second time, that is) bla..bla..bla....<BR> <BR>I have no actual proof, and he knows that, so he'll just deny it till he's blue in the face - and it will no doubt end in major LBing. I know the Plan A thing recommends acting normal etc., but how can I when I feel so bad?<BR>Believe it or not, I still want this marriage to work - but at what point should you think about giving up - if only to save your own sanity?!?<P>Right now this forum is the only thing thats keeping me sane - I feel as if the whole world has gone mad, and that pretty soon I will wake up and all the madness will have disappeared - no such luck....<P>I'm sad, hurt, angry, depressed, confused and desperate for some kind of peace. I know a lot of you are in much worse positions than myself right now - but I slowly feel it's all getting too much for me to handle. I'd be grateful for any advice or help from any of you.<P>Thanks <BR>Trisha<P>

trisha,<P>Stay the Plan A course...<P>If you really have to know...<BR>...speak more a length with the crewman you phoned.<P>No bluffs about what you know/don't know...<P>Be honest using the "assertive communication techniques" mention in TNT's and my replis to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/002262.html" TARGET=_blank>How to say my feelings without it being a LB</A>.<P>PTC... <P>Jim

Hi Trisha,<BR> Oh how I know about the denying it til they are "blue in the face". "Never tell" was always my H's motto. Well let me ask you this.....do you know how to take a pulse? I'm a nurse, so when I had my best suspicion and H still denied it, acting calm as a clam, and I KNEW I was right, I grabbed his wrist and took his pulse and then asked him,"well if you aren't lying then why is your heart about ready to jump out of your chest?" What could he say? It was then that he broke and I got the truth. Hope you find a way to get to the bottom of this. Good luck.<p>[This message has been edited by mthrrhbard (edited September 15, 2000).]

<BR>Based on what you have said here, I think you're right. You have enough evidence. You now have to decide if you want to be right, or you want to be married.<P>I really don't feel very good about telling you what you should do, so I'll tell you what I would do. I'd keep it to myself. I would get a notebook and start a journal. I would write down everything I knew and add to it as new things came up. When I started doing this, I found that I didn't have so much anxiety about remembering all those details. I started to relax and it became a lot easier to go through my day because I wasn't juggling all the facts in my head anymore. I would also find some sort of activity that occupies my mind, like crossword puzzles or reading a mystery novel or playing chess or something like that. I also have a prescription for Xanax that I fall back on about once a month when my anxiety gets totally out of hand.<P>I'd do whatever it takes to not confront him with this. It's circumstantial evidence and he knows it. I'd guess that the odds are very much against anything productive coming out of a confrontation with him. You already know all this.<P>I am so sorry for your pain. I wish there were more that I could do to help. I know well the feeling of living in a nightmare that you can't wake up from and there's nothing in the world like it. It'll get better.<P>Slightly Sane<BR>

If you have to know the truth, then don't bash him over the head with your evidence--just calmly tell him how worried you were about him, and that you realize he is not being as honest as he could be. That you would rather know the truth of the situation, that kept him from his phone, than to guess and get the wrong idea that could hurt both of you...etc. just convince him honesty, good or bad, is better than silence.<P>I live that every day with my "in the fog" H. It is the worst and loudest silence I have ever heard. <P>Just keep it cool...

Hi Trisha:<P>Oh, I remember it well...all the lies that couldn't be true, but I was expected to believe because I couldn't prove they weren't true. How helpless you feel to do anything.<P>Here's what I did...I turned the tables on him...put him in the position of having to consider himself dishonorable or stop the lying. I told him that after the last involvement with OW I wanted to trust him very badly when he said it was over. I told him that I was going to trust him to do what was right and that from then on I would not be checking up on him and I would not ask. From that time on, he was as honest with me as he could be, in the face of his continuing involvement with OW. It hurt like hell a lot but it's better then being lied to. At least you know what you're fighting and in a way it still keeps the line of communication open and there's a lot to be learned in the exchange.<P>Let us know what happens.<P>Buffy<BR> <P><BR>

