<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by persistant:
<strong>HT, did you expect any OTHER comment from your Pastor. Your wife probably replayed the "no you're not going to separate counseling if I don't say so" instance to him. Don't dwell on that LB. It happened, it's over, and it's been what, three days with no LB now. Hey, you're on a roll.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hey, P! My W didn't say anything, because the Pastor asked her to talk to him. She wouldn't do so! She said that she has nothing to say! She said that she is just trying to make day by day, and NOTHING has changed! Her feelings haven't changed for me at all! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I asked her, "Have you seen any changes in me?" And, she said, "I know you are trying, but for every step we take forward, we end up taking 5 steps backwards! So, even though you seem to be trying, we end up fighting again! So, as a result, it hasn't done any good, and I feel no different than I did 7 months ago." And, that's all she had to say.<p>Then, the Pastor told me how I was trying to control my W, and make HER change. He said, "How can you do this?! I mean, you aren't even emotionally married! So, how can you make ANY demands on your W?! Why can't you be supportive of the fact that she is trying to get help?" <p>Well, I told him that he was right. And, I have been selfish about the POJA thing. I told my W that I was sorry, and I would try harder. She said, "I know you will. It's OK." <p>Well, I have to admit that I'm glad she told me that. But, (Deep Down) there is a part of me that wants HER to take SOME of the responsibility for our downfall, too! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyways, I guess I really AM on "a roll" as you put it, because of no LB's for 3 days! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] But, I'm still feeling down, cause I thought we were making progress, and I guess I was wrong. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>So, P! How are you doing? Ready for Christmas?<p>Take care, and God Bless!<p>HT<p>[ December 21, 2001: Message edited by: HurtTired ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by HurtTired:
<strong><p>Well, I have to admit that I'm glad she told me that. But, (Deep Down) there is a part of me that wants HER to take SOME of the responsibility for our downfall, too!<p>But, I'm still feeling down, cause I thought we were making progress, and I guess I was wrong. <p>So, P! How are you doing? Ready for Christmas?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hey HT, just got back from the grocery store with my daughter. I'm cooking for the family on Sunday - 14 people. Gonna tackle a prime rib. Tomorrow some crab puffs, dips and other stuff to make. You know, I had this flashback two years ago when I was making crab puffs and my wife was heavily depressed, and that's when she first told me she wanted a divorce. Making it through this holiday is really going to be emotional and stressful. I need to buy more wine!<p>Re: responsibility; my wife told me "I'm sorry" the night she confessed. I don't think she's sorry for what she did, but instead sorry for hurting me. I think she fully justifies what she did as correct because she felt love for OM, and it must be right if she fell in love. Right? Soul mates! That's the part that is hard to live with now - essentially waiting for her to get over love for OM. And, in reality, we know that's not happening, just that she coming to grips with the reality that relationship cannot work out. We had a short discussion about the stuff I told you about OM's account in her love bank not having the time to be withdrawn, since contact ended abruptly. She said, "I know, Jennifer and I have talked about this."<p>Here's another thing to think about that makes this so crummy. Jenn and I talked about this. Men can generally have sexual relationships with several women at the same time. Women tend to have sexual relations with the one person they have an emotional relationship at that time, and not typically anyone else. My needs, sexual and other, were not met for so many years because my wife's primary relationship was OM. Having that kind of relationship with me would have been cheating on him, the one she loved. Never mind the fact that she and I were the ones married to each other then, her relationship with OM was the most important one. THAT is hard to consider and not be resentful.<p>Yeah, the no progress thing is hard to accept. After confessing the affair, my wife told me my balance in her love bank was negative. Remember, this is after 15 months of Plan A. And my LB frequency is probably once per month, and not anywhere as knockdown/dragout as yours. If at any time in the past two years I considered throwing in the towel, it was at that one moment she confessed that to me. I felt like I had literally wasted two years of my life.<p>I honestly think you and wife can recover faster than I. For my wife to come out of WD, and set aside her feelings for OM, will probably still take months. Your recovery is much more in your own hands. It is dependent on your LB'ing, and how well you Plan A. I think your wife's affair, if there ever was one, was long ago, short-lived, and didn't really have the emotional attachment that my wifes, or HoFS had.<p>Three days to you. Let's make it four. You are doing well, my friend. I read your posts to others too, and think to myself "hey, he's got it." You just need some time now, some repeatition, making the things you're doing now that require deliberate thought process into natural habits. Keep it up.

