I just got the book, Surviving an Affair, from the library. I am very excited yet confused by the information. I'm hoping someone can help use it for my benefit.<P>I discovered 1 month ago that my husband of 14 years was having an affair with a (married) co-worker. Of course I never thought that he would ever do this. By the time I found out, he was well into an affair of "soul mates". They had already discussed how they could be together. However, he did not immediately say he wanted to leave. He said he was confused. The days and weeks that followed were ones of great depression for him and upheaval for me. We continued to live together. We said nothing to our six year old son. I attempted to meet his emotional needs as I had not be doing previously. This was primarily sexual. <P>We spoke separately to our pastor who recommended couseling. However, after only one session together my husband was unwilling to commit to working on our marriage. He feels that he is very much in love with this other woman. He continued counseling in an attempt to reach a "decision". We told no one else.<P>One week ago he reached a decision to leave me. I was devastated. We started telling other people the next day. However, my husband seemed no happier. In fact he had a complete emotional meltdown. After discussing with friends, I suggested a six month separation. He readily agreed. He plans to seek counseling and possible treatment for depression (we feel that he may suffer from chronic low-grade depression.) Due to timing, this has not been put into place yet.<P>Now after reading this book, I feel I have acted unwisely. I wish I had been able to follow Plan A from the beginning. I did not avoid angry outbursts at all. I had an extremely violent and angry episode about a week or two after I found out. My husband is not continuing the sexual part of the affair right now, but he has seen the woman for lunch and dinner several times. She has told her husband but not left him yet.<P>I still want this marriage to work. I feel that if he would give us a chance I could meet his emotional needs. I feel that his view of the future with this woman is based on fantasy and wishful thinking. What should I do now? Can I implement Plan A with the separation. We had planned to see each other some amount with our son and some "dates" He also plans to see the other woman. Is my only option to implement Plan B? He is the financial supporter. I am a stay-at-home mom. He plans to fully support me during this time. <P>I would prefer to us Plan A if this is possible even with a separation. We have set a six month time frame for this separation.<P>Any help anyone can give would be appreciated. I was glad to find a book that said a marriage could be saved after an affair of this magnitude.<P>

mcmp:<P>You can use Plan A while you are separated. It is a little harder to show how you have decided to change you actions and meet H's needs, but it can be done. <P>You are new to the forum, but obviously know quite a bit about the needs issues from Harleys book. Please go look for NSR's post to new comers on this thread (Just Found OUt) he has bookmarked many pieces of useful information that you can find here. He has also some particularly useful stories from this forum. Please read these as well as the articles. <P>You will get a better idea of what works and what doesn't. As for your choices, you have many. Really evaluate the Plan A process, it is for you, it is not really to end the affair, but to show the spouse that he/she has a place to come that is safe, no LB's. It is not about being a doormat, but about expressing you opinions and feelings in a nonLB way.<P>You will get many more responses but today is Fri. of a long weekend so the number will be small until next week. If you don't get more, simply add to this thread something about moving it up and it will go to the top of the list.<P>Have patience, your situation is not hopeless.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

mcmp:<P>I'm sorry to hear of your pain, but I'm glad you've found us. There are a lot of really great people on this site who can help you a great deal.<P>You and your H (husband) can still save your marriage. You don't need to go to Plan B just because he is moving out. Plan B is where you go after you've tried Plan A. <P>Keep the lines of communication open with your H. Read about Emotional Needs and see if you can see some areas where you can go the extra mile to meet your H's even while you're separated.<P>The most important, and hardest, thing to do is to avoid Love Busters. It's really hard. Try to come here and vent when you feel you need to. Folks here will listen and will often be able to help you calm down.<P>Be prepared for a real roller coaster of emotions for the next several months. It is amazing to me how I've gone from up to way down to the middle again.<P>Hang in there. You will get through this.<P>All the best to you. --HBC