Hi everyone,<BR>Thanks for all your prompt replies, it really means a lot to me at the moment.<P>Well, H returned home last night (on time for once) he was in a good mood and seemed happy to see me. This is the confusing part, he is so sweet to me most of the time, cuddling in bed etc. What should I make of this?<BR>Anyway moving on, I managed not to confront him with my evidence as I have learnt that this does not benefit me at all. But I need to let him know that I know he's not telling the truth. This I am having difficulty with, as his constant denial seems to squash any hope of getting through to him.<P>Buffy<BR>I have tried to follow your advice on a previous post, and made it my business to work on the marriage, rather than to get bogged down in the nitty gritty of gruesome details. I realise now that it won't change his behaviour, yet I might be able to change our marriage if I concentrate my energies in a positive rather than negative direction.<P>I also think that your idea of changing the tables is a good one. That is definitely worth a try! Thanks for all your support during this difficult time.<P>burnedspouse<BR>Oh how I wish I could bash him over the head with anything!! Let alone evidence!! Maybe it would knock some sense into my once sane H. No such luck - I suppose that leaves the hard option. I do pray that I could convince him of the value of honesty, but he seems so intent on avoiding any possible confrontations right now, that that is a far off dream. But I am staying cool, something a few weeks ago I couldn't possibly obtain.<BR>Thankyou for your thoughts - they are<BR>invaluable.<P>o2bsane<BR>Thanks for the diary idea. I did in fact start one a few weeks ago, but then things started to happen so thick and fast that I abandoned it for a while. Bad move. I also found that it really helped to straighten the jumble of facts and sometimes fiction, that were spinning around loose in my head. I will take it up again.<BR>Will this situation really get any better? I pray each day for peace of mind,and some order in this chaos.<BR>Please keep posting, when you have time. I appreciate it.<P>mthrrhbard<BR>Yes, I do know how to take a pulse - good tip! Next time new evidence rears it's ugly head I shall definitely give it a try. It's a shame I have to even think that new evidence will arise.. but now suppose I'm resigned to it. <BR>Thanks again.<P>Jim<BR>as you may have guessed,I've decided that I don't really need to more than I already do, and will put my energy into working on my marriage -hopefully with positive results!<P><BR>Once again everyone, thankyou all. You have saved my life in no small way with your genuine concern and intelligent replies.<P>Remember:<BR>"Someone may put out the candle,<BR>but that isn't the end of the fire."<P>Love Trisha

trisha, <P>I'm a little late in responding. Saturday morning with kids is crazy.<P>I may have told you this before but I gathered quite a bit of "evidence". The majority of it I did not share with my H. It served no other purpose than to confirm and reconfirm what I already knew. I let him know several times in a non LB'ing way that I knew what was going on and did not want to live that way. I also decided early on that my efforts would be about repairing what was wrong with our relationship. The OW was a symptom of what was wrong with our relationship.Other than to say that I disagreed with what he was doing, I largely ignored the subject of her and their relationship. I of course relied heavily on the SAA book and did the best Plan A I could possibly muster. Toward the end of their A, he started reading HN/HN. This helped him see beyond the "fog". Maybe your H could benefit from this.<P>It seems that you already know what may be going on. It's possible if he his being as nice to you and cuddling etc., that he may be coming out of the fog and just still be confused about things. You should try to relay your feelings to him and see if you can get him to open up to you about what he is feeling at this time. Even if he continues to deny what you know is the truth, he at least knows that you know and that is something he will be thinking about. You see what I am saying? He may not acknowledge it to you but he will be processing that information on his own. I would choose a quiet relaxing evening to do that. Sometimes I don't know when the right time is until it actually gets here.<P>Continue to concentrate on the positive and on your Plan A. You will continue to have doubts until your trust in him is fully restored. I am learning that the hard way and we are 3 months into recovery. <P>Also, you live in a very beautiful country, go explore and do romantic things together. This will create good feelings between the two of you. Something that we can all use a little more of.<P>cleo

Trisha,<P>Sorry for the delay in replying as I rarely get to this board.<P>I agree wholeheartedly with NSR <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A><P>I suggest getting the book <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6030_love.html" TARGET=_blank> Busters"</A> by Dr. Willard Harley It will tell you every thing you need to know about lovebusting.<P>Bill

Dear Trisha,<P>Sorry I got on late but it is always so reassuring to be here because some wonderful soul would be on to you with a little lifeline soon.<P>The reason I was not on was because I was attending a three day healing ministry that lasted till rather late in the evening.<P>I read that you pray and that is one of the wisest and best things you can do right now. I am not you because I am the 'you get out of my house' type of person if I discovered the affair at any time. So the suggestions I am making will not involve taking that 'confrontational stance'.<P>Read as much of the books by Lewis B. Smedes, Derek Prince, Stormie (power of the praying wife) and Max Lucado. Learn about forgiving and learn about the power of prayers. Research on the blessed healers and look for healing in you (emotional trauma or rejection). Please read my reply to Cjack.<P>When you start having peace of mind and let Jesus do the miracles, you worry less although you may not be trusting of your H. That allows you to take time off to pursue interesting and useful things (please read Discarded's in Divorced and divorcing because there are many good suggestions there on activities as well as working through the whole grieving process). Once you show much interest and excitement in living as well as feel and look radiant, he will be intrigued and sit up and notice.<P>Another thing, leave the books you are reading around so that he stumbles on them, especially the one on the Power of the Praying Wife by Stormie. He will at least know that you are onto his case and the excitement of illicitness will wear off. If he cares enough, he will make the time with her shorter because he becomes more careful.<P>You may want to get a P.I. for the evidence in case things get out of hand.<P>Like a number of the cases, usually the H will return once the affair is out in the open, and the fog is lifted. <P>God be with you<BR>weep