quote:
----------------------------------------------------Well, I have to admit that I'm glad she told me that. But, (Deep Down) there is a part of me that wants HER to take SOME of the responsibility for our downfall, too!
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HT That is an issue I have struggled with reading SAA. It seems the WS returned in the book only because her OM was no lonter interested. It seemed there was never any achnowledgement and repentance on the WS' part. That would be hard for me to live with. <p>As for me - my most serious LB's in the past were in how I responded to her anger. W has huge anger issues and issues with parents that seem to overwhelm and bury her. As this slowly took over - she became more and more angry and I responded poorly to her anger. I have identified and apologized for my serious LB's and have not responded in those ways since May no matter how severe her anger gets towards me or the children. I realized I share responsibility in many ways. Yet it would be hard if she continued to take no share of responsibility. <p>Like tonight - she really unleashed at both children for making a noise/show of frustration that she makes reguarly. She really lashed into them for how intolerant she is of that behavior and how angry it makes her - I am biting my lip to not point out that they are merely copying her behavior. I successfully avoided letting that LB slip out. But it's still hard.<p>P, Let us know how your dinner goes.<p>~ Luc

Luc,
DO we have the same profile ? ... LOL !!!. I cohabitat also w/ WW and have 2 D, I have to bite my tounge most of the day when she is around. While she is fence sitting you can do nothing but keep plan A'ng. Be very PTC and address her issue(s). For recovery, don't think too much of it now and focus on plan A. She is reponsible for your love, it is her turn later to work on it on recovery.

R-H,<p>We might have the same profile. I liked your quote - I just wrote it down and put it by my computer.<p>I also went to your thread to the signs of an A. Not fun reading all those though I am aware of all the trails that lead that way. Haven't quite figured out how to brings things into the light. That I am still brainstorming.<p>Weekends are always tough for me as I am home with the children the whole time and lots of unanswered questions that always seem to keep me feeling internally sick. <p>~ Luc

R-H,<p>We might have the same profile. I liked your quote - I just wrote it down and put it by my computer.<p>I also went to your thread to the signs of an A. Not fun reading all those though I am aware of all the trails that lead that way. Haven't quite figured out how to brings things into the light. That I am still brainstorming.<p>Weekends are always tough for me as I am home with the children the whole time and lots of unanswered questions that always seem to keep me feeling internally sick. <p>~ Luc

Luc,
I am also sick once in a while under stress of this M, my stomach could not take it. I have to get medication. I bring my 2 D w/ me to skiing trip w/o WW, she refuses to go. She says she will house & cat sitter ... I doesn't bother me no more, I have fun and I will celebrate my Christmas & BDay away from WW. I wish she is w/ me but again it might spoil my vacation like she always to manage. Do stuff like you are single dad minus any relations or looking for one, it helps me a lot. I do not try to find answer anymore I know it wasn't me and that is good enough. If WW comes back from the fog, she could tell me in person. Your kids deserve better than staying home, bring them out, walk to the park or something. Invent new activities w/ them.

Redhat:<p>How was your skiing trip with your 2 D?<p>We all leave tomorrow for a trip to family though W is staying with a different relative than where I and our 2 children are staying. <p>You are right - the more I can focus on being a single dad the better. It's just hard to be lost in the middle between being married and being single. I cannot engage single parent activities yet I cannot enjoy a married relationship - so it just goes on and on. <p>But I am doing way more fun activities with the children than I ever used to - and W certainly has noticed that - which is a welcome departure from my overly serious personality.<p>Have a happy new year. Talk to you after the weekend.
~ Luc