You can definately do plan A while separated. In fact, perhaps it gives him some time to really delve(sp) into his depression.<P>My H of 12 years wanted out of our marraige "suddenly" after a long business trip overseas with a married coworker. He also was "confused"..... He is also suffering depression related to unbelievable stress at work.... Op has been at his side "working" it!!! She is married also.<P>My H was like a runaway train at first...His is a "soul mate" EA also....<P>When my H first moved out he seemed ecstatic. I actually helped him pack and gave him many things from our house. He would come here and talk about his new apt. This is all very unusual for my very conservative (prior to EA very devoted H and father)H.<P>I did plan A and it was difficult because he didn't let me at first. I really deflected a lot of his projections.... Things were going well....he was also in counseling himself. (and still is)'<P>But OW got worried he was coming back to me and moved out into her own apt..and the fog thickened.....he now maintains he just enjoys working with her....but still will not work on marraige.<P>I had to detach further to a plan B....but now he has really reconnected with our children and sees them a lot.... He is mad at me because I am not talking to him, but he is really loving his kids.... He also made a comment to someone about realizing the view of his colleages and family and friends..... Reality will always set in...we just have to keep the home environment safe and be strong for them in whatever way we know will show strength to them..... <P>I think you can plan A and also show him you recognize his confusion and pain and his need for dealing with it.... To me that's unconditional love.... <P>keep posting here and asking questions....

Thanks for all the replies to my posting. I really thought our situation was unusual, but see that it is not.<P>I know that it will be different to avoid love busters. Even though I definitely want our marriage to work, I am certainly extremely hurt and angry. I feel that H is being very selfish. However, I see now that it is not only pointless but detrimental to voice these feelings to H right now. I am determined to show him how I can improve in the areas previously lacking in our marriage. <P>Would it be a good idea to have H read the book? I know at this point he would still think his EA/SA was of a more lasting nature. He also feels some amount of committment to OW already. He would feel like he was hurting her to break it off now. But mostly he is just unable to give up the attachment because it is meeting his emotional needs.<P>I know that the book says most affairs die a natural death. How can you tell if it is possibly a relationship that would last like H is convinced it is? <P>I am so glad that I found this book and website. Thanks to everyone.

mcmp,<P>Attempts to educate the wayward spouse, WS, are often interpretted by WS as a LB. They don't need educating, they are doing the right thing. Yeah right! No, just quietly go about evaluating as best you can your part in the demise of the marriage. The affair is his business and his decision, but the state of the marriage before the affair is both of your responsibility.<P>Plan A is really about three things. One making the WS realize that they could come home and not face a life of LB's. Second, is about addressing the betrayed spouses role in the demise of the marriage, and finally it is about allowing the affair to work its course.<P>It is likely to end a bit sooner if you present an attractive alternative to the OW. You are not really competing with OW, because you have history on your side and you two are married. What you are doing is becoming stronger, and more aware of the dynamics of a marriage, specifically your marriage. Once you understand your marriage better and your role, you will find you will understand things better.<P>And in this situation Knowledge is definitely power. So hang in there and do a good Plan A. Time is on your side.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Thanks for the advice, although I ignored it. I told H about the book and plan A. Actually, it didn't upset him at all. He felt that it validated his feelings for OW rather than saying it's all an infatuation like friend have said. Right now he feels as if he can't live with either decision. I try to convince him that for our child and our 14 years together he could make the sacrifice and give up OW. I acknowledged that it wouldn't be easy and that he would go through pain, grief, and withdrawal. He just cannot make that choice now. It hurts me greatly. I want to scream at him that he's being selfish. (I avoided this however.) He is in such pain and depression now. At least the pain and depression following that decision would be making progress toward eventual healing. But he can't see that now.<P>Part of the problem is that total separation from OW would be very difficult in our situation. H, OW, and OWH are all tenured faculty in the same department at a local university. It would be next to impossible to get another job. My H is realizing that if he stayed with me he would have to not only change jobs, but change careers. This is adding to his depression. He is scared of the future. <P>He has not yet called to get help for his depression. He won't talk to some of our friends because he feels defensive. He doesn't want to hear what they have to say. He won't go to church anymore because he's ashamed and afraid to face the few people who know. He will talk to me. I really don't see him being able to give up OW. Our current plan is a six month separation with him seeing me and her. However, I don't really know that that will help. I will try to implement Plan A, but I don't think the affair can die a natural death under those circumstances. Also, time has never gone by so slowly for me as it has since I found out. I don't know if I can survive this and make it through the time that it could take. <P>I feel so self-centered posting such long messages all about my pain. However, when you don't have anyone to talk to, it seems like the only thing that helps.<P>MCMP

Just wanted to post an update to my situation. It turned out that hearing all the stuff from Surviving an Affair really upset my H. He said it confirmed what he'd been thinking, that if he stayed with me he'd have to change jobs and we'd have to move from this city. He says he doesn't think he could stay in this area. It's a large metropolitan area, and we live 1/2 hour from OW. He is terrified of the future either way things work out.<P>On one hand I'm glad he's even considering the possibility of staying. On the other, now he has me scared. I don't know if I have what it takes to stay with him if it means so much upheaval in our lives. I'm furious at him for creating this mess. Sometimes I feel like I should just set him free. I even asked him about that. He said he didn't think it was that easy. He has emailed OW about info in book too. He has also been so depressed. Says he plans to call the doctor today about a referral to psychiatrist. <P>Anyway, today is our 14th anniversary, so it is going to be a difficult day.<P>MCMP

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mcmp:<BR><B>Anyway, today is our 14th anniversary, so it is going to be a difficult day.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, happy anniversary, for what it is worth <P>Is he actually out of the house yet? If not, and he truly has stopped the sexual aspect (really?) perhaps you can float a plan where he works on that marriage for 60 or 90 days before going to separation. <P>You seem to be up to continuing Plan A, and if you can do that, it is better done with him around so you can fulfill as many ENs as possible. And if he is out of the house, surely the physical affair will start back up.<P>I'd suggest proposing to him that you postpone the separation and use your newfound knowledge here to work on the marriage. <P>Do you know what ENs the OW is meeting that you weren't?<P>And how is the OW's H taking this?<P><p>[This message has been edited by Mike C2 (edited July 05, 2000).]

My H hasn't actually moved out yet. He put in an application for a furnished apartment today. I did tell him he could stay, but don't feel like I should push it. He plans not to take up the sexual part of the affair. He wants to prove that it is more than that.<P>Sex is definitely an EN that I was not meeting. I think affection and admiration must fall in there too. However, affection was only lacking probably because of the sex thing. I pulled back in all ways. How important is it to analyze why I was acting that way? I feel that I can do better. We have always had good conversation, but he definitely gets that from her too. I guess I wasn't showing admiration, although I felt it. Also, she is somewhat fitter than I am. Recreational companionship is also an area. The affair really took off on a faculty trip to Peru in May. I have real trouble with altitude and endurance, and my H has come to love hiking in the mountains (he didn't even know he liked this when we married.) Basically the only area OW wasn't meeting was domestic support, and my H doesn't put this high on his list. <P>From what I know, OWH asked her not to do anything right away--said he wanted to stay married to her. However, apparently he met none of her EN. I considered sending him the book SAA. I really don't know as I get the word from my H who gets is from OW. How accurate would this be? <P>He called his physician today and goes on Monday. He is keeping busy with household projects today, and that makes him feel better. It's distracting.

mcmp,<P>You said and asked <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Sex is definitely an EN that I was not meeting. I think affection and admiration must fall in there too. However, affection was only lacking probably because of the sex thing. I pulled back in all ways. How important is it to analyze why I was acting that way? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The answer to your question: It is very important to analyze why you were acting that way. Why, well it seems to me you cannot offer your H a better marriage if you don't understand your part in it coming apart.<P>Now don't get me wrong the affair is definitely his fault, but the state of the marriage is the work of both. Further, he felt he had little to lose by having the affair. He is wrong, but if sex is a major EN, and it is for most men the #1, then not having that met, comes down to why am I married to her?<P>Now you cannot expect to have a healthy marriage if his #1 need is something you don't like to do. You will do it for awhile but eventually the same thing will occur. He knows that and you know that. <P>So it seems to me you really need to understand what is going on here. Once you do (it is part of Plan A for the spouse to understand and fix to the best of their abilities their shortcomings) then you can offer him hope that the marriage will not only be better, but it will be different.<P>As for the other needs, well admiration and affect, are very important, but I suspect hard for you to do right now. All of this is hard to do. <P>The good news is that he did react to the book. Now you just need to convince yourself and then your H, that you are willing to come to the marriage with a different perspective. I really hate the word change, because Plan A and reconcillation don't really require a person to change in a profound way. Mostly it requires a new perspective on marriage and what it takes, as well as on ourselves and spouses.<P>Then the behavior will change.<P>In any event I hope this helps.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