Luc,
My 2 D enjoy every minutes of it. The older one misses her mom and call her up (2nd day). WW turned off her cell ... w/ OM. WW does no contact at all and turned off her cell. Otherwise they have a blast, they do marathon lifts, they finished 20+ lifts for today. For me is a time for grieving, I intentionally take this trip for myself knowing that WW will go w/ OM during the holiday & my B-Day. I need to let my tears dried up, I never let her have the luxury to see it and joke about it to OM. My 2 D need my strength. We just finished celebrating my Bday- 39 y/o, w/ my 2 D and family friends, no WW. Tomorrow is the last day of skiing before we head out back home. I will join my 2 D to do marathon lifts !. I know they will cherish that moment in their life, I try to make "kodak" moments in their life that they could tell their grand children about. <p>But I am doing way more fun activities with the children than I ever used to - and W certainly has noticed that - which is a welcome departure from my overly serious personality.
Part of plan A [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] , shock them w/ changes, any changes so that W notice other changes in "issue(s)". Good work.<p>About exposing A, patience, it will help to let A dies naturally but nothing to do with your plan A. Keep plan A'ng ... that is the priority for now. Start snooping if you have spare time, sleuthing if you have spare money. Your W is getting hook on addiction, addiction to OM. She knows it is wrong so to make it easier for her she asks for sparation or Dv. Don't fall for it.<p>IMVHO, I would of fired your MC. Any MC that tells you to filed Dv should be hang. This is a traditional MC, more worry about you than your M. They try to rationalize and help your mental health at any cost including your M. Guess what ?, you will be fine for a while but not for the rest of your life and the rest of your W life, not to mention your 2 D's life. They try to cure the symptom but not the cause. I really question his integrity if he knows MB w/o SAA. If he cost you more than $145/hr, call MB !. or call every single MC in town and ask about MB and quize them about plan A.<p>Have fun on your trip and behave ... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

Hey, Luc!<p>How are things going? I decided to check in on you, and it occured to me that you should read the latest post by JL to P, on P's thread. He put in a link to a thread that deals with a WS's road to recovery. I (personally) found it to be very enlightening! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Also, if you get a chance, stop by the EN's Forum, and read my latest posts. I'd like your responses to them. <p>Take care, God Bless, and Happy New Year!<p>HT

RH - <p>Finally checking back in after the travels. We all went to visit family but stayed in separate places and I did a major LB on the way home as I was so frustrated by how the trip went and how W would not converse on the trip but "slept" with headphones on and a hat pulled over her eyes. The last hour of the trip - a minor incident sparked a LB from me and she blew up - started hitting me while I was driving. <p>Anyway - surprised her last night as she left for New Years thinking the other three of us would stay home - but instead I took the children to an all nighter at a rec center and we had a great night and got back at noon today. She left several surprise messages at the house wondering at what all we did. Though she has not returned as her "girl" friend who she spends so much time with is supposedly moving across the country so they are getting together for a last time to go out together. This should be encouraging to me perhaps, but it doesn't make it any less painful tonight!<p>Your ski trip sounded wonderful!<p>~ Luc

Luc,
My kii trip was wonderful except I had an accident at the end of the trip and wreck my car. I still counting my blessing that I still breathing and kicking on plan A. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
Finally checking back in after the travels. We all went to visit family but stayed in separate places and I did a major LB on the way home as I was so frustrated by how the trip went and how W would not converse on the trip but "slept" with headphones on and a hat pulled over her eyes. The last hour of the trip - a minor incident sparked a LB from me and she blew up - started hitting me while I was driving. <p>Good job, Luc. LB once in a while is not bad, as long as it is not a pattern of offense. Just do activity that you could enjoy w/ your kid. Let her do her A and thinking about what she is missing ... her family !!!. Specially when OM LB'ed. Hang in there and get med if it is too painfull.<p>[ January 02, 2002: Message edited by: redhat ]</p>

RH - <p>Where did everyone go? Could you give me some tips on what other forums I should visit?<p>~ LUC [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Luc:
<strong>RH - <p>Where did everyone go? Could you give me some tips on what other forums I should visit?<p>~ LUC [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>GQ II is the faster moving forum. Probably every one get the holiday blues, loosing some energy or still on vacation.<p>Why ? get lonely ? ... I am getting busy with loading more on my kid activity. My youngest wants to be baptist and want to join Awana. Strange thing this little angle was the one who bring me back to the church, she wanted to join Christmas play [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . Today, the first sermon of the year they passed around the calendar for this half of the year and they have an AACC (American Association of Christian Conselor) conseling class on the same day as Awana. I follow HIM to bring me to where ever HE wants me to go. I know HE is in charge.