when i first read this story i thought you were talking about me. i am an OW. my OM and OMW are both tenured faculty in an university and have been married 14 years. the cirumstances sound almost the same, but i do have some encouraging news for you. after he moved out of his house we realized that it wasn't going to work. we both have so much history with our spouses, including children. we had an affair that lasted 2 and a half years and thought that we were made for each other. the only reason we didn't make any moves to end our marriages earlier was that OMW was up for tenure and we didn't want to jeapordize it. he moved out on april 9, but didn't tell her about us until may 30. OM also suffers from depression - as a matter of fact that's what started the whole affair...he told me he was depressed and suicidal, i tried to help by talking to him - then one thing lead to another over a 4-month period. anyway, on may 31 we said our goodbyes. i printed off some material from this site and gave to him. it's been a very hard withdrawal for me. we aren't in the same dept but we are in two inter-acting depts. i'm not faculty,i'm an administrator. we've seen each other in passing several times but haven't spoke (but everytime that happens it takes me days to get over it!). i thought it was very important to go along with the no contact rule. both of us are working on our marriages now (i never told my husband, i feel like he doesn't deserve the pain - he's a great guy and i know he wouldn't leave me over this. we have been married 23 years).<BR>what i'd like to say though, when it came down to it, it was the history of our marriages that made us decide to end the A. although we still felt very much in love, i don't think our relationship would have lasted. there are many more places, songs, etc that would have made me remember and miss my husband. i made a foolish mistake, and i'm still very much in withdrawal. but there IS hope! OMW emailed me the other day calling me a whore, etc. That hurt more than anything. I feel so bad for her. even though he told me that he was going to leave her even before i came into the picture. 3 years ago i never thought i could ever have an affair, and it has definitley taught me a lesson. it's not worth it!<BR>hang in there! talk about the good times, and the good memories you've had with your husband. play some music that takes you back to when you first met.<P>jill<BR>

Jill,<P>I realize you are in withdrawal, but I want to convey something to you that I feel will become important to you as you recover. You will need to tell your H sometime. <P>The reason is that the affair will always stand between you and your H. Your guilt and constant comparing between OM and your H will eventually get to you. You will find it hard to accept your H's love (guilt) and when you cannot it will affect him.<P>He may not know about your affair, but don't think he hasn't noticed the marriage has been poor at best the last 2 1/2 ? years. You may well find that you will need help healing yourself and your marriage. He can help you tremendously.<P>Jill, there are some on this board who have not told their spouses about the affair but many eventually found it necessary. There is a long thread by "Wings" I think where many OW/WS discuss this very issue. If you haven't read it or cannot find it let me know. I will do my best to find it for you.<P>Keep posting here. Your advice to mcmp was very good and you will get some great insight from people here as you start to rebuild your marriage.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

jill,<P>I can only hope that the OW in my situation will come to the same decision you have. I am only getting my H's view on this, and he feels that she doesn't love her H at all, and they were headed for divorce eventually any way. But they have kids and a marriage of over 15 years, so there must be some feelings there.<P>I am away visiting my mom right now. It is hard not being there with my H. He visited his best friend out of town over the weekend, and that was good for him. I spoke to him on the phone last night, and I think I bring on the waves of depression. It is so discouraging and frustrating. He was seeing his internist today and hopefully will be referred to a physchiatrist. I really hope that once he is treated for depression, things will get better. He has found a furnished apartment to move into, but I have told him I want him to stay. I think he will put a deposit on it, but wait a week or two. But since just being around me seems to depress him, I don't know how I can Plan A. I am being loving, not angry, and trying to meet his EN, but I am a constant reminder of what he's done.<P>He is talking more about staying, but this is by saying he will have to quit his job and move out of town if he does. I really don't want to move out of town. I have trouble making friends and I finally feel settled here and we have his sister and kids nearby for family ties for our child. I haven't expressed my reluctance to move. I'm hoping he wouldn't really need to move. OW lives 1/2 drive from us as is. If he got an entirely different job, I don't think he'd even need to go to her part of town. (It's a very large metropolitan area). Nevertheless, I wonder if I'm willing to do what it would take to make our marriage work. I would really resent having to move from a city we like because of this affair that he had! It really makes me angry. But next time we talk, he could be back to wanting to be with her. <P>The hardest part is knowing that this is going to take so much time. Both he and I are very much problem solving, action taking people. It is so frustrating not to be able to do something that has an immediate effect. How have others coped with this? Any recommendations on counselors? I think I can convince him to do some kind of counseling with me and I need some counseling for myself to figure out why I wasn't meeting his needs and whether I really do want this marriage to work. How do you go about finding good counselors?<P>Thanks. mcmp

dear jl,<P>thank you for your comments. i will definitely give them some thought. i was ready to tell my husband on d-day. i even arranged a weekend when nothing was planned and knew what i wanted to say. but then i couldn't get the words out. my husband is really a great guy, he adores me. this is going to devastate him. i've been trying to ease my guilt by just making his life as pleasant as i can. it hasn't seemed like a sacrafice at all. i haven't been overdoing anything either. i don't want it to be too obvious. but you are right, there may be a day that i will feel the need to tell him. but after seeing the pain we inflicted on omw, it's really hard. i will definitely keep coming here though, this is where i may find the strength to do what i have to do.<BR>thank you!<P>jill

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jillG:<BR><B>but you are right, there may be a day that i will feel the need to tell him. but after seeing the pain we inflicted on omw, it's really hard</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If I were you, I'd wait until your withdrawal is over...both so you can totally focus your whole soul on nursing your devastated husband, and that you can honestly present the situation as one in the past.<P>And behave yourself in the future.The pain isn't worth the pleasure.<BR>

Jill,<P>You have one major problem and it is a big one. Your OMW is very mad and it is possible she will tell you H. If he finds out from her rather than you, things will be much tougher. Why? trust issues. <P>If he finds out from her then he knows you have been lying to him, which you have, but you have done it without conscience. If you tell him at least he knows you have a conscience and you loved him enough to tell him the truth.<P>It seems to me you are in a more precarious situation than you think. You are not the only one who knows the truth and at least one of them is mad at you and may want revenge.<BR>Now you have to ask yourself, "Do you feel lucky?" <P>Seriously, you have control of the situation now and break it to H in the best possible situation, but you may not in the future.<P>I am not trying to scare you or brow beat you into telling your H, but it seems you may have forgotten the other possibility; that he will find out from another source.<P>Interestingly, from my readings here it would seem that longer the time between the affair and the disclosure, the more pain. I don't know why, maybe when the affair was going on the spouse knows something is up. After it is over for quite awhile, the spouse then feels completely duped by the WS and it hurts even more.<P>Just speculation, you could post a question here and see what people here feel about it. I know most will say tell your spouse, but I there are some where the spouse has said it hurt so bad the wished they never knew. However, you case suggests that your spouse may find out, and then the issue is which way is best to handle it.<P>I hope I haven't discouraged you. But do thnk about this.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

mcmp,<P> It occured to me the rather drastic actions your H envisions occuring: changing jobs, and location, maybe just his way of punishing himself for the affair. As you stated he is depressed, and sometimes when people are depressed they tend to really swing the other way. From what you said if he changed jobs that would be all that was required to remove OW from his life, if not his mind.<P>However, the drastic action may just be his depression acting. Perhaps when you get home and can talk with him more, and hopefully he gets meds for depression, a more reasoned approach will emerge.<P>You are doing well in controlling the LB's. As you point out they won't help the situation and in his current state will only drive him away.<P>Hang in there mcmp. It seems as if you are doing well.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

>It occured to me the rather drastic actions >your H envisions occuring: changing jobs, >and locations may be just his way of >punishing himself for the affair.<P>I'm hoping this might be true. I haven't reacted to these statements yet. I've just said for him not to worry about that now but get help for his depression first. The other possibility is that he says it in hopes to get a rise out of me.<P>Unfortunately he's seen his internist who didn't think he was depressed. He said he thought it was just stress and no one is really happy. I'm very disappointed. The doctor did recommend seeing a clinical psychologist, and hopefully they will be more helpful. From all my H's signs and what I've read, I really think it's a clinical depression.<P>He's still working on the apartment though.

jl,<BR>i don't think ow will tell my husband - but then again...obviously i didn't forsee any of this. i think i will post the question, especially to see how the betrayed feel.<P>how do you tell someone when they think everything is ok?....how do you even bring it up? <P>jill